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Gingrich 'prepared to take the heat' with talk of amnesty ("Let's be humane in enforcing the law")
The Los Angeles Times ^ | 2011-11-22 | Kim Geiger

Posted on 11/22/2011 7:54:13 PM PST by rabscuttle385

Edited on 11/22/2011 8:03:27 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]


(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Politics/Elections; US: California; US: Georgia
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To: Clemenza
Image of people who hide behind computer that glorifies the mafia and picks on Mother Teresa

;
641 posted on 11/28/2011 8:35:54 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi

LOL. Actually, I lost 30 pounds, and have a bit more hair. Nice to see you took the bait, St. Fascismo.


642 posted on 11/28/2011 8:37:35 PM PST by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
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To: Clemenza

The mafia lovers adore the fascist. Look no further thsn your homepage , smartguy


643 posted on 11/28/2011 8:42:32 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: DoughtyOne
The room was run by the illegal immigrant children, and they ganged up on my kid during recess breaks too.

I think this group would fall into the cateory that I would cut off and depart, somewhere between category 1 - the felons and category 2- the welfare queens.

644 posted on 11/29/2011 6:12:01 AM PST by AndyJackson
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To: Clemenza
I think you just strapped on a bomb, stepped out into the public square and blowed yourself up, real good.

You might as well get a new screen name, because you are never ever ever going to live down that statement.

645 posted on 11/29/2011 6:17:30 AM PST by AndyJackson
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To: stfassisi
Please note the part of the above clipping in red. Americans do voluteer their time, and at rates far in excess of people in other nations.

This only proves that we need to puff ourselves up. A true giver hides what they do from statistics and are not counted by them.

You stated that people in other natioins were just as generous with their funds as the people in the United States are.  I knew that was wrong and I found something to buttress my beliefs.  Then you morphed the topic to what a 'true believer' should do.  Puffing ourselves up?  Wow!  Charitable organizations are audited.  They report to the IRS.  It's public record what their receipts are.

As for claiming donations on your tax return to lessen your tax obligations, what's wrong with that?  Would you rather the federal government get the funds to squander rather than good causes.

Other than these factors, I have no idea what you're talking about when you say folks need to puff themselves up, and need to hide what they give.  I don't know anyone personally who brags about how much they give.  Evidently you run in different circles than I do.

That's a very nice well intended comment. I do not however think that as a father or mother, people should be serving the poor as if they were their slaves. Charitable giving in reasoned amounts is good. Volunteering is fine. So is supporting your family through attendence in their efforts. So is sitting on your posterior and clearing your mind during the week. Keeping in close contact with your children's activities, whether it be studies or extra-curricular activites is also serving the Lord. Spending time with the family in other ways is also healthy.

I know people that do all these things you say and still serve the poor as if they are slaves to them.  No you don't.  If you're being a slave to charitable organizations, some other aspect of your life will suffer.

What does that make you? Lazy?  It makes me a well rounded individual.  "..moderation in all things..."  Ring any bells?

Soros gives money away to his tax deductable non-profits.

And somehow you think that many of the people in the statistics you posted don't do the same  The people I know give money to concerns that benefit people in need.  Soros gives to organizations that will manipulate our system of government, our society for the worse.  Sadly, you couldn't understand this on your own, evidently.

You actually put me in an awkward position here, because I don't have a penchant for taking these individuals to task. I still think there is plenty of reason to object to some of these simplistic platitudes.

Compared to Saint Clement it is you who are simplistic. I doubt anyone will quote D-one from FR as being some scholar of love and knowledge, I also doubt anyone would quote me either

My comments stand.  I'm not here to have folks quote me.  I am here to express my thoughts.  There's nothing evil about that.  If my thoughts do awaken folks to the idea that their number one responsibility on this earth is their family, then friends, then others, all the better.  Outside activity, including charitable giving and volunteerism comes second to that.  God does not expect me to put my close associates on the back burner.

While this sounds good on the face of it, it is patently irrational bordering on the absurd. <> At some point in your life you will be thought of as a nothing so it would be better to let go of your pride now while you can  When people grow up, they realize what others think about them is not important.  What is important is what you think of yourself.  What is important is that you can look back on your life and see value to what you have done.  Of course God and others should figure prominantly in that vision, but that is what is important in life.

It is also a fact that the more successful we are, the more we can monetarily support good causes.

