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Three Ugly Truths Exposed by the Tebow Assault
American Thinker ^ | December 27, 2011 | Timothy Gordon

Posted on 12/27/2011 5:21:08 AM PST by rhema

The ongoing imbroglio with Denver Bronco quarterback Tim Tebow has made plain three really unflattering facts about the secular-progressive ("sec-prog") movement in this country. Tebow's straightforward and unapologetic Christianity has been received by NFL mensae magnae (contradiction in terms?) as a type of threat. These folks have responded by building upon the previously gathered strength of the anti-Christian movement in this nation. Such a movement, by the way, is far more prevalent than it formerly appeared.

First truth: the sec-progs have meatier game in sight than we used to think. That is, when sec-progs start out declaring that they aim merely to set a plain whereupon all religions can fairly "coexist," they really contemplate an end-game where religions fade permanently out of view. Have a look at the emergent history of the jurisprudence: "No federal religion" became "no state religions"; this became "no government entanglement with religion"; this became "no governmental support for religion"; this became "no governmental mention of religion"; this led to the phase that the Tebow debacle currently evinces: "no popular mention of religion in any public sphere, including private affairs which get viewed on TV." One can easily imagine the last few steps in this phenomenology of disappearance.

Coming back to Tebow, let's remember that his comparatively subtle iconographic decorum has managed to stir up the hornets' nest to a startling degree: recent betrayals by active (Lions players Stephen Tulloch and Tony Scheffler) and especially retired (Merrill Hodge and Jake Plummer) players lack all response-to-stimulus proportionality and sound more like personal defensive responses to some governmental actor threatening the players' own religious liberty. That is, all such ugliness over Tebow taking to his own knee in thanks, or occasionally mentioning the J-word after a game, exposes a fetid, rotten sort of secularism at the heart of

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; US: Colorado; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: christianity; denverbroncos; nfl; secprog; tebow; timtebow
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To: hosepipe
Note: I like things simple too but some things are just not that simple.. or simplistic.. Smart Alec's HATE THAT..

Occam's razor.....

51 posted on 12/27/2011 2:38:33 PM PST by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: Revolting cat!

LOL oh man I made that mistake once here.

I’m not even a mac guy. I’m a hardcore PC gamer that buildings 5K+ systems like the back of my hand.

I put ONE tiny response to a thread once that my work phone Android sucked, and that my personal Iphone + macbook air combo for my on the go “Manhattanite lifestyle” (good grief!) couldn’t be matched at price and parts quality and usability in mobile, by pc/driod makers at this time... I literally got flamed for like I think 60 posts, totally derailing the topic of the OP.

LOL


52 posted on 12/27/2011 2:41:34 PM PST by Individual Rights in NJ (Infidel Inside)
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To: donmeaker; cowboyway; hosepipe
[cowboyway] [ FR member donmeaker has proudly proclaimed his paganism and has flatly stated on FR that he believes that Christianity is a pagan religion. ]


[hosepipe] NOT all christians are christians.. theres an element of truth to what Meaker says..

FReeper donmeaker, you've been called out.

53 posted on 12/27/2011 3:18:05 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: hosepipe

Stick to your day job. You suck as a preacher or analyst of religions.


54 posted on 12/27/2011 4:06:17 PM PST by RightOnline
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To: central_va
Conversely, Al-Tebow would be slagged into a puddle of "He's an Anti-American" ridicule and scorn here.

Asinine comparison. When Christian fundamentalist start slamming airliners in to buildings in Manhattan, then you can make your stupid moral equivalence.

Asinine? It's spot on. The comparison regards the public expressions of one's faith. This site is filled to overflowing with "my sect/denomination is better than yours." Islam, Buddhism? OMG!!! To speak nothing of the slagging that Mormonism gets.
55 posted on 12/27/2011 4:21:52 PM PST by Goldsborough
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To: veritas2002

The Liberal death wish is becoming a reality.

But we must not forget that the Soviet Union dissolved on Christmas Day.

Pope John Paul II said: “BE NOT AFRAID.”


56 posted on 12/27/2011 6:03:04 PM PST by victim soul
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To: veritas2002

The Liberal death wish is becoming a reality.

But we must not forget that the Soviet Union dissolved on Christmas Day.

Pope John Paul II said: “BE NOT AFRAID.”


57 posted on 12/27/2011 6:03:18 PM PST by victim soul
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To: veritas2002

The Liberal death wish is becoming a reality.

