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USS Ronald Reagan Moved After Detecting Radioactive Plume (Took 1 Months Radiation in 1 Hour)
ABC News ^ | March 14, 2011 | LUIS MARTINEZ

Posted on 03/14/2011 2:11:19 AM PDT by buccaneer81

USS Ronald Reagan Moved After Detecting Radioactive Plume Off Japan Ship's Crew Was Exposed to Low Level of Radiation

By LUIS MARTINEZ March 14, 2011

The aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan and other US Navy ships in the waters off the quake zone in eastern Japan were repositioned after the detection of a low-level radiation plume from the troubled Fukushima nuclear plant located 100 miles away.

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; Government; Japan
KEYWORDS: japanearthquake; navair; nukeplants; radiation; shipmovement; usnavy; ussronaldreagan
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1 posted on 03/14/2011 2:11:23 AM PDT by buccaneer81
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To: buccaneer81

abc news. Norks?


2 posted on 03/14/2011 2:18:35 AM PDT by allmost
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To: buccaneer81

Do they have dosiometers on the ship?I know that they have wearable ones for the engine crew ,but is there one on the bridge as well?


3 posted on 03/14/2011 2:22:41 AM PDT by cavador ("Self determination is not a malfunction"!(Harkness;Fallout 3 Rivet City 2077))
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To: allmost

I read earlier that the Norks were sent a note over the weekend telling them to behave extra nice while these events are taking place, lest there be any misunderstandings.


4 posted on 03/14/2011 2:24:37 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: buccaneer81

I want to read where the naysayers state a nuke US aircraft carrier can’t distinguish between a cloud of radiation and background radiation. I’m surprised but glad it was reported i.e. the reason for repositioning.


5 posted on 03/14/2011 2:25:00 AM PDT by Razzz42
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To: buccaneer81

I am thinkiing two different ways on this

I am surprised they released that much news

or

it was released to help setup a crisis here


6 posted on 03/14/2011 2:25:03 AM PDT by SF_Redux (Sarah stands for accountablility and personal responsiblity, democrats can't live with that)
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To: buccaneer81

A small positive light.


7 posted on 03/14/2011 2:33:49 AM PDT by allmost
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To: buccaneer81

Last I heard, the wind was blowing north. Am I incorrect in thinking the USS Reagan wouldn’t have located north of the disaster zone?

If it was South of the nuclear reactors, how could that radiation have wafted over 100 miles in it’s direction?

This sounds a little fishy.


8 posted on 03/14/2011 2:34:10 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Here's the proof of Obama's U. S. citizenship: " " Good enough for our 3 branches...)
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To: cavador

Sensing & Detection
Chemical, Biological, Radiation and Nuclear detection systems are sensor systems used to detect environmental conditions in air and water. Hamilton Sundstrand offers a palate of equipment comprising a Chemical Biological Mass Spectrometer (CBMS), a Total Ozone Mass Spectrometer (TOMS), a Major Constituent Analyzer (MCA), a Wide Field Imaging Spectrometer and several Gas Process Analyzers. Several of these systems are currently in use on submarine and space platforms and are directly applicable to use of surface ships.


9 posted on 03/14/2011 2:40:55 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: buccaneer81

