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A Pensioner Under Cain's 9-9-9 Plan
10-17-11 | sklar

Posted on 10/17/2011 2:40:44 PM PDT by sklar

Suppose a pensioner makes $15,000 a year.

Under the current IRS system, they get a personal deduction of $6000 (which would go away under 9-9-9). Their taxable income is $9000. At the 10% rate, they pay $900 to IRS.

Under 9-9-9, they would pay 9% personal tax = $1350, an increase of $450, PLUS a brand new 9% Federal Sales Tax on everything new that they purchase including food household goods, etc.

Unless my calculations are flawed, 9-9-9 would be disastrous for Pensioners on a fixed income.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 999; cain; chat; election; taxes; vanity
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To: clamper1797

Walmart needs more greeters.


21 posted on 10/17/2011 2:59:41 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: sklar
I've been saying for some time that 9-9-9 would be a disaster for people living on fixed incomes--that's primarily our "seasoned citizens."

Seniors generally pay a lower rate on their income and get special exemptions under the current system. Adding a sales tax on to what they would have to pay in the flat 9% tax would be a killer to many.
22 posted on 10/17/2011 3:03:08 PM PDT by Sudetenland (There can be no freedom without God--What man gives, man can take away.)
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To: sklar
The guy is trying to FIX the tax system. I am one of those who would probably get screwed.

Cut him a break.

Eat Democrats.

ML/NJ

23 posted on 10/17/2011 3:07:21 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet
We got Barack Obama because the Media refused to vet him.

I believe Cain's SIGNATURE IDEA should be THOROUGHLY vetted.

If that means asking some stupid questions, so be it.

We're talking about a man who wants to be POTUS and wants to radically change the Tax Structure. Let's talk about it awhile.

24 posted on 10/17/2011 3:08:42 PM PDT by sklar
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To: Sudetenland

“Adding a sales tax on to what they would have to pay..”

That is where most people go astray.

The sales tax is not added. It replaces a multitude of other taxes in the chain of production.

Do yourself a favor and read this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2793957/posts

This site is also useful:

http://999calculator.net/


25 posted on 10/17/2011 3:09:17 PM PDT by BarnacleCenturion (Heartless)
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To: sklar

People who make, sale stuff, stock stuff, ship stuff have to pay high taxes, you end up paying their taxes plus a sales tax. Their tax goes way down, they will start lowering their prices or someone else will make the same product and lower their prices. Someone help me out, am I wrong?


26 posted on 10/17/2011 3:09:56 PM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: sklar

Yes that is true - I stand corrected, although they are both pensions - one from the government and one from an employer.


27 posted on 10/17/2011 3:10:31 PM PDT by Cardhu
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To: sklar

By dramatically reducing taxes on production and imposing more of the federal tax burden in the form of a sales tax, the 9-9-9 plan takes away advantage from overseas manufacturers and makes domestic manufacturers more competitive.

The tax burden on domestic manufacturers is reduced and BOTH domestic and foreign manufacturers have their goods subjected to sales tax.

When combined with the lifting of regulatory burdens that the Republican candidates in general all favor, we can see the return of decent manufacturing jobs and return of economic hope for the grandchildren of these pensioners.

Items like televisions and other consumer goods could be feasible to manufacture in the United States again.

The prices of consumer goods would come down under 9-9-9, offsetting higher sales taxes.

Pensioners have a choice: they can derail tax reform and improving US economic competitiveness by objecting to shifting invisible taxes that they already pay embedded in prices to a visible tax, or they can allow their grandchildren to have some prospect of a decent standard of living and US economic competitiveness.


28 posted on 10/17/2011 3:12:37 PM PDT by Meet the New Boss
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To: sklar

Sir, your question is an honest and earnest and one that deserves attention and respect. Anyone who behaves otherwise is a jerk.

Part of the reason that you’re not getting a straight answer is that nobody really knows. The details of the plan aren’t out. Right now we’re discussing generalizations.

Even if Cain puts out every detail of his plan, in the end he will not be the one writing the bill. That will be congress and Lord knows what they’ll do to it.

With that said, Mr. Cain has reassured us that SS income will not be taxed. My grandparents received a pension from GM, so I’m guessing that you have something similar in addition to SS that you may be concerned about.

Mr. Cain has assured us that he will make sure that seniors and those in poverty will not be harmed by his plan.

I cannot see things like food and medicine being allowed to be taxed by congress. That plan simply won’t pass.

What the others are saying about the 9% sales tax not being a concern is true. The prices of goods will drop once the corporate tax drops and free market competition takes effect.

Congress will not pass a bill that destroys the elderly. Mr. Cain has no desire to hurt the disabled and the elderly.

Your country will take care of you. There are tens of millions of Boomers who’d never allow the new tax system to destroy their retirement. Believe it or not, those of us in the younger generations have no desire to hurt ‘grandma and grandpa’ either.


