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Ron Paul says victim of sex harassment bears some responsibility for resolution
The Boston Globe ^ | January 1, 2012 | Shira Schoenberg

Posted on 01/02/2012 7:22:04 AM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Texas Representative Ron Paul today stood by statements he made in his 1987 book arguing that someone who is a victim of sexual harassment in the workplace should bear some responsibility for resolving the problem and that society should not bear the burden of paying for the care of AIDS victims.

In his 1987 book “Freedom Under Siege: The US Constitution after 200-Plus Years,” Paul wrote about sexual harassment in the workplace, “Why don’t they quit once the so-called harassment starts? Obviously the morals of the harasser cannot be defended, but how can the harassee escape some responsibility for the problem?’’

In another passage, Paul wrote, “The individual suffering from AIDS certainly is a victim - frequently a victim of his own lifestyle - but this same individual victimizes innocent citizens by forcing them to pay for his care.”

On Fox News Sunday this morning, host Chris Wallace asked Paul, now a top contender in the Republican presidential race, whether he still agreed with those statements.

On the sexual harassment issue, Paul distinguished between verbal and physical harassment but said neither one warranted a federal law to prevent it.

“If it’s just because somebody told a joke to somebody who was offended, they don’t have a right to go to the federal government and have a policeman come in and put penalties on those individuals,” Paul said of verbal harassment. “They have to say maybe this is not a very good environment. They have the right to work there or not work there.”

Paul continued: “Because people are insulted by rude behavior, I don’t think we should make a federal case about it. I don’t think we need federal laws to deal with that. People should deal with that at home.”

(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aids; healthinsurance; ronpaul; sexualharassment
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1 posted on 01/02/2012 7:22:14 AM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

You know what? It’s true. What happened to women slapping a cad across the face and saying “fresh”! Instead they act like shrinking violets. I used to coach these dumb girls in the military: “Tell them to drop dead and turn on your heel and leave.” “Tell them they are a geek.” “Point at them and laugh hysterically” Most of these easy tactics got the idiots away.

Sergeants would come up to me and say stupid stuff like “Ma’am, I probably shouldn’t say this but” and I would cut them off with “then don’t”. I would walk away and close the door. Women have to have more spunk.


2 posted on 01/02/2012 7:27:41 AM PST by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
In another passage, Paul wrote, “The individual suffering from AIDS certainly is a victim - frequently a victim of his own lifestyle - but this same individual victimizes innocent citizens by forcing them to pay for his care.”

Very true.
3 posted on 01/02/2012 7:30:20 AM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State | Gingrich 2012)
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To: yldstrk

The point of Paul’s stupid comments on sex harrassment have to do with him telling women to quit their jobs if they don’t like being verbally or physically harrassed. As someone who had to quit jobs during the wild and crazy 70s (the peak of the sexual revolution) I can tell you it’s not so easy to get another job - especially when you have to pay your rent and put food on the table. And if you think in the private sector you can slap or hit your boss and everything will be happily resolved, then you are living in cloud cuckoo-land.

Paul also shows his appalling ignorance when he suggests that policemen are hauled in when some dope in the workplace makes a suggestive remark. In all my work years I’ve never seen anything like that. Most women deal very well with stupid remarks. But they don’t like being harrassed or touched by another employee.


4 posted on 01/02/2012 7:36:57 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Seems like common sense to me ... so if that’s the case it MUST be wrong. ;)


5 posted on 01/02/2012 7:36:57 AM PST by trapped_in_LA
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To: miss marmelstein

so don’t slap them, point at them and laugh


6 posted on 01/02/2012 7:38:45 AM PST by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: miss marmelstein

ask them “don’t you have a wife at home?” “What’s her phone number.” They will get it.


7 posted on 01/02/2012 7:40:24 AM PST by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: miss marmelstein
"The point of Paul’s stupid comments on sex harrassment have to do with him telling women to quit their jobs if they don’t like being verbally or physically harrassed. As someone who had to quit jobs during the wild and crazy 70s (the peak of the sexual revolution) I can tell you it’s not so easy to get another job - especially when you have to pay your rent and put food on the table. And if you think in the private sector you can slap or hit your boss and everything will be happily resolved, then you are living in cloud cuckoo-land."

Coming from a doctor, this just confirms my misgivings on Paul, the loon!

It's the harrasser, not the harrassee, who should be looking for another job.

This will not be received well by women.

8 posted on 01/02/2012 7:43:58 AM PST by PALIN SMITH (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
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To: PALIN SMITH

Any woman who would let that freak put a hand on her new-born baby belongs in Bedlam!!

