White House, Republicans Strike Tenative Deal To Raise Debt Ceiling

ABCNews ^ | July 30, 2011 | Jonathon Karl

[sickoflibs]

RE :”There are actually some Freepers who like it.”

I can see both sides of the argument but:
1) extending it into 2013,
2) with no cuts until 2013, and
3) giving Obama this big reform that he will surely take credit for (and get it too) is the opposite of what RINOs like McConnell say they are for, beating Obama. This is an Obama-deal that helps him get re-elected.

I would make it a even more bitter taste for Democrats to swallow, as Tea party conservatives did with the Boehner bill. .

[llandres]

“Nevertheless, it still comes down to would you rather have a Kagan or a Roberts? Sotomayer or an Alito? Ginsberg or a Scalia? Breyer or a Thomas?

Elections matter.”

YES they DO. That’s why, after we do all we can to get the best candidate, we just really need to turn out en masse for our nominee for any hope of knocking BHO out, because his side will do the same plus try to commit as much voter fraud as possible.

For those who would be purists or stay home, remember that the single most important thing about a BHO re-election would be the death for YEARS of a decent SCOTUS - we could lose one or two good conservative justices. Heck, the loss of even ONE would be fatal when replaced with another Kagan, Sotomayer, Ginsberg or Breyer.

If that happens, we’re toast.

Vote to BEAT BHO. House and Senate control is also extremely critical as a safeguard no matter what.

[llandres]

“Their oath is to support the Constitution, not the court, or some judge, or some old unconstitutional court decision in one particular case.”

Give me a break. You really think Kagan or Sotomeyer care about the Constitution??? They don’t, and have said as much in their confirmation hearings. Even Ginsberg has stated that she thinks international law should trump ours.

The only justices who truly care about the Constitution are the four conservative ones we currently have, and perhaps Kennedy who’s been a decent tie-breaker in many important cases. (Not all, but some.)

[llandres]

“Why should you, I, or anyone think they will fix it if we get a majority again?”

It’s still the ONLY way we have a chance to fix things. Besides, then there wasn’t a Tea Party. That can make all the difference, and already has with this debt ceiling becoming a huge issue with the American people who’ve been awakened and made aware.

Many Republicans have learned their lesson with the thrashing they got in ‘06 and ‘08.

One thing’s certain, we’re totally hosed if we DON’T gain control of the WH and Senate. We have it in our power to put more conservatives in both houses of Congress.

[Freedom56v2]

Not sure exactly who the RINOs are working for, but certainly not me....

[sickoflibs]

RE :"Not sure exactly who the RINOs are working for, but certainly not me...."

Wall Street, Chamber of Commerce and others all want this resolved yesterday as they wanted TARP and amnesty and stimulus. Add to that that McCain RINOs are cowards terrified of taking risks.

[DoughtyOne]

Nope, we sure didn’t fix it from 2001 to 2009, but that doesn’t mean we can’t in the future. Let’s look at it another way, however, if Gore was President in 2001 and we got hit on 9/11...what happens?

I agree with your take on it in that time frame.  The time frame I think we should be focusing on, is the time frame from eighteen months before, right through the general election.  After that, it's too late.

Could we have done better than Bush.  I have always thought we could have.

What scares the hell out me, is that we get this sure bet win in 2012, and we put up someone who doesn't have the chops to do the job.  It is absolutely critical that we do the best job we have done in over thirty years, of vetting people and putting someone in who knows their ass from a hole in the ground.

If they don't understand global dynamics, no sale.
If they don't understand the border issue, no sale.
If they don't understand the need for GitMo, no sale.
If they have praised other people who don't get it, no sale.

Folks, if we get another person who isn't going to do what is right, we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

WE HAVE GOT TO THINK THIS TIME AROUND.  We can't just pick people we like.  We can't buy another Edsel.  It's time to man up and take responsiblity for who we pick.

I’d wager to guess a lot worse things would have happened.

I agree with that.  I still say that once our nomination process was over in 2000 though, the nation was doomed for eight years.  We weren't going to roll things back.  We weren't going to implement Conservative policy.  We were going to coast for eight years, and hand off another failed presidency.

We cannot do that any longer.  We have to be honest with ourselves and do better.

I think too many people here want to make things black and white and the real world doesn’t exist that way.

No it doesn't, but things are at least dark gray and  light gray.  Tell me, do you think it's a big warning sign when the guy on your team not only doesn't abolish a certain department, but he doubles that department's budget in his first term?  That's what Bush did with the Department of Education.  Shouldn't we have abolished that?  Shouldn't we have defunded NPR and PBS?  Shouldn't we demand political equity on our college and university campuses?  Shouldn't we quit providing government dollars to organizations like ACORN, and the rest of the list more than a mile long?

People want purity here the same way the liberals at Daily Kos or DummyUnderground want liberal purity.

I appreciate that argument, because a lot of folks make it.  The sad fact is, we have not gone anywhere near as far to the right, as the Left has taken us in that directon (the Left).

Is our border under control?  Isn't the president supposed to protect the states from being over-run?

Where is our demand for something equally as radical as homosexual marriage, or teaching our youngest children about homosexuality and transvesties?

I could go on for quite a while mentioning things that would curdle your blood, that the left has pushed for and achieved.

Where is our radical agenda?  We ask that our Constitution be adhered to and you'd think we asked for the moon.

It’s not going to happen and the more one side tries for that purity, they lose control to the other side.