But we must not forget that the Soviet Union dissolved on Christmas Day.

Pope John Paul II said: “BE NOT AFRAID.”


58 posted on 12/27/2011 6:03:25 PM PST by victim soul
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To: cowboyway

[ Occam’s razor..... ]

Occam had a Boston Blackie mustache..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pencil_Thin_Mustache


59 posted on 12/27/2011 6:37:40 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: lentulusgracchus

[ FReeper donmeaker, you’ve been called out. ]

LoL... If anything I’m don UNmeaker..


60 posted on 12/27/2011 6:42:55 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: RightOnline

[ Stick to your day job. You suck as a preacher or analyst of religions. ]

I feel the hate.. Hate is accepted gratefully but graded..


61 posted on 12/27/2011 6:46:13 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: Goldsborough

You are FOS.


62 posted on 12/27/2011 7:24:47 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: hosepipe
Example: Jesus name is not Jesus, nor is Jehovah's name Jehova.. Neither Hebrew/Aramaic or Greek has the letter “J”..

No, His name is Yeshua. The English translation from the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name "Yeshua" gets us to "Jesus".

Studying these things to me is more fun than stuff like string theory/quantum mechanics, which I enjoy.



Where there's a shell, there's a way.

25 years ago, we had Ronald Reagan, Johnny Cash, and Bob Hope.
Today we have Obama, no cash, and no hope!

If you can't appreciate the pure beauty of the violin after hearing this, something's wrong with your ears.

Or you can get raw with these strings.

How about this gamechanger from America's Got Talent (which they SHOULD have won).

Either way, the violin is sweet yet LETHAL.

Do it!

63 posted on 12/27/2011 7:40:05 PM PST by rdb3 (><>The mouth is the exhaust pipe of the heart. <><)
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To: lentulusgracchus

I see Christianity as a modern heir to the ancient nature religions, seeking to use similar means to answer the same old questions: Why are we here? What is good? What are we do do?

The Pope’s of the Roman Catholic Church has an elected head who’s title in Latin is Pontifex Maximus, the same title given to the head priest in ancient Rome. The ancient religions were always transmuting, and modern religions continue to do so. Latin Jupiter was a transmutation of Greek Zeus-Pater, or English [sky]G-d the Father.

Humanity seems to demand religion, and some prefer to justify their belief by ancient texts that are unquestionable to believers. The texts can be the Torah, the Bhagavad-gita, the writings of Virgil, or the New Testament, the Koran, or the Book of Mormon. Each claims to be the best, and last, and rejects the others as either heresy if newer, or ‘incomplete’ if old.

Christianity had synods which defined what Christianity was, but demands of people change, problems and situations change, so that generates a need for another synod, later reformations, or in the case of Methodists, annual meetings. Rather like the Romans had colleges of priests, to decide what practices were permitted, or proscribed. One year Isis was permitted, the next year banned, in response to corruption of the priesthood. Alas, the Roman college of priests didn’t prophesy the corruption, but rather reacted to it after it became well known. In like manner, Joseph Smith Jr. was unable to prophesy that he would be accidentally shot by his brother Hiram while attempting to escape from jail while the jail was being attacked by a mob.

In like manner, the Catholic Church responded (slowly) to priests molesting children, but have (it seems to me) proven themselves unable to prophesy and act based on that prophesy.

Yogi Berra said something to the effect that predicting is hard, especially about the future.

Called out? How so? I see myself, and Christians in a long history of asking: Why are we here? What is good? What should we do?

Who here is different? I may have read a bit more than most, but am no more clever than most. I am humble, and continue to search for the same answers.

Decartes is known for writing “I think, therefore I am.” but before that he wrote “I doubt, therefore I think.”

Mother Theresa had her own doubts. I certainly am not superior to her.


64 posted on 12/27/2011 11:09:06 PM PST by donmeaker (e is trancendentall)
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To: Daveinyork

The Anarchists have long proclaimed that property was theft. The OWS jerks assert that any failure of the government to take over all property is a subsidy by corrupt government under the control of various property owners (who would not like their property taken by the government).

I propose that ‘theft’ has a meaning. It has a definition in law. If behavior is not in accordance with that definition, it is not theft.

Even if you don’t like that behavior.


65 posted on 12/27/2011 11:23:02 PM PST by donmeaker (e is trancendentall)
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To: 9YearLurker

Harry Truman was once told that some evil defense contractor charged too much money for a part. Harry Truman said “Find me the guy who wrote the check.”