Why do the creepiest - and I mean creepiest - doctors (Howard Dean, anyone?) - get into politics??


9 posted on 01/02/2012 7:48:10 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: miss marmelstein

the law is so vague that ANYTHING can be construed as sexual harassment... the following is not sexual harassment, but is considered so under the law:

brushing up against someone in a crowed hallway while trying to get by....

overhearing an off colored joke ( why are you eavesdropping?)...

taking a look at something that has been put on display.....

asking someone out on a date ( only once is allowed )..

positive comments on the way a woman looks ( my, you look nice today )...

all of the above can land you a lawsuit and/or lose your job...sexual harassment claims are 90% bogus, or filed by incompetent workers looking for a paycheck..( I know, because I had to defend myself against a pregnant woman who filed a complaint against me, only to have the investigation prove she was a bald faced damn liar, and she got to keep her job!!!!)


10 posted on 01/02/2012 7:49:00 AM PST by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: yldstrk

You are not dealing with reality, sorry. You think someone who locks the door of his office while you are putting mail on his desk (as happened to me) will be put off by: Don’t you have a wife at home? Some harrassers are outright criminals. (Bill Clinton, anyone?)


11 posted on 01/02/2012 7:50:37 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: trapped_in_LA

common sense to suggest women being harassed should quit their job?

Ron Paul is a whack job.


12 posted on 01/02/2012 7:51:06 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: miss marmelstein
The point of Paul’s stupid comments on sex harrassment have to do with him telling women to quit their jobs if they don’t like being verbally or physically harrassed.

I think you missed his point.
He's against the Federal Gov't making laws restricting freedoms. He says that if is physical harrassment, then call the cops as there are already laws on the books to cover assaults. If you work in an enviornment where there is (in your opinion) offensive verbal dialogue, then bring it up with management and/or go work where you feel more comfortable. It is a free (somewhat) country and you have the right to stay or go - but don't create a law everytime someone is offended.

13 posted on 01/02/2012 7:51:06 AM PST by Riodacat (And when all is said and done, there'll be a hell of a lot more said than done......)
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To: miss marmelstein

I am dealing with reality. I lived it baby. I was in the military when there were just 10% females. A little attitude and gutsiness works wonders.


14 posted on 01/02/2012 7:52:54 AM PST by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: yldstrk

I have some agreement with this position, but I can tell you from experience, that the way it was until pretty recently was that after the woman slapped the cad, she would have been escorted to the door and handed a box of her personal belongings on the way out. You had to be very careful to walk that line between being groped and being fired for “insubordination.” It just wasn’t that easy. Unlike things in RP’s little world.

Now - no problem. A guy looks at you wrong and you can file a complaint.


15 posted on 01/02/2012 7:53:32 AM PST by SuzyQue
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To: joe fonebone

I’ve been on the other side of the coin, too. I had to defend a friend of mine who got accused of sex harrassment by a temporary worker. He was a fun and flirtatous guy but no creep. That said, awful things do happen to women on the job and there must be laws against it.


16 posted on 01/02/2012 7:54:38 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: yldstrk
What happened to women slapping a cad across the face and saying “fresh”!

Good jobs don't grow on trees. One shouldn't have to quit a job due to harassment. By that logic, women shouldn't be out in public after dark, or wear attractive clothing because it could attract rapists. As for slapping a co-worker, that's a good way to get not just fired but charged with assault.

My favorite response to unwelcome attention is to whip out one's favorite device and ask, "Do you mind if I record this conversation? Oops, I accidentally activated it already...I hate when that happens!" After a while most people will know that you carry something to record every sound, and have lots of accidental activations.

17 posted on 01/02/2012 7:54:47 AM PST by Lady Lucky (Happy Newt Year!)
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To: yldstrk

In the immortal words of Kenneth Mars in “The Producers”: don’t call me baby.


18 posted on 01/02/2012 7:56:14 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: Riodacat

His point was if the victim doesn’t like being assaulted they should quit. He’s a whack job.


19 posted on 01/02/2012 7:57:14 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Lady Lucky

LOL!


20 posted on 01/02/2012 7:57:20 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: joe fonebone

Anyone ever hear of a victim making a sexual harassment claim to the union about a harassing union member and then suing them when they did not protect her from additional harassment? I never have and would not be surprised if the Federal and state laws are written or interpreted so that the unions are held harmless.


21 posted on 01/02/2012 7:57:27 AM PST by BilLies ( (ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hates your Traditional American guts!))
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To: Lady Lucky

oh that is a great tip. You get it. Love it.