Along with reliable sources such as the IAEA and WNN updates, there is an incredible amount of misinformation and hyperbole flying around the internet and media right now about the Fukushima nuclear reactor situation. In the BNC post Discussion Thread – Japanese nuclear reactors and the 11 March 2011 earthquake (and in the many comments that attend the top post), a lot of technical detail is provided, as well as regular updates. But what about a layman’s summary? How do most people get a grasp on what is happening, why, and what the consequences will be?
Below I reproduce a summary on the situation prepared by Dr Josef Oehmen, a research scientist at MIT, in Boston. He is a PhD Scientist, whose father has extensive experience in Germany’s nuclear industry. This was first posted by Jason Morgan earlier this evening, and he has kindly allowed me to reproduce it here. I think it is very important that this information be widely understood.
Please also take the time to read this: An informed public is key to acceptance of nuclear energy — it was never more relevant than now.
———————————
I am writing this text (Mar 12) to give you some peace of mind regarding some of the troubles in Japan, that is the safety of Japan’s nuclear reactors. Up front, the situation is serious, but under control. And this text is long! But you will know more about nuclear power plants after reading it than all journalists on this planet put together.
There was and will *not* be any significant release of radioactivity.
By “significant” I mean a level of radiation of more than what you would receive on – say – a long distance flight, or drinking a glass of beer that comes from certain areas with high levels of natural background radiation.
I have been reading every news release on the incident since the earthquake. There has not been one single (!) report that was accurate and free of errors (and part of that problem is also a weakness in the Japanese crisis communication). By “not free of errors” I do not refer to tendentious anti-nuclear journalism – that is quite normal these days. By “not free of errors” I mean blatant errors regarding physics and natural law, as well as gross misinterpretation of facts, due to an obvious lack of fundamental and basic understanding of the way nuclear reactors are build and operated. I have read a 3 page report on CNN where every single paragraph contained an error.
We will have to cover some fundamentals, before we get into what is going on.
Construction of the Fukushima nuclear power plants
The plants at Fukushima are so called Boiling Water Reactors, or BWR for short. Boiling Water Reactors are similar to a pressure cooker. The nuclear fuel heats water, the water boils and creates steam, the steam then drives turbines that create the electricity, and the steam is then cooled and condensed back to water, and the water send back to be heated by the nuclear fuel. The pressure cooker operates at about 250 °C.
The nuclear fuel is uranium oxide. Uranium oxide is a ceramic with a very high melting point of about 3000 °C. The fuel is manufactured in pellets (think little cylinders the size of Lego bricks). Those pieces are then put into a long tube made of Zircaloy with a melting point of 2200 °C, and sealed tight. The assembly is called a fuel rod. These fuel rods are then put together to form larger packages, and a number of these packages are then put into the reactor. All these packages together are referred to as “the core”.
The Zircaloy casing is the first containment. It separates the radioactive fuel from the rest of the world.
The core is then placed in the “pressure vessels”. That is the pressure cooker we talked about before. The pressure vessels is the second containment. This is one sturdy piece of a pot, designed to safely contain the core for temperatures several hundred °C. That covers the scenarios where cooling can be restored at some point.
The entire “hardware” of the nuclear reactor – the pressure vessel and all pipes, pumps, coolant (water) reserves, are then encased in the third containment. The third containment is a hermetically (air tight) sealed, very thick bubble of the strongest steel. The third containment is designed, built and tested for one single purpose: To contain, indefinitely, a complete core meltdown. For that purpose, a large and thick concrete basin is cast under the pressure vessel (the second containment), which is filled with graphite, all inside the third containment. This is the so-called “core catcher”. If the core melts and the pressure vessel bursts (and eventually melts), it will catch the molten fuel and everything else. It is built in such a way that the nuclear fuel will be spread out, so it can cool down.
