Posted on 07/17/2011 1:06:48 PM PDT by Brices Crossroads
The news and blogosphere is filled with responses to the July 14, 2011 story by Joshua Green, the Senior Editor of the Atlantic, entitled "Michele Bachmann's Church Says the Pope Is the Antichrist." That is because it raises a serious matter which should not be taken lightly, and one which the candidate must address. First, let me share some personal context. I am what is often called a "revert" to the Catholic Church, someone who returned to the Church of my childhood after a long search for the truth. I love being a Catholic Christian. I hold an undergraduate degree and a master's degree in Catholic theology. I am a dissertation away from obtaining a PhD in Catholic Moral Theology. I am also a member of the Clergy, a Deacon. However, I write this article as a private and very concerned citizen.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...
This Fournier guy is a trouble maker. There was no other reason to post this. What does he want to do to Bachmann, string her up? “ <<<<
Fournier did not post this. He is a devout Catholic deacon who has his own Catholic blog from which this was probably taken. Fournier was not talking to you. He was informing Catholics.
“Bachman or Obama - which one would you want sitting in judgment on you if you were a Catholic?”
I would support Bachmann if she were the nominee, based upon my ideology, conservative, not based upon her Church’s views of the Pope.
But you are seriously wrong if you think there are not many Catholics in places like PA or Ohio or New Mexico who may have voted for Obama last time but are disillusioned with him and are looking for a GOP candidate to vote for. Unlike ideological voters, such as those on FR and other conservative sites, they are inclined against Obama but not certain to vote against him or even to vote at all.
Bachmann’s nomination would give Obama all the fodder he would need to run ads in PA, Ohio and across the midwest, questioning her beliefs against Catholics and driving Catholic voters away from her. That is the reality of it, whether you like it or not. Ignoring this in a GOP primary is not going to mean the Dems will ignore it.
Bachmann is about as sure a loser as you can get. Leaving the Church six days before she announced for President suggests that She knows this is a problem.
Yet some of her supporters, including the closet Romneybots who are pushing her, do not seem to realize it. Or at least they pretend they don’t realize it.
CelticCross:
Wouldn’t you like to know.
Well, that's all right, but be sure never to run for President. According to Fournier only people who believe everyone automatically goes to Heaven has the right to run for President.
Who cares? Seriously.
Luther broke away from the Catholic Church - so there lies the emphasis in their tenants regarding the Pope and the Catholic Church.
I grew up in that religion and a nicer bunch of people you will never meet. I didn’t see any Evangelicalism at all - perhaps she enhances it with her own personal beliefs. I saw no antisemitism either. What the Church “officially” thinks and what the people actually hear on Sundays may be two very different things.
All Christian denominations believe that they and their church are the true believers. Catholics think the same thing.
I think her quitting the Church was a bad move - it draws attention to it.
Um, how can a non-Catholic be guilty of "blasphemy against the Catholic Church?" Isn't that like a non-citizen being guilty of "treason?"
Obama has to know that Reverend Wrong is much more pertinent to him than WELS is to Michele Bachmann. That would be a rich backfire on him.
You think they would vote for Obama? Or is that what you would like? Look, I want Palin to run, but if she doesn't get nominated and Bachman does, you think I would vote for Obama? I am not Catholic. I also don't think I am stupid, and I will vote for the most conservative candidate. Even if he or she does not approve of my baptism.
See the Christians how they love one another.
*Some Traditional Catholics believe that a pope was anti-Christ
http://www.trosch.org/jpi/antichrist.html
*Some RCs believe that a pope will be anti-Christ:
Fr. Herman Kramer was a Catholic priest who spent 30 years studying and writing a book on the Apocalypse. In his book, he wrote the following about St. Paul’s prophecy concerning the Antichrist sitting in the Temple of God.
“St. Paul says that Antichrist ‘sitteth in the temple of God’… This is not the ancient Temple of Jerusalem, nor a temple like it built by Antichrist, as some have thought, for then it would be his own temple… this temple is shown to be a Catholic Church, possibly one of the churches in Jerusalem or St. Peter’s in Rome, which is the largest church in the world and is in the full sense ‘The Temple of God.’”
Our Lady of La Salette, Sept. 19, 1846: “Rome will lose the Faith and become the seat of the Anti-Christ… the Church will be in eclipse.”
