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The Day of the Lord!
The Ignorant Fishermen.com ^ | April 2, 2011 | DJP ( I.F.)

Posted on 04/02/2011 7:59:07 AM PDT by kindred

The “Day of the Lord” is an ongoing theme throughout both the Old and New Testaments. The exact phrase “Day of the Lord” is mentioned twenty-eight times throughout the two books. Moreover, the phrases “In That Day”, “The Day” and “The Great Day” also refer to the “Day of the Lord” and are mentioned over some seventy times throughout the Old and New Testaments. The underlying theme of all of them is the judgment of God (Rev. 6-19).

"This Day will commence directly after the Rapture of the Church, which will leave the inhabitants of the earth - especially America – bewildered, astonished and horrified"

This Day will commence directly after the Rapture of the Church, which will leave the inhabitants of the earth - especially America – bewildered, astonished and horrified. Following the removal of those who have a saving relationship to God in reality and Biblical truth, “The Day of the Lord” commences with the signing of a peace treaty with Israel and the nations of the Middle East (Dan 9:27). This peace treaty (covenant) will be strengthened and enforced by none other than the Man of Lawlessness – Lucifer’s global fascist, the Anti-Christ (2 Thess. 2:8-9). This time is dominated by the darkness of human delusion, godless insanity and lawlessness (Isa. 2:12-22; Ezek. 13:5; Joel 1:15; 2:1-11; Zeph. 1:7, 14; Zech. 13:1; Matt. 24). All paths since the Tower of Babel have been leading to this Day of Reckoning in which all natons will give an account (Acts 17:26-31).

The Word of Almighty God states the warning message that this Day will overtake the whole world, lying in its utter narcissistic unbelieving slumber, as a thief in the night!

"For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape' (1 Thess. 5:2-3).

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night" (2 Peter 3:10).

Even today the signs and warning bells are loudly ringing. The shofar (ram’s horn) of alert is piercing into every facet of civilization. While the Biblical evidence is overwhelming with events transpiring daily, the masses of humanity go about their narcissistic lives with a deaf ear turned to the warning cries of those who comprehend what is coming.

Even now, how true is Proverbs 1:24-31 of those in this day. How will they escape such global calamity? My friend, this if very sobering: they will not (1 Thess. 5:3b)!

"While the Biblical evidence is overwhelming with events transpiring daily, the masses of humanity go about their narcissistic lives with a deaf ear" . My friend, today as you hear this message of warning, harden not your hearts to the eternal love and strong hand of deliverance found in Almighty God’s Savior for the world, the Lord Jesus Christ. Make a strong and valiant attempt to be objective about the real reality and true condition of fallen (unregenerate) man. Six thousand years of human history attests to the fact of man’s violent attitude and godless actions. How can man bring about a global utopia from the wretched state in which they exist?

. The Lamb of Almighty God . Before the foundation of the world, Almighty God already had the remedy and solution for Adam’s fallen race (Rom. 5:12-19; Eph. 1:4; 1 Peter 1:18-20; Heb 1:2-3; Rev. 13:8). The Messiah of God (who is God the Son - John 1:1-5, Heb 1:2-3) is also the Lamb of God that taketh away the transgressions of the world! (John 1:29, 1 Peter 1:19-20).

The Bible states:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him" (John 3:16-17). . "Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father" (Gal 1:4).

Oh my Friend, what hope there is! What love divine! What deliverance from the godless ramifications of fallen humanity! Almighty God has a plan and purpose for your life here in time, and a glorious eternal future for you free from the tyranny of sin and the fallen effects of this broken world (1 Cor. 2:9).

"As surely as the sun will rise tomorrow, the events of “The Day of the Lord” will take place!"

As surely as the sun will rise tomorrow, the events of “The Day of the Lord” will take place! Be not a scoffer or mocker of the warnings from God’s Infallible and Inspired Word (2 Peter 3:3). . May ALL hear with ears the message and reality of the coming global day of wrath and not dismiss it as foolish heresay.