This third containment is then surrounded by the reactor building. The reactor building is an outer shell that is supposed to keep the weather out, but nothing in. (this is the part that was damaged in the explosion, but more to that later).
Fundamentals of nuclear reactions
The uranium fuel generates heat by nuclear fission. Big uranium atoms are split into smaller atoms. That generates heat plus neutrons (one of the particles that forms an atom). When the neutron hits another uranium atom, that splits, generating more neutrons and so on. That is called the nuclear chain reaction.
Now, just packing a lot of fuel rods next to each other would quickly lead to overheating and after about 45 minutes to a melting of the fuel rods. It is worth mentioning at this point that the nuclear fuel in a reactor can *never* cause a nuclear explosion the type of a nuclear bomb. Building a nuclear bomb is actually quite difficult (ask Iran). In Chernobyl, the explosion was caused by excessive pressure buildup, hydrogen explosion and rupture of all containments, propelling molten core material into the environment (a “dirty bomb”). Why that did not and will not happen in Japan, further below.
In order to control the nuclear chain reaction, the reactor operators use so-called “control rods”. The control rods absorb the neutrons and kill the chain reaction instantaneously. A nuclear reactor is built in such a way, that when operating normally, you take out all the control rods. The coolant water then takes away the heat (and converts it into steam and electricity) at the same rate as the core produces it. And you have a lot of leeway around the standard operating point of 250°C.
The challenge is that after inserting the rods and stopping the chain reaction, the core still keeps producing heat. The uranium “stopped” the chain reaction. But a number of intermediate radioactive elements are created by the uranium during its fission process, most notably Cesium and Iodine isotopes, i.e. radioactive versions of these elements that will eventually split up into smaller atoms and not be radioactive anymore. Those elements keep decaying and producing heat. Because they are not regenerated any longer from the uranium (the uranium stopped decaying after the control rods were put in), they get less and less, and so the core cools down over a matter of days, until those intermediate radioactive elements are used up.
This residual heat is causing the headaches right now.
So the first “type” of radioactive material is the uranium in the fuel rods, plus the intermediate radioactive elements that the uranium splits into, also inside the fuel rod (Cesium and Iodine).
There is a second type of radioactive material created, outside the fuel rods. The big main difference up front: Those radioactive materials have a very short half-life, that means that they decay very fast and split into non-radioactive materials. By fast I mean seconds. So if these radioactive materials are released into the environment, yes, radioactivity was released, but no, it is not dangerous, at all. Why? By the time you spelled “R-A-D-I-O-N-U-C-L-I-D-E”, they will be harmless, because they will have split up into non radioactive elements. Those radioactive elements are N-16, the radioactive isotope (or version) of nitrogen (air). The others are noble gases such as Xenon. But where do they come from? When the uranium splits, it generates a neutron (see above). Most of these neutrons will hit other uranium atoms and keep the nuclear chain reaction going. But some will leave the fuel rod and hit the water molecules, or the air that is in the water. Then, a non-radioactive element can “capture” the neutron. It becomes radioactive. As described above, it will quickly (seconds) get rid again of the neutron to return to its former beautiful self.
This second “type” of radiation is very important when we talk about the radioactivity being released into the environment later on.
What happened at Fukushima
I will try to summarize the main facts. The earthquake that hit Japan was 7 times more powerful than the worst earthquake the nuclear power plant was built for (the Richter scale works logarithmically; the difference between the 8.2 that the plants were built for and the 8.9 that happened is 7 times, not 0.7). So the first hooray for Japanese engineering, everything held up.
When the earthquake hit with 8.9, the nuclear reactors all went into automatic shutdown. Within seconds after the earthquake started, the control rods had been inserted into the core and nuclear chain reaction of the uranium stopped. Now, the cooling system has to carry away the residual heat. The residual heat load is about 3% of the heat load under normal operating conditions.