The Catholic Encyclopedia article on “Antichrist” indicates that St. Bernard believed that the
Antichrist would be an antipope. http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/section1.pdf
According to the prophecy of St. Malachy, the last pope would be “the glory of the olive”, which is a phrase that has been associated with Pope Benedict XVI. http://papalprophecies.com/obama-pope-benedict-december-2012-the-anti-christ-the-last-pope.html
Also, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1351430/posts
“When the great ruler (the Great Monarch who is to rule Europe after the collapse of Communism) exterminates the Turks almost entirely, one of the remaining Mohammadans will be converted, become a priest bishop and cardinal, and when the new pope is elected (immediately before Antichrist) this cardinal will kill the pope before he is crowned, through jealousy, wishing to be pope himself; then when the other cardinals elect the next pope this cardinal will proclaim himself Anti-pope, and two-thirds of the Christians will go with him. He, as well as Anti-christ, are descendants of the tribe of Dan. - Yves Dupont (a staunch anti-communist, and a learned Catholic historian, September 1975 A.D.)
Do any Catholics care to take a position on whether or not Protestants are Christians and saved? I know what the Catholic church used to say. The answer, as I understand it, is No. Does it still say it? Does that mean that Catholics are antiProtestant?
If we are looking for reasons to devour each other, religious wars have served that purpose for centuries.
My intent is not to stir up trouble. Personally, I tend to look for reasons to agree with someone on Christian doctrine, as opposed to looking for grounds to disagree.
The point is that we are not establishing a theocracy. Any church, with a systematized theology, is going to have controversial points. Membership in that church may or may not mean the member is a hard line advocate of those points of view.
Before we run off the lemming cliff because of Bachmann’s church membership, let’s give her a chance to explain herself, and let’s look at what she may have said and done on this topic before.
“Get to a clinic, and have yourself evaluated. This issue is so far down the list for 99% of the population, that it’s not even on the list.”
Wow. That is a perceptive argument. Did you come up with it all by yourself or did Mommy help?
It may be down your list, but Bachmann apparently realized it was important enough to resign from this Church SIX DAYS BEFORE SHE ANNOUNCED FOR PRESIDENT. It is all over the internet.
And at over 200 posts in 2 hours, it has generated more interest than any previous post about Bachmann on FR. You are apparently the only one around who thinks it is no big deal. Yet you feel compelled to show up and to regale us all with the searing logic of your fiery intellect.
Dissolving an official connection with WELS could easily make sense for a politician who travels widely. Like many Roman congregations and some non-Roman congregation, they want her to be properly brushed up on her spiritual status before attending a Holy Communion. Without any WELS in Washington this would be difficult already. LCMS is the most conservative possibility that Bachmann could count on finding just about anywhere in the USA.
Our pastor had the youth come up and explained the parable of the enemy throwing the weed seed into the freshly planted wheat. They all looked sort of puzzled, until he explained it to them.
This is nonsense.
If you believe in a religion then you necessarily believe that others are false in those ways that they differ from yours.
Bump to the top!!!
The Gov. of NY is a Catholic, Pelosi, Kennedy’s - Catholic, Notre Dame so called Catholic University had a Priest arrested recently and Buffalos Canisus campus had Hillery Clinton speak at an event. I could go on with this, but the point being We Catholics need to get our own house in order. Most of our Bishops Priests and Deacons say nothing about our own Catholic politicans. “ <<<<
Have you entertained the thought of self ex-communication applying to every one of your examples. These are not wobbly Catholics, these examples are instead, dedicated protestants to the Church, who make political hay for themselves by continuing to identify themselves as Catholics, causing grave scandal by their self identity to the Church they despise.
Today’s Reading can be applied to your remark of getting your house in order. One homily I ran across applies the Reading to inside the Church, at the point of Scripture where Jesus is no longer talking to the crowd but only to the disciples when he explains to wait for the harvest of angels, and not to risk the wheat by tearing up the tares.
Just food for thought.
This isn’t going away because the Left isn’t going to let it. My boyfriend is Catholic and a Conservative, so I don’t need any retort for what I’m about to say. Not all Catholics are Conservative. There are many in the church who support the Democrats. While there might be more than a few Democrats who are good folks of faith, there are many who aren’t. I don’t know where this story came from, but I find it hard to believe that a Lutheran of any sect would believe that the Pope, any pope, is the anti-Christ. Bachmann sure doesn’t.
This isn’t going away because the Left isn’t going to let it. My boyfriend is Catholic and a Conservative, so I don’t need any retort for what I’m about to say. Not all Catholics are Conservative. There are many in the church who support the Democrats. While there might be more than a few Democrats who are good folks of faith, there are many who aren’t. I don’t know where this story came from, but I find it hard to believe that a Lutheran of any sect would believe that the Pope, any pope, is the anti-Christ. Bachmann sure doesn’t.
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