Do you know the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, as the Holy Scriptures teach? If not, my friend, place your eternal destiny in Hid eternal hands. He loves you and wants to save you from the wrath to come. My friend, do you have ears to hear God’s call to you? Place your trust in Him today. My friend, on the authority of God’s Word you will never be the same!. . The Kingdom of Heaven truly is at hand!.


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The day of the Lord is a day of wrath and only those who have believed in their heart and confessed with their mouth how that Jesus Christ was crucified for our sins and rose again the third day will be saved out of the 7 year wrath of God. The indignation of the God of Israel toward unregenerate mankind who has spurned Him and refused His grace and hung His only begotten Son Jesus Christ on the cross at Calvary in their arrogance and hatred of God, both Jew and Gentile are responsible.

ACTS 4: 24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is 25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. 29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. 31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. 32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

(Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

Psalm 2: 1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. 10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

1 posted on 04/02/2011 7:59:10 AM PDT by kindred
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To: kindred

I don’t expect this nightmare to ever end. Life is more tolerable when you don’t get your hopes up.


2 posted on 04/02/2011 8:00:48 AM PDT by Soothesayer (smallpox is not a person)
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To: Soothesayer
It will end, the 7 year tribulation is the way God will bring in the Kingdom rule of Jesus Christ as Lord and the Prophet and King of Kings over all the earth for 1000 years. This period will be the biblical fulfillment of God's promise to all Christians who believe Him and will be the Kingdom of Heaven on the earth fulfilling His Word by His many prophets in His infallible Scriptures.
3 posted on 04/02/2011 8:13:43 AM PDT by kindred (Come Lord Jesus, rule and reign over all thine enemies.)
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To: Soothesayer

It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men; and the living will lay it to his heart. (KJV)


4 posted on 04/02/2011 8:15:54 AM PDT by kindred (Come Lord Jesus, rule and reign over all thine enemies.)
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To: kindred

It will end, whether its through rapture, death beforehand, or being saved in the tribulation, ie not taking the mark of the beast and suffering for Christ sake, it will end.. God’s will be done..


5 posted on 04/02/2011 8:28:29 AM PDT by aces
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To: Soothesayer

“Life is more tolerable when you don’t get your hopes up.”

Oh, I believe it will end eventually, but those who think they will be whisked away before the last mile of the race is run are probably going to be caught unprepared.


6 posted on 04/02/2011 8:31:14 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

I’m just going to shoot myself before the “last mile”. Not interested in seeing what horrors come next and I don’t expect to make it into heaven anyway.


7 posted on 04/02/2011 8:44:55 AM PDT by Soothesayer (smallpox is not a person)
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To: Boogieman

[who think they will be whisked away]

A typical but unbiblical stance if you search the Scriptures which verify that the children created in Christ Jesus our Lord and our Saviour and our coming King of the earth are not appointed to the wrath of the God of Israel as Paul the apostle to the gentiles teaches.for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

I Thes:5

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do. 12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; 13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. And be at peace among yourselves. 14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. 15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. 16 Rejoice evermore. 17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. 19 Quench not the Spirit. 20 Despise not prophesyings. 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25 Brethren, pray for us. 26 Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss. 27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren. 28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

I Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


8 posted on 04/02/2011 8:58:41 AM PDT by kindred (Come Lord Jesus, rule and reign over all thine enemies.)
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To: Soothesayer

Hate to break this to you, but IMHO, suicide is not an option. It’s just a quick trip to hell.

Read da tag.


9 posted on 04/02/2011 9:01:53 AM PDT by wizr (Keep the Faith! Even when it gets tough! Nothing else will do.)
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To: Soothesayer

[expect to make it into heaven anyway.]

So much misunderstanding the of the grace of God. Grace was purchased by the sinless only begotten Son of God by His willingly shedding His sinless blood to purchase salvation for ungodly sinners that are His enemies by birth to fallen man. He purchased this salvation so that sinners who believe on Jesus Christ may be saved not by works but rather by faith, this is the grace of God the Scriptures teach of and speak of.(”through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God)

Ephesians 2:
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus 7 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby


10 posted on 04/02/2011 9:05:47 AM PDT by kindred (Come Lord Jesus, rule and reign over all thine enemies.)
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To: kindred

“Wrath” doesn’t refer to the entire 7 year period of tribulation, you are just assuming that. There is a clear contrast in that passage between wrath and salvation. Since we know that some who suffer through the tribulation will be saved during it, then they must be included in the salvation, and also spared from the wrath. Therefore, the tribulation cannot be the wrath that we are promised to be spared from. The wrath is, instead, the alternative to salvation, which is damnation.