Complete nonsense. People like Saint Padre Pio did more for the poor than you or I or will ever do  How would you know this?  According to you, people who do good works should do them in private?  Obviously he does it for recognition, and isn't truly a good person.  /s  Do you begin to see the absurdity of your own comments?

I will pray that the fall you're headed for is lessened  I have no problem with that.  I would simply suggest you pray for personal enlightenment as well.


646 posted on 11/29/2011 9:46:16 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: AndyJackson

I hear ya.


647 posted on 11/29/2011 10:00:09 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: DoughtyOne
You stated that people in other natioins were just as generous with their funds as the people in the United States are. I knew that was wrong and I found something to buttress my beliefs. Then you morphed the topic to what a 'true believer' should do. Puffing ourselves up? Wow!

If you bothered to read what I wrote(or you're suffering memory loss-sarcasm)I did not mention funds as the only means of generosity,I mentioned generosity as acts like giving a poor person a glass of water and stated in post #634 that it's not the amount given that matters. So, it is you who morphs everything into terms of funds. WOW!:-)

You said.."No you don't." to me, referring that somehow I don't know people who serve the poor as if they are slaves to them along with doing other family activities and other things you mentioned.

You're wrong ,I do know people like this. Do you realize FR has rules against saying someone lied in personal matters that can't be disputed?

It makes me a well rounded individual. "..moderation in all things.

Puffing yourself up again? Some words of wisdom for you.. love builds up but pride puffs up

You Said,referring to Saint Pio...How would you know this? According to you, people who do good works should do them in private?

The beauty of those who serve God humbly through extreme acts of love for others is that people witness these things because they transform lives of people- even though the one who loves others to such extremes wants no recognition whatsoever

Saint Pio would say the following to people's lives touched by him or by a miracle... "Please don't thank me ,thank God for this...All I did was pray for you"-Saint Pio

You may have the last word,dear brother. There is no need to continue.

I will pray for you at Adoration this Thursday

648 posted on 11/29/2011 3:55:14 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: AndyJackson

To paraphrase Meir Kehane, I only say what alot of people think, but are afraid to say due to upper middle class political correctness. If you think that Jose and Maria and their feral children look at you as a “brother” you are deluding yourself.


649 posted on 11/29/2011 6:06:21 PM PST by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
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To: Clemenza
Your words were "Wal Mart has done more for the poor than Mother Teresa, who preached a slave morality ..."

What does this irrelevant spiteful rant have to do with Jose and Maria. Like I said, you blowed yourself up. Real good.

650 posted on 11/30/2011 5:52:53 AM PST by AndyJackson
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To: stfassisi
You stated that people in other natioins were just as generous with their funds as the people in the United States are. I knew that was wrong and I found something to buttress my beliefs. Then you morphed the topic to what a 'true believer' should do. Puffing ourselves up? Wow!

If you bothered to read what I wrote (or you're suffering memory loss-sarcasm) I did not mention funds as the only means of generosity, I mentioned generosity as acts like giving a poor person a glass of water and stated in post #634 that it's not the amount given that matters. So, it is you who morphs everything into terms of funds. WOW! :-)

Okay, lets see what points you touched on here.

1. If I bothered to read...
2. If I wasn't suffering memory loss...
3. You didn't mention funds as the only means of generosity...
4. You mentioned physical acts of generosity...
5. It's not the amount given that matters...
6. So it is supposedly me who morphs everything to a monetary standard...
7. WOW!
8. :-)

In all honesty, I'm not really enjoying this.  I know you mean well, but some of the things you state cause me not to be able to walk off without responding.  There are reasoned education level rebuttles, and I am compelled to make them.

I did bother to read what you stated.1  I did not suffer memory less when responding to it.2  Here is one of the things you stated.

"There is only complexity of this issue because of man’s lack of ability to love others and respect the fact that the entire earth was open for everyone to live wherever one chooses too live." R LINK

I chose to respond to the issue highlighted with this.