The earthquake destroyed the external power supply of the nuclear reactor. That is one of the most serious accidents for a nuclear power plant, and accordingly, a “plant black out” receives a lot of attention when designing backup systems. The power is needed to keep the coolant pumps working. Since the power plant had been shut down, it cannot produce any electricity by itself any more.
Things were going well for an hour. One set of multiple sets of emergency Diesel power generators kicked in and provided the electricity that was needed. Then the Tsunami came, much bigger than people had expected when building the power plant (see above, factor 7). The tsunami took out all multiple sets of backup Diesel generators.
When designing a nuclear power plant, engineers follow a philosophy called “Defense of Depth”. That means that you first build everything to withstand the worst catastrophe you can imagine, and then design the plant in such a way that it can still handle one system failure (that you thought could never happen) after the other. A tsunami taking out all backup power in one swift strike is such a scenario. The last line of defense is putting everything into the third containment (see above), that will keep everything, whatever the mess, control rods in our out, core molten or not, inside the reactor.
When the diesel generators were gone, the reactor operators switched to emergency battery power. The batteries were designed as one of the backups to the backups, to provide power for cooling the core for 8 hours. And they did.
Within the 8 hours, another power source had to be found and connected to the power plant. The power grid was down due to the earthquake. The diesel generators were destroyed by the tsunami. So mobile diesel generators were trucked in.
This is where things started to go seriously wrong. The external power generators could not be connected to the power plant (the plugs did not fit). So after the batteries ran out, the residual heat could not be carried away any more.
At this point the plant operators begin to follow emergency procedures that are in place for a “loss of cooling event”. It is again a step along the “Depth of Defense” lines. The power to the cooling systems should never have failed completely, but it did, so they “retreat” to the next line of defense. All of this, however shocking it seems to us, is part of the day-to-day training you go through as an operator, right through to managing a core meltdown.
It was at this stage that people started to talk about core meltdown. Because at the end of the day, if cooling cannot be restored, the core will eventually melt (after hours or days), and the last line of defense, the core catcher and third containment, would come into play.
But the goal at this stage was to manage the core while it was heating up, and ensure that the first containment (the Zircaloy tubes that contains the nuclear fuel), as well as the second containment (our pressure cooker) remain intact and operational for as long as possible, to give the engineers time to fix the cooling systems.
Because cooling the core is such a big deal, the reactor has a number of cooling systems, each in multiple versions (the reactor water cleanup system, the decay heat removal, the reactor core isolating cooling, the standby liquid cooling system, and the emergency core cooling system). Which one failed when or did not fail is not clear at this point in time.
So imagine our pressure cooker on the stove, heat on low, but on. The operators use whatever cooling system capacity they have to get rid of as much heat as possible, but the pressure starts building up. The priority now is to maintain integrity of the first containment (keep temperature of the fuel rods below 2200°C), as well as the second containment, the pressure cooker. In order to maintain integrity of the pressure cooker (the second containment), the pressure has to be released from time to time. Because the ability to do that in an emergency is so important, the reactor has 11 pressure release valves. The operators now started venting steam from time to time to control the pressure. The temperature at this stage was about 550°C.
This is when the reports about “radiation leakage” starting coming in. I believe I explained above why venting the steam is theoretically the same as releasing radiation into the environment, but why it was and is not dangerous. The radioactive nitrogen as well as the noble gases do not pose a threat to human health.