Your second quote proves that we will not be “raptured” prior to the tribulation, since it states clearly that those who are alive will not preceed the dead in Christ. This refers to the resurrection of the righteous, which won’t occur until the Second Coming.


11 posted on 04/02/2011 9:12:35 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Soothesayer

I think that’s a very sad attitude, FRiend. If my words could sway you at all, I’d suggest that you give Christ a chance to show you the hope that He offers to all of us. If He doesn’t respond, you’ve lost nothing, but if He does, well, you’ll gain something that can’t be valued.


12 posted on 04/02/2011 9:17:24 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

I, for one, believe in the teaching of being caught up to meet the Lord in the air, (1 Thes. 4:13-18) referred to by most of Christendom as the Rapture. The argument generally revolves around when... “The wise bridesmaids keeps their lamps filled with lamp oil and the wicks trimmed...” a good indication that His return could be eminent. And If no man knows the hour or the day, then certainly no man can guess either... I guarantee you, that if the 7 year tribulation were to start tomorrow, I can guess when His return will be.


13 posted on 04/02/2011 9:18:28 AM PDT by dps.inspect (the system is rigged...)
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To: Boogieman
[“Wrath” doesn’t refer to the entire 7 year period of tribulation,]

Yes indeed it does refer to the entire 7 year period. Read the Book of Revelation and search them for the time period divided into 2 halves, the first half being the opening of the 7 seals of God by Jesus Christ the Son and the last half being the great tribulation, the opening of the seven trumpet followed by the 7 viol judgments, also known as the wrath of God, the indignation of God and finally the time of Jacobs trouble. This seven year tribulation period is poured out on the desolate of the earth, of whom the Body of Christ is spared much like God spared Israel in Goshen from His wrath on the Egyptian people who enslaved them.

14 posted on 04/02/2011 9:31:00 AM PDT by kindred (Come Lord Jesus, rule and reign over all thine enemies.)
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To: Boogieman

[ since it states clearly that those who are alive will not preceed the dead in Christ.]

How long is the “a moment, the twinkling of an eye”? With God, all things are possible.


15 posted on 04/02/2011 9:33:05 AM PDT by kindred (Come Lord Jesus, rule and reign over all thine enemies.)
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To: dps.inspect

Well, at the time Jesus was speaking, I’m sure that no man knew the day or the hour, but he didn’t say that no man would ever know.

The fact is, Jesus warn us about specific signs of His coming to watch for, which would be nonsensical if we wouldn’t be there to witness them. Why would He warn us to watch for the Abomination of Desolation if only non-believers, who would not heed his word, would be around then? In fact, most of the Book of Revelation would be similarly superfluous if believers would be removed before those events took place.

In fact, in 1 Thes. 5:1-6, it explains that it is the unbelievers only who will be caught unaware at Christ’s coming, for we “are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.” We are instructed not only to be spiritually ready for His coming, but also to “not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.” If we could not know the time of His coming, then what should we watch for? Instead, Christ and the Apostles gave us many signs to watch for, and this is not useless information, as it would be if the pre-Trib rapture notion is correct.


16 posted on 04/02/2011 9:39:50 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: kindred

Actually, there are 3 groups of 7 in the Book of Revelation that deal with that period, not 2. There are 7 seals, 7 trumpets, and 7 bowls/vials. The rapture happens after the 7th trumpet, and the wrath follow after this, which is after Christ’s return. This can be seen in the following passage (Rev 11:15-18):

“15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.”

Here we see again, the “wrath” is associated with the judgment of the dead, which we later see in more detail in the description of the White Throne Judgment. However, the 7th angel doesn’t sound until the end of the 7 year period. This can be seen if you read the earlier part of Chapter 11, for the 2 witnesses will prophecy for 3 1/2 years before being killed, and then their bodies will lie in the streets for 3 1/2 years before they are resurrected, at which point the seventh trumpet sounds the return of Christ.

