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Silly Things We Hear: “Communism Works on Paper”
The New American ^ | Thursday, 12 January 2012 | Selwyn Duke

Posted on 01/12/2012 9:31:54 AM PST by Paladins Prayer

While discussing on The View recently how North Korean heir Kim Jong Un enjoyed the luxury of being sent to a Swiss boarding school, Whoopi Goldberg said the following, “This is what happens with communism. It’s a great concept; on paper it makes perfect sense. But once you put a human being in power, it shifts. We saw it in Russia; we’ve seen it all over the world.”

Not surprisingly, this earned Goldberg some criticism. Yet, to be fair, her sentiment is a common one. It’s that supposedly enlightened, nuanced opinion stating that communism works great in theory — it’s just the practical application that’s problematic. And while Goldberg seems to accept that man’s nature will always ensure communism’s unworkability, others entertain a corollary of the above opinion: that the ideology could work if only the right people were at the helm.

The first thing we need to debunk is the on-paper-validity myth. Could you imagine a scientist, after observing a theory consistently fail when applied over decades, insist that it works on paper? Unless he was a climate-change warmist, he’d be laughed out of his field.

(Excerpt) Read more at thenewamerican.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: christianity; communism; election; goldberg
This is possibly the best take-down of communism I've read. I'd recommend sending it to any young person you know who says that communism could work if the right people ran things.
1 posted on 01/12/2012 9:32:00 AM PST by Paladins Prayer
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To: Paladins Prayer

I wonder, maybe this should be taken as a teachable moment and someone should talk to Ms. Goldberg. “It’s a great concept; on paper it makes perfect sense. But once you put a human being in power. . .” or generalized to “but once it’s implemented in the real world with real human beings. . .” is a conservative critique of every leftist project: Communism, Keysianism, the War on Poverty, the War on Drugs, lowering lending standards to encourage minority home ownership, . . .


2 posted on 01/12/2012 9:40:16 AM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: Paladins Prayer
It’s a great concept; on paper it makes perfect sense. But once you put a human being in power, it shifts. We saw it in Russia; we’ve seen it all over the world.”

Their obvious solution is to demand/grab more control of the ignorant masses.

It is their thought process, which will never change. That is why the communist/socialists/liberals/progressives/Marxists can only be suppressed.



They are beyond help, they do not have the capacity to be educated out of communism disguised as "liberalism and progressiveness." They can not or refuse to see the destructive nature of the communism disguised as "liberalism and progressiveness" they promote.

What the supporters of communist "liberalism and progressiveness" will destroy is the very nation that gave them their freedom. They will complain, demonize, belittle and protest when opposed but only preserving this Republic in it’s original context will continue to give them their freedom to complain and protest against it.

They will not stop destroying this nation of their own accord.

The only way to preserve freedom for American Citizens in this Republic is suppression of the communist supporters. "Taking the high road" is rapidly becoming something to be put on the shelf for a while. It is now time to step up, get in their face and call them worthless communist bastards undeserving of a place in this Republic.

If some semblance of our former Republic can be restored they will require constant observation. The communists will revert to demanding total control faster than can be understood by rational thought as rational thought is not understood by communists.

The supporters of communist "liberalism and progressiveness" will NEVER be normal freedom loving American Citizens. It is my understanding of history that not that long ago American Citizens put freedom before communism and put communist traitors in jail.

Worked once, ought to work again.

.

3 posted on 01/12/2012 9:40:56 AM PST by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: Paladins Prayer

Solzhenitsyn said the same thing. Collectivism is an economic model which ignores the other sciences and, most importantly, human psychology, which inevitably seeks to reward self as a result of work done.

As such it is a lie, a delectable, beguiling lie. Since it can’t ever work, it has to be propped up by more lies, and then murder.


4 posted on 01/12/2012 9:51:18 AM PST by lurk
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To: Paladins Prayer
In Theory, Theory and Practice are the same.

In Practice, They're not.