At some stage during this venting, the explosion occurred. The explosion took place outside of the third containment (our “last line of defense”), and the reactor building. Remember that the reactor building has no function in keeping the radioactivity contained. It is not entirely clear yet what has happened, but this is the likely scenario: The operators decided to vent the steam from the pressure vessel not directly into the environment, but into the space between the third containment and the reactor building (to give the radioactivity in the steam more time to subside). The problem is that at the high temperatures that the core had reached at this stage, water molecules can “disassociate” into oxygen and hydrogen – an explosive mixture. And it did explode, outside the third containment, damaging the reactor building around. It was that sort of explosion, but inside the pressure vessel (because it was badly designed and not managed properly by the operators) that lead to the explosion of Chernobyl. This was never a risk at Fukushima. The problem of hydrogen-oxygen formation is one of the biggies when you design a power plant (if you are not Soviet, that is), so the reactor is build and operated in a way it cannot happen inside the containment. It happened outside, which was not intended but a possible scenario and OK, because it did not pose a risk for the containment.
So the pressure was under control, as steam was vented. Now, if you keep boiling your pot, the problem is that the water level will keep falling and falling. The core is covered by several meters of water in order to allow for some time to pass (hours, days) before it gets exposed. Once the rods start to be exposed at the top, the exposed parts will reach the critical temperature of 2200 °C after about 45 minutes. This is when the first containment, the Zircaloy tube, would fail.
And this started to happen. The cooling could not be restored before there was some (very limited, but still) damage to the casing of some of the fuel. The nuclear material itself was still intact, but the surrounding Zircaloy shell had started melting. What happened now is that some of the byproducts of the uranium decay – radioactive Cesium and Iodine – started to mix with the steam. The big problem, uranium, was still under control, because the uranium oxide rods were good until 3000 °C. It is confirmed that a very small amount of Cesium and Iodine was measured in the steam that was released into the atmosphere.
It seems this was the “go signal” for a major plan B. The small amounts of Cesium that were measured told the operators that the first containment on one of the rods somewhere was about to give. The Plan A had been to restore one of the regular cooling systems to the core. Why that failed is unclear. One plausible explanation is that the tsunami also took away / polluted all the clean water needed for the regular cooling systems.
The water used in the cooling system is very clean, demineralized (like distilled) water. The reason to use pure water is the above mentioned activation by the neutrons from the Uranium: Pure water does not get activated much, so stays practically radioactive-free. Dirt or salt in the water will absorb the neutrons quicker, becoming more radioactive. This has no effect whatsoever on the core – it does not care what it is cooled by. But it makes life more difficult for the operators and mechanics when they have to deal with activated (i.e. slightly radioactive) water.
But Plan A had failed – cooling systems down or additional clean water unavailable – so Plan B came into effect. This is what it looks like happened:
In order to prevent a core meltdown, the operators started to use sea water to cool the core. I am not quite sure if they flooded our pressure cooker with it (the second containment), or if they flooded the third containment, immersing the pressure cooker. But that is not relevant for us.
The point is that the nuclear fuel has now been cooled down. Because the chain reaction has been stopped a long time ago, there is only very little residual heat being produced now. The large amount of cooling water that has been used is sufficient to take up that heat. Because it is a lot of water, the core does not produce sufficient heat any more to produce any significant pressure. Also, boric acid has been added to the seawater. Boric acid is “liquid control rod”. Whatever decay is still going on, the Boron will capture the neutrons and further speed up the cooling down of the core.
The plant came close to a core meltdown. Here is the worst-case scenario that was avoided: If the seawater could not have been used for treatment, the operators would have continued to vent the water steam to avoid pressure buildup. The third containment would then have been completely sealed to allow the core meltdown to happen without releasing radioactive material. After the meltdown, there would have been a waiting period for the intermediate radioactive materials to decay inside the reactor, and all radioactive particles to settle on a surface inside the containment. The cooling system would have been restored eventually, and the molten core cooled to a manageable temperature. The containment would have been cleaned up on the inside. Then a messy job of removing the molten core from the containment would have begun, packing the (now solid again) fuel bit by bit into transportation containers to be shipped to processing plants. Depending on the damage, the block of the plant would then either be repaired or dismantled.
Now, where does that leave us?
• The plant is safe now and will stay safe.
• Japan is looking at an INES Level 4 Accident: Nuclear accident with local consequences. That is bad for the company that owns the plant, but not for anyone else.
• Some radiation was released when the pressure vessel was vented. All radioactive isotopes from the activated steam have gone (decayed). A very small amount of Cesium was released, as well as Iodine. If you were sitting on top of the plants’ chimney when they were venting, you should probably give up smoking to return to your former life expectancy. The Cesium and Iodine isotopes were carried out to the sea and will never be seen again.
• There was some limited damage to the first containment. That means that some amounts of radioactive Cesium and Iodine will also be released into the cooling water, but no Uranium or other nasty stuff (the Uranium oxide does not “dissolve” in the water). There are facilities for treating the cooling water inside the third containment. The radioactive Cesium and Iodine will be removed there and eventually stored as radioactive waste in terminal storage.
• The seawater used as cooling water will be activated to some degree. Because the control rods are fully inserted, the Uranium chain reaction is not happening. That means the “main” nuclear reaction is not happening, thus not contributing to the activation. The intermediate radioactive materials (Cesium and Iodine) are also almost gone at this stage, because the Uranium decay was stopped a long time ago. This further reduces the activation. The bottom line is that there will be some low level of activation of the seawater, which will also be removed by the treatment facilities.
• The seawater will then be replaced over time with the “normal” cooling water
• The reactor core will then be dismantled and transported to a processing facility, just like during a regular fuel change.
• Fuel rods and the entire plant will be checked for potential damage. This will take about 4-5 years.
• The safety systems on all Japanese plants will be upgraded to withstand a 9.0 earthquake and tsunami (or worse)
• I believe the most significant problem will be a prolonged power shortage. About half of Japan’s nuclear reactors will probably have to be inspected, reducing the nation’s power generating capacity by 15%. This will probably be covered by running gas power plants that are usually only used for peak loads to cover some of the base load as well. That will increase your electricity bill, as well as lead to potential power shortages during peak demand, in Japan.
If you want to stay informed, please forget the usual media outlets and consult the following websites:
http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Battle_to_stabilise_earthquake_reactors_1203111.html
http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/12/japan-nuclear-earthquake/
http://ansnuclearcafe.org/2011/03/11/media-updates-on-nuclear-power-stations-in-japan/


