Baby Joseph’s lawyer dropped from case: prayer vigils planned

LifeSiteNews ^ | 3/1/11 | Patrick B. Craine

[kaila]

no.
However,this is not assisted suicide, the baby is already dead.
You can blow air into a corpse via a ventilator for a long time.
The person looks alive as the ventilator is blowing air into him, but the patient is dead.

He has occasional spontaneous eyelid opening and movements of his lower extremities. His pupils do

not react to light and he has neither visual fixation nor following. His brainstem reflexes are

either abnormal or absent. He exhibits limb withdrawal to pain, but no purposeful response to

pain. He demonstrates facial grimacing with secretions and stimulation (i.e. suctioning,

repositioning, changing diaper). In summary, his neurological examination remains grossly

abnormal and the clinical findings reflect a severe and widespread neurological injury. JM has

failed removal of the breathing tube previously requiring replacement (November 8-11, 2010).

He remains on a ventilator with a background rate. Many attempts have been made to allow

him to breathe spontaneously on the ventilator; however, within short periods of time, the

ventilator reverts to a backup rate due to prolonged periods without breaths.”

Why dont you show your pulmonologist father in law this report?

[kaila]

This baby is not American.
This is not euthanasia it is letting a dead baby off the ventilator, and avoiding unneccasry surgery.

[wagglebee]

However,this is not assisted suicide, the baby is already dead.

You are basing this on nothing more than your opinion, it IS NOT based on ANYTHING in the report you posted.

Why dont you show your pulmonologist father in law this report?

I did, he's of the opinion that Baby Joseph may very well die within a few months, but that he can live without the ventilator as long as he has the tracheotomy.

[trisham]

You’re in the wrong profession. Have you ever considered becoming a mortician?

[BykrBayb]

Is this the only baby you take this position on, or would you hold the position in regards to American babies?

Show me the death certificate. You can’t, because you’re lying. This is not a dead baby. He is alive. You’re advocating killing him.

You used the argument that illegal aliens are entitled to have all of their health care paid for by Americans at the expense of the lives of Americans. I just want to know how you can justify such an opinion.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

You lost the debate, so now you’re lashing out. That’s not surprising, nurse.

[wagglebee]

This baby is not American.

What does Baby Joseph's nationality have to do with ANYTHING?

NOBODY is suggesting that the American taxpayers pay for his care, NOBODY.

YOU are trying to make this about money and in my experience this is almost always done to divert attention from the culture of death's actual agenda.

If you want me to quit comparing you to the culture of death quit repeating their talking points; until then, deal with it.

“This person suffering from hereditary defects

costs the people 60,000 Reichmarks during his lifetime.

People, that is your money. Read ‘New People’.”

[Brian Kopp DPM]

However,this is not assisted suicide, the baby is already dead.

You can blow air into a corpse via a ventilator for a long time.

The person looks alive as the ventilator is blowing air into him, but the patient is dead.

This is just propaganda, and quite a poor attempt at that, Nurse Mengele. If you truly believe this, I truly feel sorry for you.

[kaila]

“”You used the argument that illegal aliens are entitled to have all of their health care paid for by Americans at the expense of the lives of Americans. I just want to know how you can justify such an opinion.”

No, I was using that as an example. People want to bring this baby to an American hospital. I am against that. It is the same as bringing in illegals to take advantage of our healthcare. I am against that, too.
The people who want this baby transported here do not see the difference. On one hand, they are against illegals using our healthcare. On the other hand, they want to bring this child here. It does not compute.

This decision on American babies and adults happens everyday in hospitals.We cannot keep dead people alive on ventilators, it would bankrupt this country even further.

This child cannot be declared dead until they remove him from the ventilator.He would then stop breathing.You can keep a dead person alive on a ventilator. Take for instance organ donors. They are dead, but on a ventilator until donation surgery.So there is no death certificate yet.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

somehow you are all resistent to paying for healthcare for illegals.

Actually, I treat illegal aliens on a regular basis, and I only charge them what they can afford.

I think you're projecting your own bias on us.