I would humbly suggest the place to stop spending is with the people who write the checks, not with the people who cash the checks.


66 posted on 12/27/2011 11:27:29 PM PST by donmeaker (e is trancendentall)
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To: donmeaker

Exactly.


67 posted on 12/27/2011 11:34:45 PM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: rhema

Just more of the same crap coming from morons that hate religion. They can’t read the Constitution so they try to redefine it’s meaning. Too bad so many brain dead idiots (we all know them) are with us.

They love the “separation of church and state” nonsense that IS NOT in the Constitution. They always quote the first amendment putting a period after “Congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion” when there is comma followed by “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” which is then followed by a semi-colon adding freedom of speech, press, assembly, etc.

I notice how the left remembers the semi-colon and whines about their freedom of the press but ignore the free exercise of religion.

I’m no lawyer but how is a bunch of high school or college kids praying or having a moment of silence after a game Congress passing a law respecting an establishment of religion? Looks to me like folks expressing their free exercise thereof.

I think to me it hit a head of how far down this bunny hole we’ve gone when Christie O’Donnell, when running for the Senate, brought this point up at a law school and they laughed.

Personally, if lawyers think that’s wrong they should not be allowed to practice law.


68 posted on 12/27/2011 11:35:34 PM PST by Fledermaus (It's now clear the GOP establishment is uncapable of governing and should resign.)
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To: hosepipe

Hate? No....far from it. Nothing of the sort. It’s just that scholarship isn’t exactly your long suit when it comes to the study of Christianity, but that’s fine. See, I know absolutely nothing about horses, for example, so I avoid posting here on FR about the finer points of horse breeding.

Like that.


69 posted on 12/28/2011 12:54:32 AM PST by RightOnline
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To: donmeaker

And if the theft is unconstitutional?


70 posted on 12/28/2011 2:53:30 AM PST by Daveinyork
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To: donmeaker

Theft has meaning. It means taking someone’s rightful property against his will by force or deception. Taking money from taxpayers and giving it to team owners qualifies. If the government has that much excess cash uit should give it back in the form of tax cuts or rebates - to the people who have paid it.

Taxation for the legitimate purposes of government is legitimate, but taking from some people and giving to others, whether by taxation or eminent domain, is theft, actually robbery, because it’s taken by force, or threat thereof.


71 posted on 12/28/2011 5:19:31 AM PST by Daveinyork
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To: donmeaker; lentulusgracchus
I see Christianity as a modern heir to the ancient nature religions, seeking to use similar means to answer the same old questions: Why are we here? What is good? What are we do do? The Pope’s of the Roman Catholic Church has an elected head who’s title in Latin is Pontifex Maximus, the same title given to the head priest in ancient Rome. The ancient religions were always transmuting, and modern religions continue to do so. Latin Jupiter was a transmutation of Greek Zeus-Pater, or English [sky]G-d the Father. Humanity seems to demand religion, and some prefer to justify their belief by ancient texts that are unquestionable to believers. The texts can be the Torah, the Bhagavad-gita, the writings of Virgil, or the New Testament, the Koran, or the Book of Mormon. Each claims to be the best, and last, and rejects the others as either heresy if newer, or ‘incomplete’ if old. Christianity had synods which defined what Christianity was, but demands of people change, problems and situations change, so that generates a need for another synod, later reformations, or in the case of Methodists, annual meetings. Rather like the Romans had colleges of priests, to decide what practices were permitted, or proscribed. One year Isis was permitted, the next year banned, in response to corruption of the priesthood. Alas, the Roman college of priests didn’t prophesy the corruption, but rather reacted to it after it became well known. In like manner, Joseph Smith Jr. was unable to prophesy that he would be accidentally shot by his brother Hiram while attempting to escape from jail while the jail was being attacked by a mob. In like manner, the Catholic Church responded (slowly) to priests molesting children, but have (it seems to me) proven themselves unable to prophesy and act based on that prophesy. Yogi Berra said something to the effect that predicting is hard, especially about the future. Called out? How so? I see myself, and Christians in a long history of asking: Why are we here? What is good? What should we do? Who here is different? I may have read a bit more than most, but am no more clever than most. I am humble, and continue to search for the same answers. Decartes is known for writing “I think, therefore I am.” but before that he wrote “I doubt, therefore I think.” Mother Theresa had her own doubts. I certainly am not superior to her.