29 posted on 10/17/2011 3:13:24 PM PDT by Marie (Cain 9s Have Teeth)
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To: Utmost Certainty
Price of goods would decrease under 999 since it does away with the various embedded taxes: http://999calculator.net/

Some people are born to be tools.

From the website in its laughable attempt to justify the alleged "built in 22%" tax rate.

"On average, 22% of the price of most consumer products is incorporated into the price to cover the average corporate tax rate of 35%. If that corporate tax rate is reduced to 9%, that 22% is reduced to about 6% (using the ratio 35%:22%, 9%:6%)

Even semi-intelligent people ought to be offended by the insult of that statement.

The current corporate tax is on profits after all expenses, cost of goods and labor, other taxes, loopholes and incentives are deducted which includes all kinds of deductions permitting major corporations like GE to pay nothing in corporate tax. Unless the profit is 90% on the sale of any goods, there is no way that a the corporate income taxes on profits will even comes close to 22% in the price of goods and products.

The whole premise is fraud and whoever promotes it is a tool.

30 posted on 10/17/2011 3:14:10 PM PDT by The Theophilus (Obama's Key to win 2012: Ban Haloperidol)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet

This is a serious question and deserves an answer.


31 posted on 10/17/2011 3:14:31 PM PDT by Marie (Cain 9s Have Teeth)
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To: waynesa98
The estimated federal tax already imposed on all purchases is about 22%.

How is that estimated?

Also there are exceptions for poverty level working poor.

No there aren't.

32 posted on 10/17/2011 3:15:02 PM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the majority of the criticism (NO, MAKE THAT "ATTACKS") against Cain and his "999" plan is coming from so-called Republicans, never mind, "Conservatives" and I'm just a little disappointed (nay, ashamed) that there are sooooo many here at FR???

Why is questioning the details of the 9-9-9 plan and the claims made by its supports 'attacking' it? Are we supposed to accept without question or discussion anything that Cain (or Perry or Gingrich or Bachmann depending on the thread) proposes like good little robots?

33 posted on 10/17/2011 3:17:51 PM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: sklar
Unless my calculations are flawed, 9-9-9 would be disastrous for Pensioners on a fixed income.

Yes, it would be.......A typical pensioner no longer saves, their pension goes to pay their debts, bills and everyday purchases. An additional 9% Federal tax would be disastrous to the majority of them.........

34 posted on 10/17/2011 3:18:36 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (ui)
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To: sklar

Speaking as someone who is retired, retired folks owe taxes too. So do people who make 15K each year. EVERYONE should be paying taxes, and not sponge off of others.

If the 50% who currently pay no taxes, including many who get money ‘back’ without ever paying any, had to PAY taxes, then MAYBE they would want to CUT SPENDING!


35 posted on 10/17/2011 3:22:07 PM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: CMAC51

There is also an additional tax on savings, already taxed once through the income tax, due to the sales tax. Seniors get screwed as it stands.


36 posted on 10/17/2011 3:22:29 PM PDT by expatpat
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To: The Theophilus
My thoughts as well. When this monstrosity gets out of committee--let alone Congress--it will resemble nothing like what Cain is claiming. The will be set asides, special exemptions and the % sales tax will be greater than his originally proposed 9%.

I'm open to being corrected on this, but at first and second blush, I find the whole idea dangerous and flawed.

So far all of the so-called "explanations" to which I have been directed have been assumptions and deflections. "Cain has promised that SSI will be exempt." Okay, it was exempt before--until a Democrat got through with it, now we pay taxes on half or every dollar we receive.

Between that and the 22% assumption, I begin to worry. I get very worried when someone begins discussing making "a fundamental change" in America--haven't we just had one of those? Isn't it destroying America as we grew up to understand it?
37 posted on 10/17/2011 3:27:39 PM PDT by Sudetenland (There can be no freedom without God--What man gives, man can take away.)
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To: Marie
Believe it or not, those of us in the younger generations have no desire to hurt ‘grandma and grandpa’ either.

Except for the ones who are followers of Bill Ayers- "Kill your parents...that's where it's at!"

38 posted on 10/17/2011 3:29:11 PM PDT by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: Marie

I’ve re-read the original post several times, and can’t find a question.

All I see is false information being put out as a fact.


39 posted on 10/17/2011 3:29:24 PM PDT by Politicalmom (I am intrigued and open to the Bush administrationÂ’s amnesty proposal. -Rick Perry)
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To: Mr Rogers
If the 50% who currently pay no taxes, including many who get money ‘back’ without ever paying any, had to PAY taxes, then MAYBE they would want to CUT SPENDING!

OK now THAT is a good point for the Cain side. Well said!

I just want to have a THOROUGH discussion of 9-9-9 before the Cain Train leaves the station, and a (possibly) flawed discredited Signature Plan is hung around our necks like a millstone.

40 posted on 10/17/2011 3:33:01 PM PDT by sklar
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