10 posted on 03/14/2011 2:50:46 AM PDT by Elkiejg (Democrats/Liberals/progressives are EVIL!!)
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To: DoughtyOne

The US Seventh Fleet Facebook page says that Reagan was operating 100 miles northeast of the nuke plants when the exposure took place.


11 posted on 03/14/2011 2:50:51 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: Elkiejg

The fact remains that USS Ronald Reagan was 100 miles away and took a dose of radiation that was well above the norm. That would seem to make a PhD sitting in Cambridge look rather foolish for writing the book that you posted.


12 posted on 03/14/2011 2:56:59 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: All

marked


13 posted on 03/14/2011 3:01:41 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (I will not, under any circumstances, vote for Mitt Romney....none.)
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To: DoughtyOne; allmost; SF_Redux; All

*
o
From USS Ronald Reagan Commanding Officer:

Family & Friends of USS Ronald Reagan:
...
I want to take this opportunity to personally assure you that first
and foremost all personnel aboard the USS Ronald Reagan are safe and
healthy.

During our mission to assist our close allies of Japan, we were
operating near the radioactive plume from Fukushima Dai-Ichi Nuclear
Power Plant. As you may have already heard, radioactivity was detected
on 17 personnel from our ship, however, we promptly took the proper
precautions and the radioactivity was easily removed by using soap and
water. The levels that were detected were very low levels.
To put this into perspective, the maximum radiation dose received was
equal to the amount of natural background radiation one would receive in
one month from sources such as rocks, soil and the sun.

Ronald Reagan has since repositioned away from the Fukushima Dai-Ichi
Nuclear Power Plant.

As a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, we have extensive technical
expertise onboard to properly monitor such types of risks, and if
necessary, rapidly resolve the situation.

We have taken all the necessary precautions to ensure that everyone is
safe. We have closely monitored spaces, evaluated everyone who has flown
or worked on the flight deck and cleaned the aircraft.

I have not seen any levels of radiation or contamination that would
cause me to have any significant concerns at all.

As we continue to assist Japan in this terrible catastrophe, our
Sailor’s-and your loved ones’-safety will remain at the top of my
priority list.

Capt. Thom Burke
See More
28 minutes ago


14 posted on 03/14/2011 3:02:06 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: buccaneer81

Okay, then let me ask you this. The earthquake was initially thought to be very close to that exact spot. Why would you position one of your most valued assets right over a few days old 9.0 fault line?

Then you add in the wind current, the nuclear plant problem, and you can’t come up with a better position than that? Seriously?

Do they think this is Obama’s bath tub, and gee wouldn’t it be nice to see what happens if...

Strange!


15 posted on 03/14/2011 3:32:31 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Here's the proof of Obama's U. S. citizenship: " " Good enough for our 3 branches...)
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To: buccaneer81

Thank you. I appreciate the post.

Are there times when you feel like an idiot for wondering why in the sam hell anyone would do something, when they should know a lot better than you, but it seems obvious to you that common sense had no part in the decision?

Why would we possibly want to take even the the most minimal chance of contaminating the USS Ronald Reagan?

Wouldn’t you have positioned the ship down wind? Am I being unfair here?

I obviously don’t get it.


16 posted on 03/14/2011 3:37:35 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Here's the proof of Obama's U. S. citizenship: " " Good enough for our 3 branches...)
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To: buccaneer81

Very informative.


17 posted on 03/14/2011 3:43:23 AM PDT by newzjunkey
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To: buccaneer81
This is important for anyone inclined to panic:

As you may have already heard, radioactivity was detected on 17 personnel from our ship, however, we promptly took the proper precautions and the radioactivity was easily removed by using soap and water. The levels that were detected were very low levels.

18 posted on 03/14/2011 3:43:43 AM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: Elkiejg

Thanks, that was an excellent read.


19 posted on 03/14/2011 3:43:47 AM PDT by DeusExMachina05 (I will not go into Dhimmitude quietly.)
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To: buccaneer81

“I have not seen any levels of radiation or contamination that would
cause me to have any significant concerns at all.”

So thats why he repositioned the ship away from the plant,,,because there was nothing to worry about. Double-talk.


20 posted on 03/14/2011 3:45:40 AM PDT by chessplayer
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To: allmost

I read this article @ stars & stripes


21 posted on 03/14/2011 3:49:48 AM PDT by Lil Flower (American by birth. Southern by the Grace of God!)
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To: cavador
"Do they have dosiometers on the ship?I know that they have wearable ones for the engine crew ,but is there one on the bridge as well?"

I would expect that they have rad detection capability in any air-handling equipment, which is probably what alarmed. Once that happened, the health physicist types undoubtedly put film badges on "non-reactor" personnel.

22 posted on 03/14/2011 3:59:00 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: SE Mom
This part was useful as well- "To put this into perspective, the maximum radiation dose received was equal to the amount of natural background radiation one would receive in one month from sources such as rocks, soil and the sun."
23 posted on 03/14/2011 4:00:37 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Vroomfondel; SC Swamp Fox; Fred Hayek; NY Attitude; P3_Acoustic; investigateworld; lowbuck; ...
SONOBUOY PING!

Click on pic for past Navair pings.

Post or FReepmail me if you wish to be enlisted in or discharged from the Navair Pinglist.
The only requirement for inclusion in the Navair Pinglist is an interest in Naval Aviation.
This is a medium to low volume pinglist.