Dose all the above mean that you stand by your statement that Christianity is a pagan religion? Just answer the question.

I see myself, and Christians in a long history of asking: Why are we here? What is good? What should we do?

Christians know those answers:

Why are we here? To serve the Lord.

What is good? The Word of God.

What should we do? Follow the Word of God.

72 posted on 12/28/2011 6:32:20 AM PST by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: cowboyway

Yes, I continue to hold that Christianity is a pagan religion, by at least one definitions of pagan.

You agree, or seem to, that Christianity answers, for you, the important questions that I said were posed.

You agreed that at least one of the questions were answered by your received text, “The Word of the Lord”.

You see, we have so much in common.


73 posted on 12/28/2011 8:12:48 AM PST by donmeaker (e is trancendentall)
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To: Daveinyork

To agree with your definition of ‘taking government money and giving it to team owners” as theft requires assuming that the government purpose is illegitimate. If a government body with power to tax does so, it may be bad policy, but that tax is not on its face, unconstitutional. In like manner, government policies that spend money on stadiums may also be bad policy, but may not be constitutional, unless there is a provision in the state constitution that bans government spending.

Federal government is one of limited powers. State government is one of plenary powers. That means that use of either of those policies is a good idea. There are many bad ideas that are completely constitutional.

That doesn’t mean that the constitutions are flawed though they may be. It means that government is not something that the people allow to run without supervision.

Subsidy of a business by a government may be bad policy without being theft.


74 posted on 12/28/2011 8:26:17 AM PST by donmeaker (e is trancendentall)
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To: donmeaker
Let me clean that up. I apologize for my sloppiness.

To agree with your definition of "taking government money and giving it to team owners” as theft requires assuming that the government purpose is illegitimate. If a government body with power to tax does so, it may be bad policy, but that tax is not on its face, unconstitutional. In like manner, government policies that spend money on stadiums may also be bad policy, but may not be unconstitutional, unless there is a provision in the state constitution that bans that form of government spending.

Federal government is one of limited powers. State government is one of plenary powers. That doesn't means that any particular use of either of those policies powers is a good idea. There are many bad ideas that are completely constitutional.

That doesn’t mean that the constitutions are flawed though they may be. It means that government is not something that the people should allow to run without supervision.

Subsidy of a business by a government may be bad policy without being theft.

I wanted to speak against the hyperbole that any policy that is disliked must be unconstitutional.

75 posted on 12/28/2011 8:54:25 AM PST by donmeaker (e is trancendentall)
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To: donmeaker

It’s not supposed to work that way. Whatever authority is not specifically given to the government is prohibited to the government. At any rate, the Pensylvania constitution has a clause similar to the fifth amendment, and it hasn’t stopped the politicians from subsidizing sports arenas and using eminent domain to get the land for the arenas.

Do you favor such a use of government power?


76 posted on 12/28/2011 9:22:29 AM PST by Daveinyork
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To: rhema

For years, players on opposing teams have gathered at the center of the field at most every level for prayer and thanksgiving after games. Football is a violent sport and to emerge from some games unscathed is worthy of thanksgiving.

However, a high-profile player like Tebow takes thanksgiving to a level that makes humanists and liberals foam at the mouth.

Good for you, Mr. Tebow. May Almighty God protect your testimony and witness.


77 posted on 12/28/2011 9:25:34 AM PST by Colonel_Flagg (Why, yes. I AM in a bad mood.)
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To: Goldsborough

There’s a lot of dueling evangelism on this site between Catholics and Protestants - all the daily devotionals competing with the papal pronouncements and so forth. How all that fits into “breaking news” or “current events” escapes me, but the mods allow it so I guess they consider it within the scope of the site. I personally think that those sorts of theological screeds should be on a “religion” thread unless they actually constitute major news, e.g., the pope endorses Obama or some such thing.


78 posted on 12/28/2011 9:32:32 AM PST by Steve_Seattle
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To: RightOnline

[ It’s just that scholarship isn’t exactly your long suit when it comes to the study of Christianity ]

Same accusation was made of Jesus about Judaism..
but he dealt with his “accuser” well..

Judaism during Jesus time (and before) was dysfunctional and corrupt(Talmud).. and fleshly.. still is..
Pretty much as what Christianity has become..