22 posted on 01/02/2012 7:59:05 AM PST by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: miss marmelstein

why didn’t you scream bloody murder when he locked the door


23 posted on 01/02/2012 8:00:32 AM PST by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: BilLies

oh pwotect me pwotect me........

sheesh


24 posted on 01/02/2012 8:01:56 AM PST by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: driftdiver
His point was if the victim doesn’t like being assaulted they should quit.

You obviously didn't watch the FoxNews interview as he clearly stated that if anyone is assaulted in the workplace or anywhere else, they should call the police as it is a criminal offense. The Feds shouldn't have to write and enforce a new law when there is already a remedy on the books.

25 posted on 01/02/2012 8:04:15 AM PST by Riodacat (And when all is said and done, there'll be a hell of a lot more said than done......)
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To: Riodacat

No I don’t watch much Ron Paul on TV. He’s a nut and is just as dangerous as BO.


26 posted on 01/02/2012 8:06:10 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: miss marmelstein; yldstrk
The point of Paul’s stupid comments on sex harrassment have to do with him telling women to quit their jobs if they don’t like being verbally or physically harrassed. As someone who had to quit jobs during the wild and crazy 70s (the peak of the sexual revolution) I can tell you it’s not so easy to get another job - especially when you have to pay your rent and put food on the table.

What about other forms of bad behavior? The manager that demands excessive unpaid overtime? The screaming bully? There are lots of ways that the workplace can become unpleasant to work in, and men have always had to either put up with it, demand the unpleasantness cease, or get another job.

27 posted on 01/02/2012 8:07:03 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: yldstrk

I’m alive and well today so I think I handled the insane sex harrassment of the 70s pretty well. I’m assuming that you are much younger than me and did not live through that period in the urban jungle of NYC. I could be wrong, of course.

One of my favorite musicals “How to Succeed in Business without Really Trying” features the immortal song “A Secretary is Not a Toy.” Sums up the entire rotten period.


28 posted on 01/02/2012 8:08:31 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: PapaBear3625

yah there are lots of axels in the “workplace” people pulling phones out of walls, screaming. What fun


29 posted on 01/02/2012 8:08:45 AM PST by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: miss marmelstein

pardon


30 posted on 01/02/2012 8:09:55 AM PST by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: All
Photobucket
31 posted on 01/02/2012 8:11:57 AM PST by Ronald_Magnus
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To: miss marmelstein

I was in High school in the 70s. However I do believe the “sexual revolution” only benefited men. And that our country has never recovered. these days everyone thinks sex is the be all end all and acts so crass


32 posted on 01/02/2012 8:12:08 AM PST by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Lady Lucky
My favorite response to unwelcome attention is to whip out one's favorite device and ask, "Do you mind if I record this conversation? Oops, I accidentally activated it already...I hate when that happens!" After a while most people will know that you carry something to record every sound, and have lots of accidental activations.

For less than $100, you can have an audio recorder that can hold over 8 hours of high-quality audio. Turn it on as you enter work, leave it on all day. If you have an incident, extract the relevant audio clip and send it to HR, cc to the boor.

33 posted on 01/02/2012 8:12:34 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: PapaBear3625

The screaming bully is one of my pet peeves! And they never seem to lose their jobs - it’s always the bullied who head for the tall grass.

It’s one of the reasons I refuse to work in office environments. I work in the theatre where you have putzes too but a sly comeback can often stop them in their tracks.


34 posted on 01/02/2012 8:17:23 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: PapaBear3625
Another option is to never hire any women, ever!

More than a few smaller companies are going that route.

35 posted on 01/02/2012 8:17:45 AM PST by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: driftdiver
No I don’t watch much Ron Paul on TV. He’s a nut and is just as dangerous as BO.

You don't have to like him.
I wouldn't vote for him either, but at least I know what he says and didn't say.
There's enough to disagree with him on that we don't need to make stuff up.

36 posted on 01/02/2012 8:21:06 AM PST by Riodacat (And when all is said and done, there'll be a hell of a lot more said than done......)
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To: miss marmelstein
"Why do the creepiest - and I mean creepiest - doctors (Howard Dean, anyone?) - get into politics??"

I met Dr. Dean a couple of years ago in New Haven.

37 posted on 01/02/2012 8:21:51 AM PST by PALIN SMITH (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
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To: PALIN SMITH

Wow! Everybody needs to go to this video and see this!

Thanks for linking - good job exposing the 2nd biggest nut job in American politics.