You don't get your agenda passed, unless you present that agenda to the public and make the case for it's implementation.

Do we do that?  Hell, right now Boehner can't even sell the concept that building our debt up beyond $14.5 trillion isn't a good idea.

We get one guy to push decent reasoned logic, and then you get John McCain telling the nation that guy is a dolt.

We have no control over our people.  We don't coordinate efforts.   The Republican party is the party of neutered leaders.

I wish it weren't the case, but the Democrats go for the b_lls, and we play kissy kissy.  You don't win battles like that.

Without control, you lose everything.

How did acting like we didn't want to hurt anybody's feelings in the early 2000s, go for us?  Did that keep us in control?

With control, you don’t get everything but you certainly get something.

I'm not going to say that I don't agree with that, because I actually do.  On the other hand, we had control and passed Medicare Part D.

We had the Congress and failed to make changes so the lending industry wouldn't go under.

Yes, having control is excellent, but not if you're going to fritter away opportunity and implement the Left's agenda for them.

When's the last time you saw the Left implement one single bit of our agenda for us?

That’s the reality of it all.

Look, I agree with your focus and enthusiasm, but there are actually more important things than having control. 

If we have control and haven't got a clue what to do with it, what good is having it?

If we spend another eight years doing the back-stroke, we never deserve to be in power again.

Go Tea Party.

[Freedom56v2]

Dude, enhance your calm! We know very little about this at this point or if this is even accurate.

---

You know, your comment really stuck with me. So now we do know what is in bill—largest debt limit increase ever, no real cuts over 10 years because they are using base-line budgeting. Tax increases from obamacare and expiration of Bush tax cuts.

So now that I know, I am not enhancing my calm. If you don’t already, you might want to listen to Limbaugh or Levin (free web rewinds) for their take on the bill and future of country and GOP. If you do, you will understand why I am not enhancing my calm.

[F1reEng1neRed]

If you think about where we started with Obama wanting a “clean” debt limit increase, and then moving to Billions in “revenue” increases, to get what we got, I’ll take it. You forget that we only control 1/2 of Congress and as long as Zero is in the WH, we aren’t going to get anything close to what we want. We have to bide out time. We make our move in 2012. We add seats in the House, take the Senate and WH, and Obamacare goes bye-bye.

If we poison the well before that, we hurt our chances of doing those things. This was no time to get cocky.

[Freedom56v2]

With all due respect, I disagree, and that is OK.

The GOP is now sharing in the glory of passing the largest debt ceiling limit, and the GOP is sharing in the blame if things don’t go as well as everyone hopes in 2012. It is now GOP debt, GOP cuts (or lack of), GOP tax increases. Now the GOP suggested and approved committee can raise taxes...(didn’t we have a committee last fall/winter btw? with a report?, ah, but we need another). What do we pay these folks to do? Certainly not make hard decisions. They took easy way out IMHO. Before it would have been Bamster’s economy, taxes, etc.; now we share in the glory and blame...

I am not cocky. I am just not calm; I am gravely concerned about the continued “bide our time, kick can down the road” approach. Many, including my friends said, Obamacare won’t happen—it did. They said Banking bill won’t happen—it did. A number of bills passed the senate...like Cap and Tax which is now being regulated into law by the EPA...Many said wait till 2010—GOP will defund Obamacare. Many said just wait till the Continuing Resolution—GOP will be able to get some cuts—nothing happened, then they said wait till the Debt Limit Ceiling—nothing (or verry little) happened—(at least according to the folks I read and listen to). Now many, are saying just wait till 2012. I truly hope you and they are right and we fiinally get somewhere in 2012. Tho there are wise folks who say we will not easily repeal Obamacare—not always that easy to gut problem legislation....especially when we are already funding it...unconstitutional, but who cares...

You have a right to your opinion, and it jibes with many of the MSM articles and thinking of GOP leadership like Boehner and McCain. Fine.

However, please don’t tell me “Dude, enhance your calm” Sorry, I am not calm and won’t be as long as we have a radical in White House and limp-limbed leadership in House and Senate.

[F1reEng1neRed]

Would I have liked to have seen a heck of a lot more cuts? Sure, but it wasn't going to happen.

Obama owns this economy now a he knows it. The President always bears the brunt of the wrath of the voters if the economy is bad. One thing we couldn't afford was to have our side blamed for a default, and that's exactly what would've happened. Obviously we know that's far from accurate and far from reality and the House was the only body to pass a bill, while the Senate and Obama were just busy calling everything DOA and issuing veto threats. If we defaulted, we would've just shot ourselves in the foot for what should be a very good 2012 election. For real change to happen, we need the WH back. How would you feel if Obama pulled of re-election and the main reason given was due to the fact our side was blamed for default? Like I said before, there's only so much you can do when you only control 1/2 of Congress. We need to keep our eye on the prize. the WH in 2012 is where it's at and we can't afford to sabotage our chances IMO.

Anyway, I still respect your opinion, but I just don't think our guns aren't big enough for the game were hunting at the moment.

[Freedom56v2]

I see where you are coming from , but then I listen to Levin and Limbaugh and read Heritage Foundation, and their logic is stronger...

According to Limbaugh, basically, we have been ambushed, checkmated, etc. If you don’t listen to him over lunch may wanna consider it—he has a very different take on this than the Fox News talking heads.

Limbaugh can be wrong, but not very often. Hope he is this time and you are right.

As I said, you may change your mind if you read Heritage or listen to these guys and their analysis.