24 posted on 03/14/2011 4:02:56 AM PDT by magslinger (What Would Stephen Decatur Do?)
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To: chessplayer

No, it isn’t double talk. It is just logical to move the ship out of the direct path of the wind. It doesn’t mean they are scared or worried or anyone is in danger, which they are not. Just something for the media to go into a frenzy on to fill the 24 hour news cycle and try to increase ratings.


25 posted on 03/14/2011 4:08:34 AM PDT by Galactica
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To: Elkiejg

You would think the design would be along the lines of using power to keep the rods together to produce heat and once outage occures the rods would reseparate away from critical mass... much like when air goes out on a truck the breaks lock up.

The final containment pot of molten uranium, as you mention, is the ultimate “if all else fail” and would work, but I am surprized that it takes power to contain the problem. We should not have to send a guy down there to pull rods out.


26 posted on 03/14/2011 4:14:25 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrates Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: driftdiver

“To put this into perspective, the maximum radiation dose received was equal to the amount of natural background radiation one would receive in one month from sources such as rocks, soil and the sun.”

I would assume the people closer to the plant (not 100 miles away)were getting a dosage like that 24 hours per day every day. Nothing to worry about?


27 posted on 03/14/2011 4:19:00 AM PDT by chessplayer
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To: buccaneer81

Bingo.


28 posted on 03/14/2011 4:19:28 AM PDT by khnyny (What exactly is a CDO??)
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To: buccaneer81
"...Now it is true that one of the reactors was damaged. slightly damaged. But there is no danger of a meltdown..."


29 posted on 03/14/2011 4:20:25 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: Yo-Yo

30 posted on 03/14/2011 4:26:45 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: chessplayer
So thats why he repositioned the ship away from the plant,,,because there was nothing to worry about. Double-talk.

I don't think that's what the Reagan's CO was saying at all. They detected elevated (but still minimal) radiation. They executed the standard precautions (making the contaminated crew take decom showers) and moved the ship in case there was more radiation headed there way.

The Reagan has about 6000 crewmembers, so 17 represents .3% (or .003) of her crew. The ship is designed to operate in an irradiated environment, with complex radiation detection equipment, washdown equipment for both personnel and the ship itself (washdown sprayers actually built into the hull/flightdeck of the ship) and overpressure capability (keep the pressure inside the ship higher than the outside, so contaminants can't get in.

If there was a need for the ship to stay where she was, the CO would have been able to. But if there wasn't, he took the right action in not only mitigating any potential risk (emphasis on "any") but also the likelihood of bad PR.
31 posted on 03/14/2011 4:28:40 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: chessplayer

“one month from sources such as rocks, soil and the sun”

I dunno, this just doesn’t seem to be that significant.


32 posted on 03/14/2011 4:30:18 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: chessplayer
That's a chilling thought. Some of those people have possibly received several years worth of radiation already.
33 posted on 03/14/2011 4:31:25 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: chessplayer

If the “radiation” was removed with soap and water then it was not radiation but contamination. Somewhat the same thing but not entirely. Think an pile of dog crap. Contamination is the pile, radiation is the smell.


34 posted on 03/14/2011 4:34:15 AM PDT by Sursam Abordine
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To: driftdiver
I dunno, this just doesn’t seem to be that significant.

Per hour? Sounds pretty significant to me. Sit in it for a week and pick up six years worth of exposure.

35 posted on 03/14/2011 4:36:02 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: driftdiver

To those frothed by imagination into a near-panic state it seems HORRIBLE and TERRIFYING. They, sad to say MANY FReepers included, have become very destabilized in reasoning.

It’s a tell tale as to our cultures general gullibleness to emotionally-driven response. Wanna know how an Obama got elected?

Here is the dynamic of irrationality in action.


36 posted on 03/14/2011 4:38:46 AM PDT by bvw
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To: Sursam Abordine
Point is, can someone please educate PAOs and so-called news reporters to at least attempt some sort of accuracy in reporting. In the end, the hysteria caused by irresponsible reporting surrounding this issue may be worse than reality.

Remember 3-mile Island. Carter and his gang of roving idiots allowed that serious problem to become fodder for late night jokes and official policy for the last 30 years.

Don't think Obama and company will NOT use this to shutdown future nuclear plants in this country and possibly go after the ones we have.

37 posted on 03/14/2011 4:39:10 AM PDT by Sursam Abordine
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To: tanknetter

Those 17 were aircrew returning from shore. They and their helos were washed down. They were contaminated with particulate matter. But the ship also went through a zone of radioactivity.