5 posted on 01/12/2012 9:52:12 AM PST by Mr. K (Physically unable to profreed <--- oops, see?)
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To: Paladins Prayer

Communism doesn’t work because it goes against our survival instinct. We’re programmed with an individual consciousness, not a group/hive mind.

In order for “true communism” to work, a person would need to remove their wanting for individual goals and work strictly for the betterment of the group. To accomplish that would require the removal of the word “I” from the language - to remove the individual consciousness.

That’s not going to happen. Ever.


6 posted on 01/12/2012 9:54:36 AM PST by Personal Responsibility (Obama 2012: Dozens of MSNBC viewers can't be wrong!)
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To: Paladins Prayer

Actually, it is precisely the opposite. Leninism called for the Dictatorship of the Proletariat which was the authority with complete control. This actually worked quite well in reality. It exerted COMPLETE CONTROL.

The next phase was supposed to be the dissolution of the state. This is the part which doesn’t even sound correct in theory. Who believes that a complete dictatorship is going to “dissolve away”? Completely hair-brained. When it did not happen in the Soviet Union (Surprise, Surprise, Surprise!) the excuse was given that the existence of the non-Communist states was interfering. Thus, the ideological justification for taking over the world in order to provide the proper climate for the “inevitable” progression of the Communist state.


7 posted on 01/12/2012 9:59:33 AM PST by the_Watchman
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To: Paladins Prayer

Would it be racist to note that, as a measure to reduce labor costs, slavery works pretty well “on paper” ?


8 posted on 01/12/2012 10:01:10 AM PST by WayneS (Comments now include 25% MORE sarcasm for no additional charge...)
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To: Paladins Prayer
“Communism Works on Paper”

Poop works on paper.

Communism = poop.

9 posted on 01/12/2012 10:03:44 AM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: Paladins Prayer
Communism dictates that the selected few will make the determinations for the whole - where human capital and financial capital are put to work for the collective whole.

Even on paper human decision making by the few are the deciding force - therefore it does not even work on paper as people are integral to the systems success. If you take people out of the system there is no decision making and no system.

10 posted on 01/12/2012 10:08:11 AM PST by NYCRebublican (No more Slimes)
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To: Paladins Prayer
Could you imagine a scientist, after observing a theory consistently fail when applied over decades, insist that it works on paper?

Small point of contention: Theories don't exist on paper. Hypothesis exist on paper, a Theory is what you get when you test your hypothesis by experimentation and either confirm or disprove it. The Theory then stands until experimental data can be generated to overturn it.

If what you "put on paper" isn't working (like the USSR) you need to revise it, not keep doing the same thing all over again.

11 posted on 01/12/2012 10:11:27 AM PST by MAexile (Bats left, votes right)
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To: Paladins Prayer
So I guess Whoopi made movies and became a wealthy celebrity to amass as much money as possible with the end game of handing it out to those that are in need? Hypocrisy. Capitalism is what gave her a comfy life style and fat bank account. But since she already has hers, why not eliminate any possibility of future generations being afforded the same opportunities? This kind of thinking is reprehensible and disgusting.
12 posted on 01/12/2012 10:22:07 AM PST by RavenLooneyToon
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To: Paladins Prayer

*** Whoopi Goldberg said the following, “This is what happens with communism.***

Same with a Rube Goldberg contraption. Great on paper. So great he used to have a Sunday cartoon strip of his contraptions.


13 posted on 01/12/2012 10:33:48 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Paladins Prayer

Couldn’t agree more. Cogently argued.


14 posted on 01/12/2012 10:35:32 AM PST by Mach9
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To: Paladins Prayer
Whoopi Goldberg is an idiot who would not understand the utter failure of communism even if if she were living in North Korea or Cuba. Ms. Goldberg should read Orwell's Animal Farm and learn how quickly some animals become more equal than others.
15 posted on 01/12/2012 10:37:44 AM PST by The Great RJ ("The problem with socialism is that pretty soon you run out of other people's money" M. Thatcher)
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To: Paladins Prayer; The_Reader_David; All
". . . a teachable moment. . . ."