It’s good to keep in mind that Revelation is not a straight narrative, there are several narratives, some nested within others, so that you can not read it front to back as a simple timeline. You must look for the events which correlate in the different narratives in order to get a clear chronological picture.


17 posted on 04/02/2011 9:55:57 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Soothesayer; kindred

I am anxious for this nightmare to end, I want to be taken off this Earth, relieved of my sinful human flesh and to be in the presence of the Lord, so that all my worldly pains and sorrows are over!


18 posted on 04/02/2011 9:58:05 AM PDT by RaceBannon (RON PAUL: THE PARTY OF TRUTHERS, TRAITORS AND UFO CHASERS!!!)
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To: kindred

“How long is the “a moment, the twinkling of an eye”? With God, all things are possible.”

I’m not even sure what you are trying to say here. The resurrection of the righteous precedes the rapture, that is clearly stated. The resurrection of the righteous occurs at the Second Coming, which comes at the end of the Tribulation. Surely, every thing is possible with God, except for God telling his faithful a lie, since then He would not be the one true God, but someone else, wouldn’t He?


19 posted on 04/02/2011 10:00:12 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

The best book I have seen explaining the rapture and how even the early Church was awaiting the return of Christ and NOT judgement, is:

MARANATHA! OUR LORD COME!
By Renald Shopwers

Check it out on Amazon,

also, here is a great series of studies online:

http://www.google.com/custom?q=rapture&cof=AH%3Acenter%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.middletownbiblechurch.org%3B+%09%09%09%09%09AWFID%3Aceb9f7372ed76876%3B&domains=middletownbiblechurch.org&sitesearch=middletownbiblechurch.org


20 posted on 04/02/2011 10:01:59 AM PDT by RaceBannon (RON PAUL: THE PARTY OF TRUTHERS, TRAITORS AND UFO CHASERS!!!)
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To: Boogieman

renald showers

sorry for the typo, NOT showpers

SHOWERS


21 posted on 04/02/2011 10:02:55 AM PDT by RaceBannon (RON PAUL: THE PARTY OF TRUTHERS, TRAITORS AND UFO CHASERS!!!)
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To: Boogieman

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0915540223/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&qid=1301763360&sr=8-1&condition=used


22 posted on 04/02/2011 10:05:57 AM PDT by RaceBannon (RON PAUL: THE PARTY OF TRUTHERS, TRAITORS AND UFO CHASERS!!!)
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To: RaceBannon

“even the early Church was awaiting the return of Christ and NOT judgement”

Of course they were not awaiting judgment, but the tribulation preceeds the judgment, it is not the same thing.


23 posted on 04/02/2011 10:09:13 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: kindred

Interesting read.

I’ve always been a “pre-tribber”, but always wondered about this passage:

1 Corinthians 15:52

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

At the last trump: does this mean the so-called rapture will not occur until the the 7th trumpet of judgment is blown? Or is this another “trumpet” this passage is referring to?


24 posted on 04/02/2011 10:09:35 AM PDT by WKUHilltopper (Fix bayonets!)
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To: Soothesayer

“I’m just going to shoot myself before the “last mile”. Not interested in seeing what horrors come next and I don’t expect to make it into heaven anyway.”

Oh, please don’t do this! You still won’t escape judgment if you’re not covered by the blood of Jesus.


25 posted on 04/02/2011 10:14:11 AM PDT by WKUHilltopper (Fix bayonets!)
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To: Boogieman; The Ignorant Fisherman

Umm, the tribulation IS judgement, or did you never read that?

If Paul wanted to train up the Church to live through the tribulation, why didn’t he tell them to MOVE to safer locations?

Horde food?

Buy weapons?

All that makes sense IF YOU ARE STAYING BEHIND, but NOT if you are going up! :)

However, I genuinely believe we are going to have a major war/judgement against the US before the rapture, maybe a world wide war of sorts, most likely a combination of the Islamic wars now and some catastrophe like Japan happening here

So, I am hording food... :)


26 posted on 04/02/2011 10:26:47 AM PDT by RaceBannon (RON PAUL: THE PARTY OF TRUTHERS, TRAITORS AND UFO CHASERS!!!)
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To: RaceBannon

“Umm, the tribulation IS judgement, or did you never read that?”