[kaila]

You lost the debate, so now you’re lashing out. That’s not surprising, nurse

No, you all lost the debate.
Do you all realize how ridiculous your arguments are?
I know medical people, and they agree with me on this case.
Quite a few of posts on this subject here have been full of inaccuracies, that somehow a trach will make this baby better.
I do not post much on FR, but I am a monthly donor.
However, when I see posts that are just out of whack, I tend to debate on them.

[kaila]

Actually, I treat illegal aliens on a regular basis, and I only charge them what they can afford.

Wow, I did not know podiatrists took ER call.
If you actually walked into an ER, you would see them there, on American taxpayer dollars paying for their treatment.
You are insulated from that.

[wagglebee]

People want to bring this baby to an American hospital. I am against that. It is the same as bringing in illegals to take advantage of our healthcare. I am against that, too.

NOBODY is asking for American taxpayers to pay for Baby Joseph's care. You have offered ZERO PROOF of your claim and you are doing it to divert attention from the real issue.

Canadians who are sick of the Canadian health care system come to America and pay for medical care EVERY DAY. There no similarity between this and illegals using ERs for free.

The people who want this baby transported here do not see the difference. On one hand, they are against illegals using our healthcare. On the other hand, they want to bring this child here. It does not compute.

No, it is YOU who doesn't see the difference. There are NO LAWS against people from any country coming to America and paying for health care out of their own pockets and I've never seen ANYONE suggest that they shouldn't be allowed to.

YOU are making money an issue where it isn't.

This decision on American babies and adults happens everyday in hospitals.We cannot keep dead people alive on ventilators, it would bankrupt this country even further.

Unless you can provide documentation that the American taxpayers would be asked to pay for Baby Joseph's care, your statement is meaningless.

This child cannot be declared dead until they remove him from the ventilator.He would then stop breathing.

NOWHERE in the medical report you posted does it make this claim; in fact it says this:

Dr. F discussed the condition of ZM, the sister of JM, who died in infancy after a prolonged stay at LHSC. He said that her MRI and MRS were remarkably similar to those completed on JM. He said that Dr. S was involved in ZM's case and that the doctors reluctantly agreed to give her a tracheostomy and send her home.

Baby Joseph's sister survived for SIX MONTHS with her tracheotomy.

[EternalVigilance]

New tagline...

[Brian Kopp DPM]

You’re offering facts to a euthanasia zealot. That don’t want to hear facts. In their sick mind, this baby is already dead. May God have Mercy on them.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

Quite a few of posts on this subject here have been full of inaccuracies, that somehow a trach will make this baby better.

Actually, nobody has claimed that on this thread. The only claim that has been made is that a trach will permit the child to breathe on his own, without a vent, so he can go home to die a natural death, not "get better."

I called Priests For Life yesterday. They already have all the private funding lined up to care for this baby. If he is brought to the USA, it will not cost you or any other taxpayer a penny. So stop your whining about illegal aliens or costs. Christian conservatives will foot the bill, not you or the government.

[wagglebee]

Beautiful tagline!

[wagglebee]

I called Priests For Life yesterday. They already have all the private funding lined up to care for this baby. If he is brought to the USA, it will not cost you or any other taxpayer a penny. So stop your whining about illegal aliens or costs. Christian conservatives will foot the bill, not you or the government.

I've been saying this for a week. Priests for Life would not offer to pay for Baby Joseph's care if they didn't have the funding.

Hell, I said on this very thread yesterday that if the hospital is unwilling to give him a tracheotomy due to the cost that I would be happy to give them a credit card over the phone.

I think the death mongers have determined that their best course of action with conservatives is to try to make it about money. What they don't understand is that conservatives care more about human life than they do about money.

[DJ MacWoW]

but I am a monthly donor.

So am I. What's your point.

[BykrBayb]

We cannot keep dead people alive on ventilators

That's right. We can't. Dead people are dead. Live people are alive. There are no zombies hanging around, pretending to be alive. If you see someone moving on their own, or reacting in any way to their environment, that person is alive.

Until you develop a basic understanding of this simple fact, you will remain incapable of understanding any of the more complicated issues involved. At the rate you're going, I don't think you'll ever understand the concept of right and wrong as it pertains to caring for or killing vulnerable people.