Litergy of all types and ceremony is Kabuki Theater..
Posturing, masks, makeup, costumes, and strange sounds..
the Holy Spirit has become a “Doofus” there..

It Mocks what it once was.. and is no more.. (mostly but not completely)..


79 posted on 12/28/2011 10:48:42 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: donmeaker
Yes, I continue to hold that Christianity is a pagan religion, by at least one definitions of pagan.

Feel free to be specific for those of us that aren't as clever as you.

You see, we have so much in common.

Hardly. You stated that you and Christians were seeking the answers to three questions: Why are we here? What is good? What should we do?

I replied that Christians already know the answers which leaves you still seeking the answers through perversion and paganism.

I think the only similarity between you and I is that we're both carbon based life forms.

BTW, so is Pi......

80 posted on 12/28/2011 11:03:45 AM PST by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: hosepipe
[ It’s just that scholarship isn’t exactly your long suit when it comes to the study of Christianity ]

Same accusation was made of Jesus about Judaism.. but he dealt with his “accuser” well..

Wrong. He was extremely knowledgeable, even as a child. No one ever accused him of not knowing the tenets of Judaism; He knew the Talmud inside and backward. They had a real problem, later during His ministry, with His interpretations and apparent disrespect of the church's heirarchy.

Judaism during Jesus time (and before) was dysfunctional and corrupt(Talmud).. and fleshly.. still is.. Pretty much as what Christianity has become..

Litergy [sic] of all types and ceremony is Kabuki Theater.. Posturing, masks, makeup, costumes, and strange sounds.. the Holy Spirit has become a “Doofus” there..

That's the worst sort of straw-man argument. You asserted that Christianity wasn't a religion. I challenged you on that point. Now, you offer nothing to support your contention; you merely bitch about the nature of the church today (as you see it; guess they didn't consult you). Totally different topic.

The Christian church is far from perfect, and I could spend hours pointing out its problems (especially with certain denominations and creeds that I will not name here). To me, and I do know what I'm talking about as a Christian for decades, the purest form of Christianity today can be found in good (not all) non-denominational, charismatic churches. They....get it.

That said, if you want to debate the shortfalls in the current Christian religion, fine. That wasn't your original statement, so if you still want to stick to your guns on Christianity not being a religion, let's hear your argument on THAT point.

It Mocks what it once was.. and is no more.. (mostly but not completely)..

Guess you haven't studied much on the early church. It was a total mess with sect after sect vying for the mantle of the one REAL, TRUE, by God CHURCH. The only surprise is that the Christian religion made it at all.

81 posted on 12/28/2011 1:45:27 PM PST by RightOnline
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To: Daveinyork

I live in LA county where we don’t even have a NFL franchise.

Naw, I don’t care for government use of eminent domain to make stadiums. LA has an Olympic stadium, the Rose Bowl, and the stadium used by the former Irvin Raiders. I think it is bad policy. If it makes sense to build a stadium, the private sector can buy the land. In most cases it makes sense to lease an existing stadium such as that available at the numerous colleges. Heck, as a policy matter, I don’t think that government high schools, government/state colleges should have football teams. There goes Nebraska, Oklahoma, OSU, (Beat) Cal, Penn, etc. And imagine: I used to live in Sealy Tx!

In general, as a legal matter, State governments are not limited to enumerated powers, unless that unusual provision is in the state constitution, or there is a limitation to the state constitution such as that in Article 4 of the federal constitution, or federal Amendment 2 as applied to the states by the 14th Amendment.


82 posted on 12/28/2011 2:43:44 PM PST by donmeaker (e is trancendentall)
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To: RightOnline

[ Guess you haven’t studied much on the early church. It was a total mess with sect after sect vying for the mantle of the one REAL, TRUE, by God CHURCH. The only surprise is that the Christian religion made it at all. ]

Nothing as changed.. except it has gotten worse..
Sheep pens are sheep pens whether they are baptist, catholic or boy scouts.. or the Moose Hall..
-OR- Buddists, Muslims or Hindu..
-OR- Animists, Cargo Cultists or Mormons..

A real God would have no need for a religion.. any religion..
AND its you that is ignoring my precepts..


83 posted on 12/28/2011 2:55:13 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: cowboyway

One definition of “Pagan” refers to the common belief of the country folk, or rustics, as opposed to the more nuanced and refined beliefs of the court. Of course at that time the court beliefs of the rarefied elite at the court were that of the Christians. The rarefied elite selected fairly new texts that served as their received texts, thus defining what was the ‘New Testament’.