Huh? Where do you get that from?

Acts 14:22 - “Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”

Romans 5:3 - “And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;”

Romans 12:12 - “Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;”

Revelation 7:14 - “And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

The word “tribulation” in all of these verses (and more) is Strong’s 2347, meaning:

“1) a pressing, pressing together, pressure

2) metaph. oppression, affliction, tribulation, distress, straits”

It is translated the following ways in the KJV New Testament:

“tribulation 21, affliction 17, trouble 3, anguish 1, persecution 1, burdened 1, to be afflicted + 1519 1”

In the Old Testament, the synonyms would be Strong’s 6862:

“1) narrow, tight

2) straits, distress

3) adversary, foe, enemy, oppressor

4) hard pebble, flint”

And Strong’s 6869:

“1) straits, distress, trouble

2) vexer, rival wife”

So, let me ask you, where exactly can I read in the Bible that tribulation is judgement?

“If Paul wanted to train up the Church to live through the tribulation, why didn’t he tell them to MOVE to safer locations?”

Maybe because we are told to endure our trials and not run from them? If God wanted to spare us from hardship, He could just strike us dead as soon as we accepted Christ. Instead, He has appointed us to perform His work in this world, until He returns. So, if we were to flee from the tribulations of the world, who would we witness to? The other believers who are hiding with us in our bunkers?


27 posted on 04/02/2011 10:50:31 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: WKUHilltopper

“At the last trump: does this mean the so-called rapture will not occur until the the 7th trumpet of judgment is blown? Or is this another “trumpet” this passage is referring to?”

There is only one “last trump”, the 7th trumpet. You can assure yourself of this, by observing that the Second Coming always accompanies the “rapture”, the ressurection of the righteous, and this trumpet (which is also sometimes referred to as the sounding of the Seventh Angel).


28 posted on 04/02/2011 10:53:15 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: kindred
It will end, the 7 year tribulation is the way God...

All those unscriptural Tim LaHaye books have perverted sound Bible doctrine.

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." (Matthew 24:29,30)

The tribulation happens BEFORE the day of the Lord, when he comes in power to gather his elect (those who believe on him) and judge the earth. As unpalatable as it may seem believers will experience tribulation. We already experience tribulation, but it will increase prior to the day of the Lord. After the believers are taken up, the Lord will JUDGE the earth. The bible does NOT call that period of judgement tribulation.

29 posted on 04/02/2011 11:11:59 AM PDT by nonsporting
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To: Boogieman

No response :(


30 posted on 04/02/2011 11:12:03 AM PDT by Soothesayer (smallpox is not a person)
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To: Boogieman

OK...so you think the rapture and the second coming happen in conjunction with each other? In other words, the rapture only occurs during the tribulation period—and at that, when the 7th trumpet is blown.


31 posted on 04/02/2011 11:32:38 AM PDT by WKUHilltopper (Fix bayonets!)
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To: Boogieman; WKUHilltopper
1 Corinthians 15:52

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:
for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed.

WKUH>At the last trump: does this mean the so-called rapture will not occur until the the 7th trumpet of judgment is blown? Or is this another “trumpet” this passage is referring to?

There is only one "last trump", the 7th trumpet. You can assure yourself of this, by observing that the Second Coming always accompanies the “rapture”, the resurrection of the righteous, and this trumpet (which is also sometimes referred to as the sounding of the Seventh Angel).

That is one interpretation. Another is that "trump"
refers the to the blowing of a Shofar.

YHvH's Feast of Trumpets, known to some as Rosh Hashanah,
is when the Last Trump is blown.

For a month (the month of Elul just before the month of Tishri)
each day the Shofar is blown.

On the Feast of Trumpets (the first day of the month of Tishri)
a series of blasts of the Shofar occur until the Last Trump is blown.

In addition Yah'shua re-celebrated each of YHvH's Feast days in sequence.
Each was celebrated within the metaphor of the Feast.