38 posted on 01/02/2012 8:28:10 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: miss marmelstein

There must be laws that deal harshly with BOTH sides. In way too many cases, the harassee gets the free pass. And simply making the accusation can seriously impact a business, right or wrong.


39 posted on 01/02/2012 8:31:03 AM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: PapaBear3625

But you better be aware of the state laws for recording conversations.


40 posted on 01/02/2012 8:33:08 AM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: SgtHooper

Any woman who makes a false allegation against a guy is making it that much worse for other women in the workplace. They are a disgrace. As I said in one of my earlier posts, I saw it happen to a friend of mine. Luckily, no one believed the girl.


41 posted on 01/02/2012 8:34:23 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: miss marmelstein

I have worked for a few “screamers” in my time.... I know how to handle these types, you simply piss them off even more... here is how you do it.....

First, simply ignore the entire conversation, until the screamer asks, “Did you hear me?” or some other comment...

Second, kinda shake your head as if waking up, look blankly at them and calmly state, “ Oh, i’m sorry. I wasn’t listening. Is this the part where I fall to my knees and beg your forgiveness?”....

At this point the screamer will lose their minds, and eventually tell you that you have a bad attitude....

You then get your mean voice on, and state, “ ATTITUDE??? Let me tell you something about attitudes, pal. Attitudes start at the top and work their way down. If you don’t like my attitude, carry your butt into the bathroom, and take a good long look in the mirror. You will SEE where my attitude originates!”....

This will effectively shut them down, and most times they will never bother you again. If they write you up, all you have to do is tell the HR person that publically being screamed at constitues a hostile work environment, and suggest that the friedly HR person have a little chat with your screamer. Remind HR that you are fully aware that you still have to work in this town, but the next person may not be so patient.

Works like a charm..


42 posted on 01/02/2012 8:38:49 AM PST by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: yldstrk

Whenever I’ve been lectured to by some pro-abortion guy on my anti-abortion stance, I always say to him: “Well, of course, you like abortion! It really benefits you guys, doesn’t it?” Only one honest man ever told me I was right.


43 posted on 01/02/2012 8:39:36 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: miss marmelstein

When a women, or guy makes a claim, they don’t give a dam about others similarly situated. They are focused on their own situation. Don’t get me wrong, I’m on your side, but this is one of those topics that gets me riled. The fact that the laws so heavily favor the harassee irritates the hell outta me. False claims should be jail sentences, just as proven claims.


44 posted on 01/02/2012 8:40:57 AM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: joe fonebone

Sounds like a plan!


45 posted on 01/02/2012 8:41:32 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: SgtHooper

I often find that women who make false charges are just not very bright; dangerous, but not very bright. And I agree: jail terms for all of them!


46 posted on 01/02/2012 8:44:25 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: miss marmelstein
But they don’t like being harrassed or touched by another employee.

Sorry they don't "like" it. Not "liking" something isn't a cause to involve the federal government. And, no, it isn't easy to get another job, but that isn't a reason to involve the government, either.

Now, if the touching is sexual, there are laws to deal with assault.

47 posted on 01/02/2012 8:52:36 AM PST by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: BfloGuy

No one should be harrassed on the job. Harrassment means constant unwanted attention; not one dumb joke by a crude guy. And, of course, I don’t mean a tap on the shoulder - I mean a sexual or violent physical encounter. Sorry, but it DOES happen in the workforce.

If employers dealt with these situations properly, no one would have to go to the police or “government.” The problem with employers is that they like to bury the dirt rather than expose it.


48 posted on 01/02/2012 9:00:23 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: Riodacat

Ahh so I’m a liar.

From the article - “They have to say maybe this is not a very good environment. They have the right to work there or not work there.”

He and U can KMA


49 posted on 01/02/2012 9:10:30 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: yldstrk
Instead they act like shrinking violets. I used to coach these dumb girls in the military: “Tell them to drop dead and turn on your heel and leave.” “Tell them they are a geek.” “Point at them and laugh hysterically” Most of these easy tactics got the idiots away.

*******And, what if the "idiot" has some or total control over the "dumb girl's" compensation, assignment, promotion or very employment?*******

__________________________________________

Sergeants would come up to me and say stupid stuff like “Ma’am, I probably shouldn’t say this but” and I would cut them off with “then don’t”. I would walk away and close the door.

*******How many Lt. Colonels did you treat the same way?*******

50 posted on 01/02/2012 9:11:53 AM PST by moose-matson (I keep it in my head)
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