Only later did the Jews settle on what documents were excluded from the Old Testament. The Roman Catholic church differed from the Jews, and so some books (like Tobit and Sirach) (and sections of Daniel) are retained in the RC bible, and excluded from the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings accepted by the Jews.

Today the rarefied elite is atheist. The common folk adhere to ancient virtues of the ‘G-ds of the Copybook Headings’ as rendered by Kipling’s poem and recently promulgated by Glen Beck. They often arrive at their justification of ancient virtues by analysis of ancient texts.

The cynics of the rarefied elite don’t care to be restricted by such virtues and texts. I look at them as the heirs of the Sadducees, or later of the Christian bishops of the court of Constantinople.

Some disagree with the Sadducees and would add more rules, restrictions upon restrictions, blocking the easy path to virtue and salvation provided by our limited understanding of the Divine will. Such are the heirs to the Pharisees. In like manner previous practices of veneration of icons were rejected by adherents of Islam. Perhaps after losing a few debates, the iconoclasts moved to the center of power, and soon became as corrupt as their predecessors.

And then there are the rest of us, trying to pass Charybdis and Scylla. As you may recall, Ulysses/Odysseus was counseled that it was better to accept a small loss to Scylla than loss of all to Charybdis. So we fools err on the side of virtue, such as we can perceive it.


84 posted on 12/28/2011 3:14:16 PM PST by donmeaker (e is trancendentall)
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To: central_va
You are FOS.

Your rejoinders are just as sophisticated as your thought processes allow.
85 posted on 12/28/2011 11:01:20 PM PST by Goldsborough
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To: donmeaker

It’s still crony capitalism, just like Solyndra and ethanol, and far too many conservatives, including and especially Rush Limbaugh, turn a blind eye to it.


86 posted on 12/29/2011 5:34:16 AM PST by Daveinyork
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To: donmeaker

Your use of Wikipedia is impressive but let’s try this one more time: Do you stand behind your statement that Christianity is a pagan religion? A simple yes or no will suffice.

I’m calling you out. Put up or shut up.


87 posted on 12/29/2011 6:27:16 AM PST by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: cowboyway

For the third time, yes I do.

Gosh, how many times do I have to answer your silly question? I wish you would read some of the answers.


88 posted on 12/29/2011 10:38:18 AM PST by donmeaker (e is trancendentall)
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To: cowboyway

So what brand of religion do you hold?

“I’m calling you out. Put up or shut up.”

Lol.


89 posted on 12/29/2011 10:47:49 AM PST by donmeaker (e is trancendentall)
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To: Daveinyork
I agree with you that it is crony capitalism.

I agree that it is bad policy.

I think the proper remedy at present is an informed and active electorate, rather than: (1) turning the matter over to judges, or (2) assassination.

I do wish the informed and active electorate would insist on more rigorous ethical rules. I don't see a cure to having the various legislative bodies make up their own ethical rules, as handing it off to another body would make that process even more subject to corruption and manipulation. No, I am not a Gingrich fan.

So, I am on the side of thinking that payments to WFB Morse to string his telegraph wire, or the development of the Springfield Arsenal, or the building of the transcontinental railroad were, at the time, good things.

That doesn't mean that all such ideas are always good things, or that even most of them are. Most of them should be voted down.

90 posted on 12/29/2011 11:01:07 AM PST by donmeaker (e is trancendentall)
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To: donmeaker

One thing I do is turn off the spectator sports. I used to be an NFL fan to the degreee that my Sundays and Monday nights were spoken for in the fall. In the 1972 season, the longest playoff game which was between the Dolphins and the Chiefs was played on Christmas day, I refused to show up at the dinner table until the game was over. It created a lot of controversy, because I wasn’t the only one.

I gradually lost interest, and when the local TV stations succeeded in forcing DirecTV to drop network programming, I couldn’t get NFL games except for the ESPN games, so I quit watching altogether, and when DirecTV was able to give us local stations, I found I really didn’t miss it.

I was hoping they would go on strike.


91 posted on 12/29/2011 1:11:55 PM PST by Daveinyork
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To: donmeaker

You attenmpt, and fail miserably, to analyze Christianity, yet fail to include what Christianity is.

It is Jesus Christ, the Son of God....

...crucified and risen for us.

Your socio-cultural methodology is mere absorption of the high priests of secular academia.