T_R_D is correct. This can be a 'teachable moment' on several levels.

Goldberg's instant analysis can be used as a beginning point of examination of the reasons why America's Founders soundly rejected any such arrangement when they declared themselves free from the tyranny of a monarchy and asserted their Creator-endowed individual rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of "happiness."

Some ideas to explore include these:

1. Did the Jamestown Colonies experiment with "a community of goods" and its failure, according to Gov. Bradford's Diary allow them to come to the same conclusion as Goldberg?

2. Did their "unique idea" that individuals are just that--individuals--and that each individual's rights come from a Creator, not from any other individual, whether a king, a Parliament, or any other human power, and that those rights are, therefore, unalienable, contribute to their decision for a "We, the People's" written constitution to limit individual grant of powers to elected officials?

3. What part did their understanding of the fallibility and weaknesses of human nature play in their decision?

Several days ago, poster "spok," made a comment about the differences between the right and left in American politics. Below is a post from that thread:

"Conservatives accept human nature as it is, while the left pretends it’s otherwise. Right vs. left is the difference between reality and fantasy. And when the lefts’ illusions are destroyed, there’s nothing left but brute force and thuggery.

"Spok" speaks here of "conservatives" who understand the Founders' views on human nature, the tendency of humans to abuse power once it is delegated to them, which is the reason for the Constitution's strict and certain limitations on that power.

". . . it would be a dangerous delusion were confidence in the men of our choice to silence our fears for the safety for our rights. . . it is jealousy and not confidence which prescribes limited Constitutions to bind down those whom we are obliged to trust with power: that our Constitution has accordingly fixed the limits to which and no further our confidence may go. . . . In questions of power then let no more be heard of confidence in man but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution." - Thomas Jefferson

This Jefferson quotation is cited in Dr. George Carey's essay on "The Founding Fathers' Views of Human Nature--Critical to the Structure of the Constitution," pp. xxvii of "Our Ageless Constitution."

Carey points out that both Hamilton and Madison, in the 85 essays (THE FEDERALIST) explaining the Constitution to the people, provided "the clearest and most comprehensive picture of the Framers' views regarding human nature."

"In every government on earth is some trace of human weakness, some germ of corruption and degeneracy, which cunning will discover, and wickedness insensibly open, cultivate and improve. Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone." - Thomas Jefferson

As to today's so-called "progressives," who dream of a Utopia where they will "redistribute" away the legitimate earnings of some in order to buy power from others in the society, perhaps today's generations might consider the words of Samuel Adams:

"Is it now high time for the people of this country to explicitly declare whether they will be free men or slaves. It is an important question which ought to be decided. It concerns more than anything in this life. The salvation of our souls is interested in this event. For wherever tyranny is established, immorality of every kind comes in like a torrent, it is in the interest of tyrants to reduce the people to ignorance and vice.” - Samuel Adams

And:

“The utopian schemes of leveling and a community of goods, are as visionary and impractical as those which vest all property in the crown. These ideas are arbitrary, despotic, and, in our government unconstitutional.” - Samuel Adams

16 posted on 01/12/2012 10:40:51 AM PST by loveliberty2
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To: Paladins Prayer
One of problems with Communism is that no one much less a bunch of no ones are smart enough, quick enough, awake enough or anything enough to make it work. There is too much going on.

I can always make better decisions in a moment for myself and by extension decisions that will be better for those around me then any committee can who is down the street.

Example: I am a farmer. The Collective says, "grow wheat!" Problem is, my fields are flooded. On the ground decision would be to plant rice or some other water loving item. But I can't do that. The Collective said to grow wheat.

So either I plant wheat and watch the seed rot in the ground or argue with the Collective. Even supposing that they allow arguing it is going to take time and time is something you don't have when you are farming.

One way or another even assuming the best of all worlds there is over a 90% probability that I am not going to be growing any thing that year.