38 posted on 03/14/2011 4:39:41 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: bvw
To those frothed by imagination into a near-panic state it seems HORRIBLE and TERRIFYING. They, sad to say MANY FReepers included, have become very destabilized in reasoning.

I see none of that on this thread. I see questions, skepticism and speculation, not "near-panic."

39 posted on 03/14/2011 4:44:01 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: DoughtyOne

I’m with you. Part of emergency planning for this type of situation is knowing which way the plume will be or is going. First thing to do is get out of the way, not sail directly into it’s path.


40 posted on 03/14/2011 4:44:44 AM PDT by Sursam Abordine
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To: buccaneer81
An average value is around 30 mrem a year, though this can be much less along the coasts, around half as much. And it can be twice as much in states such as Colorado.

If you live in certain parts of the world, like certain villages in India and Brazil that have high levels of thorium in local sands, the dose rate can be much higher. Kerala, India and Minas Garais, Brazil has rates of around 1,000 mrem a year.

-- http://www.blackcatsystems.com/GM/safe_radiation.html

If you live in Atlantic City you get about 15 mrem a year, year after year. (That's if you don't hang on the beach.)

But if you live in the coastal south-west India area of Kerala you get 67 times that day after day. In other words you get TWO MONTHS of RADIATION IN ONE DAY!

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

41 posted on 03/14/2011 4:47:32 AM PDT by bvw
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To: Razzz42

One of my best friends was a NUPOC(?) officer in the navy, he was stationed on the Abraham Lincoln her reactors were installed and went through her sea trials there. He was having problems with his hip for some reason and the Dr’s did a test where they injected him with a low level radioactive fluid to see what was going on. He went back to work and later in the day had to use the head. When he peed it set off the radiation detectors, to this day he still laughs that somewhere, buried in some deep lined pit wrapped in plastic, is the urinal cake he whizzed on.


42 posted on 03/14/2011 4:48:03 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: JudgemAll

There is no guy pulling out rods. The plant operators insert control rods to stop the reaction. (And they’re not physically doing so. It’s a mechanism that happens automatically in an emergency shutdown.)


43 posted on 03/14/2011 4:48:49 AM PDT by BuckeyeTexan ("Use the law. Obey the law. Respect the law. Fight for the law.")
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To: buccaneer81

Oh, really?


44 posted on 03/14/2011 4:49:10 AM PDT by bvw
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To: buccaneer81

Interesting, and all these “Nuclear Arm Chair Warriors” here on the FreeRepublic have been saying don’t worry, there’s no danger, this is nothing.

I’m erring on the side of caution despite all thier macho BS.


45 posted on 03/14/2011 4:50:35 AM PDT by Scythian
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To: driftdiver

““one month from sources such as rocks, soil and the sun” I dunno, this just doesn’t seem to be that significant.”

Is 30X higher than normal significant?


46 posted on 03/14/2011 4:52:35 AM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: Rebelbase
Is 30X higher than normal significant?

Yes, it is significant and presents a danger, that is exactly why they moved the ship. If half of these macho "nuclear arm chair warriors" here on the FR were in charge of the ship they wouldn't move it until the flesh was dropping off thier bones, all the while gazing off into the distances at liberals, laughing and saying "See, it's safe, it is, it really is ..."
47 posted on 03/14/2011 4:56:04 AM PDT by Scythian
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To: Scythian

A matter of perspective. The damage Obama has done is many magnitudes greater than a nuclear plant half way around the world. Damage that we and our grandchildren will be paying for many years.


48 posted on 03/14/2011 4:56:19 AM PDT by listenhillary (Social Justice is the epitome of injustice.)
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To: Rebelbase

See post #41.


49 posted on 03/14/2011 4:57:52 AM PDT by BuckeyeTexan ("Use the law. Obey the law. Respect the law. Fight for the law.")
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To: listenhillary
A matter of perspective. The damage Obama has done is many magnitudes greater than a nuclear plant half way around the world. Damage that we and our grandchildren will be paying for many years.

Oh my gosh, what does it take for you guys to admit that in some case the crazy liberals, and they are crazy, sometimes have a point. Thinking that liberals are always 100% wrong and conversatives are 100% is well, wrong.
50 posted on 03/14/2011 4:59:04 AM PDT by Scythian
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