You can’t analyze Christianity without the focus being on Jesus the Christ. Well, you can, but it is useless.


92 posted on 12/29/2011 1:41:01 PM PST by rbmillerjr (Conservative Economic and National Security Commentary: econus.blogspot.com)
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To: hosepipe

“A real God would have no need for a religion.. any religion..
AND its you that is ignoring my precepts..”

I suppose he could leave it all up to the anarchy of ignorance, of which you well demonstrate.

Religion, for the Christian, is about God becoming man and appealing to our weaknesses and sinfulness. His Church was set up for us, to hear and worship Him.


93 posted on 12/29/2011 1:54:29 PM PST by rbmillerjr (Conservative Economic and National Security Commentary: econus.blogspot.com)
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To: rbmillerjr

[ His Church was set up for us, to hear and worship Him. ]

Jesus never used the word “the Church”..
The modern churches are in effect synagogues..

“Ekklesia” does not mean church.. but those called out of synagogues.. (Jn ch 10)
Jews and Gentiles seem to prefer Synagogues.. Whether Baptist, Buddist or Moose/Mason Hall..


94 posted on 12/29/2011 3:26:15 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: hosepipe

“Jews and Gentiles seem to prefer Synagogues..”

I think you may want to explain this analysis of the Church of hosepipe lol.

Of course most Christians were Jews...but indeed they met together in Church to worship Jesus Christ. When they gathered, whether by 2 or 3 or 30, was it not Church?

Eventually larger communities gathered, Christians together celebrating and worshiping Jesus Christ’s Son, in Church.


95 posted on 12/29/2011 8:08:09 PM PST by rbmillerjr (Conservative Economic and National Security Commentary: econus.blogspot.com)
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To: All

excuse me...

“Jesus Christ, Son of God, in Church”


96 posted on 12/29/2011 8:21:51 PM PST by rbmillerjr (Conservative Economic and National Security Commentary: econus.blogspot.com)
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To: hosepipe
The term “Church” refers to the body of people who are believers in Yeshua (Jesus). It is also referred to as the body of Christ. Hence it is not a building or organization, but a living breathing entity made up of believers whatever denomination they choose to call themselves. As long as they believe that the blood of Christ has saved them and have turned from their sins, they are part of his Church.

Once anything is added to the sacrifice of Christ for salvation, that individual no longer is a believer, but is dependent upon their own good works for admittance to heaven. The Church is much bigger than any list of members of recognized denominations. Read Mega Shift to discover how little we know of the Body of Christ in Muslim lands, and how surprised we will be at His coming.

97 posted on 12/29/2011 8:45:50 PM PST by Yulee (Village of Albion)
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To: rbmillerjr

[ When they gathered, whether by 2 or 3 or 30, was it not Church? ]

The “church” is a club.. The flock needs no clubs.. it needs only the Shepard.. The “church”/flock is an individual thing not a corporate thing each sheep follows the Shepard.. As Jesus said, “Wherever two or three congregate”.. The first two is YOU and the Holy Spirit..

In John ch 10 Jesus calls them out of the sheep pen and into the pasture.. (Ps 23)

The modern church are synagogues.. probably because thats the way Paul related to “gathering”.. My opinion (true) but thats the way I see it..


98 posted on 12/29/2011 8:46:19 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: hosepipe

The “club” or Church came before Scripture. If there is no Church we have no Scripture.

Only many volumes of misinterpretations and argument.

There was Christ, then His Church, then Scripture.


99 posted on 12/29/2011 9:17:23 PM PST by rbmillerjr (Conservative Economic and National Security Commentary: econus.blogspot.com)
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To: Yulee

Actually the Body of Christ and the Bride of Christ are two metaphors that refer to the same thing in different aspects..

They are not churches they are organic in vision.. but since they both are spiritual they are not fleshly.. In my view the whole bible trys to convert “the chosen” from a fleshly point of view to a spiritual point of view of reality..

Its not easy either.. my own adventure from a fleshly point of view to a spiritual one is long and hard won.. Probably some or even most of the Apostles went thru the same thing.. It is indeed a metamorphosis like from a worm to a butterfly.. All denominations I have visited and studied have a fully developed fleshly identity.. and they are many.. Some maybe most are bound to remain a worm.. Which is OK.. must be, thats the way its supposed to be..

God I think is not a doofus..


100 posted on 12/29/2011 9:21:26 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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