The "last supper" was a Passover dinner.

The following day is Hag Matzoh when all leaven is removed;
Leaven is a metaphor for sin as it puffs one up.

Yah'shua rose from the dead on the Feast of Yom ha-Bikkurim,
the day when the finest of the barley harvest is offered to YHvH.

Fifty days after Yah'shua rose from the dead is YHvH's Feast
of Shavuot which in the Greek is known as Pentecost.
The first Pentecost is when the Law was given at Sinai.

The next of YHvH's Feasts is the Feast of Trumpets.
This Feast is know as the Feast that the Day nor Hour is known.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
32 posted on 04/02/2011 12:03:23 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

Thanks very interesting...I’ve read good discussions supporting pre, mid and post trib raptures. Never thought of the “trump” related to 1 Corinthians referred to as a shofar.

I would encourage all to repent and put their trust and faith in Christ—as these are very “interesting” times we’re are living.

I know some of these “pre, mid and post” tribulation discussions turn out to be raging arguments at time. So I even hesitate to ask questions—but we all should remember that whatever we believe about the “rapture” is not a condition of salvation—(not that anyone is going off the deep end on this)—only by the Grace of God are we saved.


33 posted on 04/02/2011 12:14:02 PM PDT by WKUHilltopper (Fix bayonets!)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

That’s all well and good, but that doesn’t refute the clear statements of Scripture that the living won’t preceed the dead in Christ. All this occurs at the Second coming, after the 7 year tribulation, and there are multiple times in Scripture that confirm the sequence.


34 posted on 04/02/2011 12:24:25 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Soothesayer

“No response :(”

Be patient... God doesn’t always work like Instant Messenger :)


35 posted on 04/02/2011 12:27:00 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: WKUHilltopper

“OK...so you think the rapture and the second coming happen in conjunction with each other? In other words, the rapture only occurs during the tribulation period—and at that, when the 7th trumpet is blown.”

According to my study, the sequence is this:

The 7 year period draws to an end, the Lord reappears, concurrent with the sounding of the 7th trumpet, which is concurrent with the first resurrection, and immediately followed by the rapture of the living believers.

Now, the wedding feast of the Lamb occurs around this time, but I’m still not certain as to the exact timing there. I believe, though, it happens after this rapture, but before the Lord descends to the Mount of Olives, with his army, to destroy the gathered armies at Armageddon. However, since the feast occurs in Heaven, time may well be meaningless in that regard, and so there may be no interruption apparent to those on Earth, between Christ’s reappearance in the heavens, and his descent to Earth.


36 posted on 04/02/2011 12:35:19 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

Thanks for your work and response. Very interesting!


37 posted on 04/02/2011 12:52:38 PM PDT by WKUHilltopper (Fix bayonets!)
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To: RaceBannon

Guys,

We will defiantly be gone, that is for sure before the Day of the Lord (seven year trib) (2 Thess 2:7-8, Rev 3:10).

(For what it is worth) I personally believe that The Rapture will take place and then America will be judged. In light of our godly founding etc… I am not saying that we as believers will not have some persecution etc.. from the American Left.. But we (the church) will not go through the seven year trib.

Check out this chart
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_40SH0mEU7H0/St5Jmljr4aI/AAAAAAAAAAk/_ZU5ZF_YjaE/s1600-h/scandam2_jpg_w560h771.jpg

Also… Be careful with all of this spirit of Islam that is infiltrating the evangelical churches. That the Anti Christ is Islamic etc.. by the end of the first half of the trib Islam will be judged and wiped out (Ezek 38-39, Rev 17:16-17) Satan is preparing them (Islam) to counter act the two witnesses and the coming Messiah with the Twelfth Imam etc.. (Matt. 24: Rev. 11: 3-16) when the church is gone (Ezek 38-39, 2 Thess. 2:7-8, Rev. 3:10).