Man does not have an inability to love others.R  U.S. citizens and corporations paid out $290 billion dollars in charitable giving in 2010.R  LINK  Our government pays out approaching half a trillion dollars per year to U. S. citizens who supposedly need help, even if they don't.R  We error on the side of handing out freebies in excess, simply so we won't be seen as uncaring.R

We donate at church, at work, to the Salvation Army, to a myriad of concerns too numerous to mention.  We donate to local schools.  We donate on a whim if a neighbor or someone at work is going though a rough time.  If the school athletic team needs new equipment, we pitch in.  If the local symphony has a need, we pitch in.  If a homeless shelter needs help, we volunteer our time.3, 4, 5

We do these things because we have an inherent drive to help others.  Please don't forget this in your haste to list the evils of man.  There is that too, but man is also a noble being.  LINK

Well, did I only address the monetary side of things here?  No.  I also touched on personal physical involvement.  In another post I touched on it in more detail.  Here I'd like to remind you that we volunteer our time for family, friends, neighbors, and other people in need.  At the office we chip in to celebrate birthdays for those we barely know.  At the supermarket we allow others to go in front of us if they only have one item and we have a lot of items.  These are acts of kindness, or an expression of love or caring for others.  Here's that other information I provided.

In this post LINK you stated, "There is goodness in many people, not just Americans..."  I responded with...
<>Q. Are Americans more or less charitable than citizens of other countries?

A. No developed country approaches American giving. For example, in 1995 (the most recent year for which data are available), Americans gave, per capita, three and a half times as much to causes and charities as the French, seven times as much as the Germans, and 14 times as much as the Italians. Similarly, in 1998, Americans were 15 percent more likely to volunteer their time than the Dutch, 21 percent more likely than the Swiss, and 32 percent more likely than the Germans.3, 4, 5 These differences are not attributable to demographic characteristics such as education, income, age, sex, or marital status. On the contrary, if we look at two people who are identical in all these ways except that one is European and the other American, the probability is still far lower that the European will volunteer than the American.3, 4, 5   LINK
LINK

So at this late date, who is still harping on the monetary?  I even highlighted the text above in red for you.  So tell me, is it me who is fixated on the monetary, or is it you?

I did address the non monetary portion of man's generosity to man.  You simply ignored it in your zeal to correct me.7, 8

You said.."No you don't." to me, referring that somehow I don't know people who serve the poor as if they are slaves to them along with doing other family activities and other things you mentioned.

You're wrong, I do know people like this. Do you realize FR has rules against saying someone lied in personal matters that can't be disputed?

Perhaps we're suffering a difference in comprehension about what a slave is.  Do you really understand what is being said here?

A slave is a person who...
<>1. is owned by a master
2. has no income
3. has no earthly posessions
4. spends all waking hours doing the master's bidding
5. spends only the amount of time alotted by the master (if any at all) with his family (although the word family does not actually exist for a slave)
6. the slave, their spouse and children are considered to be no more than cattle to a master
7. the slave's spouse can be sold or gifted to another master
8. the slave's children can be sold or gifted to another master
9. the slave can be sold or gifted to another master
10. the slave has no privacy with his family
11. the slave can be sired or impregnated against their will to another slave on the master's plantation
12. the slave can be beaten or mutilated as per the master's whim
13. the slave can be killed on the master's whim

I said no you don't.  I did not say you lied.  I remain unconvinced that you know anyone who has enslaved themselves.  If you don't, then it's a simple thing to admit.  I believe the admonition itself was well-intended, but hollow and sadly misguided.  Enslaving one's self to anyone or anything is wrong.  Even Jesus does not ask us to enslave ourselves to Him.  He asks us to follow Him willingly.  A slave does nothing purely out of willingness, because he will be physically forced if he doesn't do it.  Jesus does not force us to do anything.  In this life, we are given the power of choice.  Slaves are not.

It makes me a well rounded individual. "..moderation in all things.

If you're going to quote me, I would apprecaite it if you would quote me with context.

This was the exchange which prompted the above comments.

I know people that do all these things you say and still serve the poor as if they are slaves to them.  No you don't.  If you're being a slave to charitable organizations, some other aspect of your life will suffer.

What does that make you? Lazy?  It makes me a well rounded individual.  "...moderation in all things..."  Ring any bells?

Puffing yourself up again? Some words of wisdom for you.. love builds up but pride puffs up

You asked me a direct question on a personal level.  I responded with a direct answer on a personal level.  I was not bragging.  I was merely restating a belief.  I believe that people who work, spend time with family, friends, and associates, donate funds, and spend their time doing good things for others are well rounded people.  I do believe in the theory of 'moderation in all things', even if they are good, and I expressed that.