For it is at this time shall the Gospel shine forth into the entire world from ground zero in the Muslim world, Jerusalem!. We as believer think to much with a Western bias when it come to the Gospel out reach etc.. The Gospel during this time will go out smack dab in the heart of Islam! And millions of Muslims will come to Christ and in Christ’s kingdom be loved and part of Almighty God’s great Kingdom age plan (Rev. 7:13-14, Isa. 19:21-25).

http://www.theignorantfishermen.com/2008/07/sets-in-west-and-rises-in-east.html

The Lord has used the West to be a spring board for gospel evangelical out reach for nearly 400 years… but we are now an apostate country an our light is almost gone save but a remnant through out America (Isa. 1:9 – our countries parallel condition). Israel’s remnant under the Two Witnesses will change the dispensation and be a brilliant light burning unto the world at that time preaching repentance, salvation of the Jewish Messiah, and to pick up the Lord’s prior message that in seven years, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand and will be established!!

Glory be!1 Even so Come Lord Jesus!
I.F.


38 posted on 04/02/2011 3:43:37 PM PDT by The Ignorant Fisherman
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To: Boogieman

The time of Jacob’s trouble is NOT judgement?

Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


39 posted on 04/02/2011 3:53:30 PM PDT by RaceBannon (RON PAUL: THE PARTY OF TRUTHERS, TRAITORS AND UFO CHASERS!!!)
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To: Boogieman

Thanks for your work, Boogieman.

I once believed in the pre-trib rapture because that’s what I grew up with as an evangelical. It didn’t take many years of study before I came to the same conclusions you have. Not only is your position based on sound study of the Bible, but it is also based in logic.

Being a Christian in America is not like being a Christian in China or Iran, where openly professing your faith opens up you and your family to torture, imprisonment, or a terrible death. Why would God spare us those fates during the tribulation when so many suffer the same now and have through persecutions over the last 2,000 years?

I’ve also learned to study prophecy and, indeed, the whole Bible in the light of a Jerusalem-centric viewpoint. Everything falls into place so easily when we don’t force a modern Western viewpoint on God’s word.

I have no quarrel with those who are pre- trib or mid-trib — it’s not a necessary article of faith. I could also be wrong. But I believe that most Christians, including myself, will adjust their eschatology accordingly when the antichrist makes his appearance. Things that may not be clear now will become clear as the end draws near.


40 posted on 04/02/2011 4:01:22 PM PDT by DallasMike
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To: Boogieman

Thanks for your work, Boogieman.

I once believed in the pre-trib rapture because that’s what I grew up with as an evangelical. It didn’t take many years of study before I came to the same conclusions you have. Not only is your position based on sound study of the Bible, but it is also based in logic.

Being a Christian in America is not like being a Christian in China or Iran, where openly professing your faith opens up you and your family to torture, imprisonment, or a terrible death. Why would God spare us those fates during the tribulation when so many suffer the same now and have through persecutions over the last 2,000 years?

I’ve also learned to study prophecy and, indeed, the whole Bible in the light of a Jerusalem-centric viewpoint. Everything falls into place so easily when we don’t force a modern Western viewpoint on God’s word.

I have no quarrel with those who are pre- trib or mid-trib — it’s not a necessary article of faith. I could also be wrong. But I believe that most Christians, including myself, will adjust their eschatology accordingly when the antichrist makes his appearance. Things that may not be clear now will become clear as the end draws near.


41 posted on 04/02/2011 4:01:22 PM PDT by DallasMike
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To: RaceBannon

The trbulation is not God’s day of wrath though God will prounce judgments during that time just as he has many other times, including those recorded in the Bible.

The day of wrath is when Jesus returns to kill the Antichrist and God’s enemies. Those of us who survive the tribulation will be raptured and join Jesus in that battle.


42 posted on 04/02/2011 4:14:15 PM PDT by DallasMike
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To: RaceBannon

The trbulation is not God’s day of wrath though God will prounce judgments during that time just as he has many other times, including those recorded in the Bible.

The day of wrath is when Jesus returns to kill the Antichrist and God’s enemies. Those of us who survive the tribulation will be raptured and join Jesus in that battle.


43 posted on 04/02/2011 4:14:15 PM PDT by DallasMike
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To: kindred

Sorry for the double posts. My iPad seems prone to that on FR.