I am not trying to put you down here.  I am merely saying that you mean well, but are somewhat misquided with your admonishments.  Man's sole responsability is not to others less fortunate.  If it were, then man's family would quickly turn to being less fortunate.  That would be theft of something that wasn't man's to give.  A man owes his family personal time, for mental and spiritual growth and well being.  He owes them shared personal time for pleasure and instruction.  As part of that, I do believe it is his duty to instill the concepts of giving to his family as well, but that concept must not consume man above all else.

You Said,referring to Saint Pio...How would you know this? According to you, people who do good works should do them in private?

The beauty of those who serve God humbly through extreme acts of love for others is that people witness these things because they transform lives of people- even though the one who loves others to such extremes wants no recognition whatsoever

Up thread I mentioned to you that U. S. Citizens donate over $290 billion dollars per year to charitable organizations, and that they donated their time far in excess of people from other nations.  Your response to this WAS NOT to say, "Wow, that's great!".  It was to tell me they were doing it for recognition, not out of the kindness of their hearts.  I don't know the charitable giving of anyone other than myself.  These people must be doing a terrible job of broadcasting how good they are based on their donations.  From time to time I hear of gifts, but I am not a person who faults others who give publicly.  Public giving encourages others to give donations.  It's a form of witnessing.  "I give to others.  It feels good to do it.  Try it yourself.  You'll feel good about yourself."  This is not evil.

The person who donates a large sum of money to have something named after the family, is not evil.  His donation will improve the lives of hundreds of thousands of people.  His reward is having folks know that his family cared enough about others to do it, and you think that is evil?  Really?  You have a very low threshold for seeing evil in others my friend.

Saint Pio would say the following to people's lives touched by him or by a miracle... "Please don't thank me ,thank God for this...All I did was pray for you"-Saint Pio

If a person goes out of his way to help others and they say thank you, the proper response is to say you're welcome.  You don't say, don't thank me, thank God.  If you wish to say you did it because you were inspired by God, I'm all for it.  I do believe persons should take credit for what they do that is good.  It encourages them to do the same.  If people think only God is responsible, then why should they lift a finger to help others?  If all you did for them was pray for them and their plight was improved, then of course all credit goes to God, and His messenger.

You may have the last word,dear brother. There is no need to continue.

I will pray for you at Adoration this Thursday

Do you understand what you did by saying this?  You explained to me that you were going to do something good on my behalf.  You do understand that right?  You did it publicly, so others could read it.  You do understand that right?  So you purposefully said something that would cast a certain positive light on you, instead of just doing it without telling me in public.

After you so craftily trashing others for doing things for personal gain, and explaining they did this to puff themselves up, how could you do this?

I'm not putting down the act.  I am merely using your yardstick to measure what your motives were.  I am not upset that you will pray for me at all.  I am merely asking you to take a good long hard look at yourself.

There is an often told story of a man who was stranded on a desert island.  He prayed to God for deliverance, in desperation.  Along came people with a helicopter, a boat, and a submarine offering a way off the island.  The stranded man refused, saying God would intervene.  The man died on the island.  In heaven he confronted God.  I prayed and you didn't save me.  God looked at him and said, "I sent you a helicopter, a boat, and a submarine."

Your story is somewhat different.

A destitute man and his family needed help.  They prayed to God for relief.  A man with a truck with a business name on it came to the door and offered his personal time to clean up the yard, landscape and paint the house.  The man refused the help, because people would have known the business that provided it at no cost.  A man from the United Way came by and offered the family a check.  The man declined to take it because he knew the people who donated the funds got a tax deduction for it.  Another man came by with a wad of cash, but he asked to be able to witness so others would do the same thing for other people in need.  The man declined to take it because the man giving the cash was pious.  Family members got sick.  His son could have gotten help at a hospital with a wing that was specifically focused on his son's ailment, but the wing had been name for someone.  He refused.  His son died.  Much the same thing happened to his wife.  A women's center that had been built with donated funds, and named after the person who donated the most.  The man declined to send his wife there.  She died also.  Finally the Lord sent an angel to the man.  The angel asked, why did you allow your family accept this fate?  The man said, "I wanted to make sure we only benefited from righteous works or funds."  The angel responded, "Despite what you thought about those works or funds, they would have improved your and your family's lot and saved your son and wife's lives, and that would have been good.  God is saddened by your plight, but it was your judgmental thoughts that caused your and their loss.  Doing good things is not limited to doing it without recogniztion, without some small personal benefit, or without being a perfect person before you donate.  Good is good.  Evil is evil.  God is saddened by your evil heart."

Man expresses his love for others all the time.  I'm sorry you didn't know this.  God works in mysterious ways.  Be still and know that He is God, and you are not.


651 posted on 11/30/2011 10:59:31 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: Ingtar

Newt is turning into the worst one. “The Manchurian Candidate”?


652 posted on 11/30/2011 11:06:42 AM PST by Jane Austen (Boycott the Philadelphia Eagles!)
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To: DoughtyOne

Since I promised you the last word I will leave you with words not from me to reflect upon...

Be attentive to the thoughts of the mind. If some evil thought passes through you, do not get upset, for it is not the transient thoughts of your mind that the knowledge of the Lord of all observes, rather He looks at the depths of the mind to see if you take pleasure in that evil thought which resides there; for hateful thoughts float over the surface of the mind, but it is the senses that are lower down which can chase away hateful thoughts, which the Lord of all examines. He does not judge what just passes over the mind, but rather the thoughts that are lower down than those hateful ones, namely those which appear in the depths of the mind, which can drive them away with its hidden hand. For He does not pardon the thoughts which spring up from the depth of the mind, for it is they which should be chasing away those which pass over the surface of the mind; He judges those thoughts which have a passage into the heart.-Saint John the Solitary


653 posted on 11/30/2011 11:43:14 AM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi

That is a very beautiful and wise passage. Who was John the Solitary?


654 posted on 11/30/2011 11:49:40 AM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: little jeremiah

A few things about him...

http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsLife.asp?FSID=101756

http://jts.oxfordjournals.org/content/XXX/1/84.extract


655 posted on 11/30/2011 11:59:20 AM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi

Since I promised you the last word I will leave you with words not from me to reflect upon...

While I recognize your 'attempt to appear' to remain true to your statement, offering up someone else's words was an end run, and we both know it.

You did not give me the last word.  You gave a third party the last word, namely Saint John the Solitary.

I did not ask you to give me the last word.  For myself, I am not unhappy that you didn't give it to me.  I am not unhappy that you provided the words of a good man to guide or inform.  I merely think it is important that we be honest with ourselves as well as one another.  I will admit to being saddened for you, to see you be dishonest with yourself, to not do something you stated you would.

Be attentive to the thoughts of the mind. If some evil thought passes through you, do not get upset, for it is not the transient thoughts of your mind that the knowledge of the Lord of all observes, rather He looks at the depths of the mind to see if you take pleasure in that evil thought which resides there; for hateful thoughts float over the surface of the mind, but it is the senses that are lower down which can chase away hateful thoughts, which the Lord of all examines. He does not judge what just passes over the mind, but rather the thoughts that are lower down than those hateful ones, namely those which appear in the depths of the mind, which can drive them away with its hidden hand. For He does not pardon the thoughts which spring up from the depth of the mind, for it is they which should be chasing away those which pass over the surface of the mind; He judges those thoughts which have a passage into the heart.-Saint John the Solitary

It is my take that this was probably written long ago.  It is my take that it was probably written by a person cloistered off alone, or in a group of others dedicated to pondering religious matters.  It is my take that it was written by a good person, doing their honest best to think of man operating on the highest moral plane.  And I'm reasonably sure it was in correlation with communing with God through prayer.  I don't have anything negative to say about these thoughts or others like them.  I do however wonder if at times even the best of people can be so focused on good, that they lose sight of what will be relevant and instructional to the average man.

It is the aveage man that needs to benefit from moral declarations like this.  They need to be able to incorporate these tenets into their own lives.  And with regard to that, it seems to me that simplicity counts.  These words were probably written in a time when most of the populace couldn't read, and wouldn't have had any clear access to them.  Even so, the length of the sentences and rambling nature add complexity to ideas that are fairly simple and clean cut.

What I am left contemplating, is whether this was truly beneficial to his fellow man circa the writing of these works. If written in solitude, it seem these writings were more self-gratifying than for the edification of others, at least in the period when they were written.  Even then, I am not going to attach any evil motive or weight to it.  I make no judgment other than to ponder the matter.  I still think this man was a good man, and had the best of intentions.

From my observations in life, I have determined that once a person focuses on a cause, there is a danger of becoming obsessive in that cause.  People advocating on behalf of the environment, run the risk of going to the extreme.  People who think women should have a choice, lose sight of anything else.  Many people who think there should be far less animals destroyed for food, somehow make the choice to avoid any animal byproducts at all.  If you ask them why, many can't even give you a reason.  They were somehow convinced it was the right thing to do, without justification they can relate.