44 posted on 04/02/2011 4:16:13 PM PDT by DallasMike
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To: DallasMike

I never said the tribulation was THE DAY OF WRATH, I said it was judgement

However, the tribulation has many definitions and terms used to describe it


45 posted on 04/02/2011 6:58:37 PM PDT by RaceBannon (RON PAUL: THE PARTY OF TRUTHERS, TRAITORS AND UFO CHASERS!!!)
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To: RaceBannon

“The time of Jacob’s trouble is NOT judgement?”

You’re looking at it far too simplistically, I think. Tribulation and trouble are synonyms, and neither one of them carries the notion of judgement in and of themselves. Now, the prophecies of this time do refer to judgements that God will render, but they also refer to this time as a time of blessing, thanksgiving, redemption, etc. So, to say that “Tribulation=Judgement” is to ignore the entire scope of what has been revealed to us.

There are also many types of judgement spoken of in the Bible, such as judgements against nations, kings, and of course the last judgement. If a believer is living in a nation that is judged by God before the Tribulation, is he raptured away before that happens as well? Or must we admit that we are not guaranteed to be spared from every type of judgement, but rather one particular type?

“Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

Yes, this is a quote, attributed to the people trying to hide from the Lamb at the time of the Second Coming. The day of wrath comes after the Second Coming, and if you continue to read chapter 7, you will see that the wrath does not come until after the Elect are sealed and the great multitude of the saved, “which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” are already with the Lamb. That’s a verse that I’ve never heard pre-trib believers deal with, since it specifically says that this multitude “came out of great tribulation”. How could they come out of it if they were raptured before it began?

I think you might be confusing the events detailed in Revelation with the 7 year period of the Tribulation itself. Revelation does not only cover this 7 years, but rather, that is only one part of the prophecy. So, just because the wrath is spoken of in Revelation, does not mean that it occurs during the 7 years. All the references to the wrath and judgement of God come after His return, which comes at the end of the 7 years, not during or before it. During the tribulation there are hardships, trials, and troubles, but these are not the wrath of God.


46 posted on 04/02/2011 9:41:49 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: WKUHilltopper

No problem, I hope that it gives some food for thought, but always remember to go back to the Scripture to see what is true or not, since any one of us could be wrong.


47 posted on 04/02/2011 9:44:05 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: DallasMike

“It didn’t take many years of study before I came to the same conclusions you have. Not only is your position based on sound study of the Bible, but it is also based in logic.”

Yes, I think the conclusion is pretty clear, but there are three things that I see which lead people to this error. First, as you said, many are taught these things in church, or from their youth, and don’t question it. Second, it’s a comforting thought to think that we won’t have to worry about some of these fearful events that are prophesied, so there is a strong emotional pull to the pre-trib rapture position. Lastly, as with anything in prophecy, it can easily be misread and misinterpreted, especially if one doesn’t spend a great deal of time studying the Scriptures yourself.

“I’ve also learned to study prophecy and, indeed, the whole Bible in the light of a Jerusalem-centric viewpoint. Everything falls into place so easily when we don’t force a modern Western viewpoint on God’s word.”

Yes, this is important to a lot of prophecy, since Jerusalem really is the focal point on this Earth of much of God’s plan. There are prophecies for other nations, and I believe there are prophecies for the West, but it can be hard to see these clearly, since there was no “England”, “Germany”, “France”, “America”, etc, at the time the prophecies were written.

I agree with you, the disputes about the timing of the rapture aren’t essential to salvation. One thing that I worry about though, is if some will be misled by false expectations. If a great many Christians are expecting to be raptured by Christ before the Antichrist reveals himself, then what might happen if the Antichrist reveals himself first, but in a semblance of Christ? Will some of these people be deluded into thinking that this is the Second Coming, thinking that Christ will return first?


48 posted on 04/02/2011 9:54:18 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

I agree that that many will be deluded and, at first, will think him to be Jesus.

“23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.”

-Matthew 24:23-25


49 posted on 04/02/2011 10:11:23 PM PDT by DallasMike
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To: Boogieman

I agree that that many will be deluded and, at first, will think him to be Jesus.

“23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.”

-Matthew 24:23-25


50 posted on 04/02/2011 10:11:23 PM PDT by DallasMike
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