I want to be respectful here, but I do not believe that religion is free from the gravity of this pull towards focused extremity.  That is why I have never been particularly supportive of cloistered lives.  I am not particularly supportive of lives given over totally in every aspect to a good cause, even religion.  Yes, live a good Godly life, and in that I agree to do it fully.  I support that.  But witnessing to your community is every bit as important as going off somewhere, cutting yourself off from higher levels of civilization, and living every moment in poverty.  Being a good husband, a good father, a good member of the community, is every bit as important as any task God gives us.

I do not believe that this world would be a better place if everyone quit work, sold off everything they owned, and went off to the mission field never to be heard from again.  Doing a tour through a mission field?  Fine.  I'm all for it.  Totally emersing yourself there for the rest of your life?  No.

Charity?  I'm all for it.  Totally emersing yourself in that work for the rest of your life?  No.

I say this, because our civilization would collapse under that type of plan.  Scientific study that benefits each of us would cease to exist.  Advancements in Medicine would cease to exist.  Advanced medical provision to the masses would cease to exist.  Provision of food for the masses would cease to exist.  Higher levels of civilized existence would cease to exist.  The negatives of this would far outweigh the nice things that could be accomplished by volunteering the rest of our lives to pockets of the poor in unpaid servitude.

If this model were the right one, then everyone should do it.  If it were the right one, no harm would come.  If that were to take place, and undeniable damage would be done to very important aspects of today's civilization would materialize, then that cannot be God's plan.  God is good.  Evil, bad things, do not emerge from His overall plan for man.

Slavery to our fellow man is not an aspect of God's overall game plan for humanity.

Where I have a problem with the quote from you above, is what might have caused you to present it to me.

If between two friends tying to edify each other, I think it has merit.  If presented in a simpler form to a congregation or study group, I'm all for it.  It could obviosly be instructional.  If cut and pasted as a tool to convict someone, I think it is being used as a weapon rather than a beacon.

It's my take that you have once again placed yourself in a position of judgment, and recognizing that I myself am doing the same thing by responding in this manner, I'll leave it to you to search your soul and determine what to make of this.

I am releasing you from your promise to give me the last word.  If you don't wish to continue this discussion, I will repsect your decision.



656 posted on 11/30/2011 1:01:30 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: stfassisi

Thank you, I will look. After I asked you, I realized that I could search (haha) and did some reading. What a wise and good man!


657 posted on 11/30/2011 1:38:59 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: stfassisi

I’ve got that passage saved and will read more. I think his observation about the mind not only perfectly true but written clearly. Such teaching is also taught in the tradition I follow.

Truth is truth!


658 posted on 11/30/2011 1:41:49 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: BillyBoy
Newt: If you've been here 25 years and you got three kids and two grandkids, you've been paying taxes and obeying the law, you belong to a local church. I don't think we're going to separate you from your family, uproot you forcefully and kick you out.

obviously the solution is to send the entire illegal family tree back to Mexico; duh.

659 posted on 11/30/2011 2:13:46 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: little jeremiah

You probably would really enjoy the writings of the Early Orthodox Church Fathers like Saint Gregory of Nyssa,Saint Symeon,St. Gregory Palamas,St Isaac of Nineveh and a few others.

St Isaac of Nineveh wrote the following..

“Sometimes... the intellect is taken away from it as if into heaven, and tears fall like fountains of waters, involuntarily soaking the whole face. All this time such a person is serene, still and filled with a wonder-filled vision. Very often he will not be allowed even to pray: this in truth is the state of cessation above prayer when he remains continually in amazement at God’s work of creation - like people who are crazed by wine, for this is ‘the wine which causes the person’s heart to rejoice’... Blessed is the person who has entered this door in the experience of his own soul, for all the power of ink, letters and phrases is too feeble to indicate the delight of this mystery.”

... and from St. Gregory Palamas...

God makes Himself known not only through all that is but also through what is not, through transcendence, that is, through uncreated things, and also through an eternal light that transcends all beings”. This knowledge, he says, is offered today as a kind of pledge to those who are worthy of it and which “illuminates them unendingly in the unending age”. That is just why the saints’ vision of God is true, “and he who calls it false has strayed from the divine knowledge of God” . Thus anyone who ignores and disregards the vision of God, which offers true knowledge, is in reality ignorant of God.


660 posted on 11/30/2011 4:07:30 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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