I would be better off being a peasant, at least my overlord would make a quick decision. Committees take forever to decide if they should have sandwiches or rolly-polly for lunch.

It just does not work because of the fluid nature of life.

17 posted on 01/12/2012 10:44:20 AM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (*Philosophy lesson 117-22b: Anyone who demands to be respected is undeserving of it.*)
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To: Paladins Prayer; Kaslin; Jacquerie; LS

Goldberg has opened up a real “teaching moment,” as another poster pointed out above. Perhaps some with larger “podiums” for expression should take advantage of it—for the sake of youth!!!


18 posted on 01/12/2012 10:46:58 AM PST by loveliberty2
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To: WayneS

Slavery works quite well “on paper” and otherwise - for the slave owner.

Similarly, Communism works quite well “on paper” and otherwise - for those in charge. For the “slaves” they own - and in the Communist economic system you are either a ‘master’ or a ‘slave’ - it doesn’t work out quite so well.


19 posted on 01/12/2012 10:46:58 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Paladins Prayer

communism only works when there is a gun being held to your head. =P


20 posted on 01/12/2012 10:48:32 AM PST by Marko413
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To: Personal Responsibility

It is why our government is based on Natural Law Theory-—the very philosophy which Marx threw out. For that reason, our Constitution is designed to make Marxism illegal—unconstitutional—because it goes against our inalienable rights-—to private property—freedom of thought and religion.

Marxism should be banished-—as inhumane and irrational. Anything which denies Natural laws has to be irrational-—like all their ideas about “homosexual marriage” and the anathema to the biological family—to destroy human connectedness-—to destroy civil society—so they can create tyranny.

We have allowed Marxism to be brainwashed into our children-—those ideas put into textbooks starting in the 30’s to destroy logic and reason in our children.

Dr. Counts and Dr. Ruggs wrote hundreds of the textbooks in the 30’s-—for all the New Dealers and Keynesian collective economic theories—to destroy us from within——create a mass of conformity to one way of thought-—the Marxist way.

We need to destroy their indoctrination base where this forced Prussian education system is destroying the minds of our children with cognitive dissonance and the repetition of lies about human nature as their foundational knowledge.

Promotion of homosexual “marriage” is such dissonance that is designed to destroy the Laws of Nature and Nature’s God. To destroy the philosophy behind the Constitution—Natural Law Theory. To state something as unnatural and demeaning to human beings-—as homosexual acts is genetic—destroys all logic and reason and the idea of God’s design of man. Very sick foundation of thought for children-—makes their minds mush.


21 posted on 01/12/2012 10:50:57 AM PST by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law.)
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To: Personal Responsibility
To accomplish that would require the removal of the word “I” from the language - to remove the individual consciousness. That’s not going to happen. Ever.

The Jehovah's Witnesses will not be happy! :O

22 posted on 01/12/2012 10:53:59 AM PST by The Duke
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To: Paladins Prayer

Thread header left out a word: toilet, as in “Communisim works on toilet paper”...


23 posted on 01/12/2012 11:01:13 AM PST by LRS ("This is silly! It can't be! It can't be!!" "Oh yes it is! I said you wouldn't know the joint.")
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To: Paladins Prayer

Thread header left out a word: toilet, as in “Communism works on toilet paper”...


24 posted on 01/12/2012 11:02:01 AM PST by LRS ("This is silly! It can't be! It can't be!!" "Oh yes it is! I said you wouldn't know the joint.")
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To: The_Reader_David

1000 b.c. and beyond before there was money there was the
bartering system.
An exchange of labors and goods with an agreed upon outcome.\
This was a form of communism, pure and simple.


25 posted on 01/12/2012 11:05:25 AM PST by Duffboy
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To: Paladins Prayer

Communism has never worked and never will.

Somebody’s always gonna’ want just one more potato for their family and figure out a way to get it, which makes him an instant Capitalist.


26 posted on 01/12/2012 11:14:33 AM PST by panaxanax (0bama >>WORST PRESIDENT EVER.)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

Yes, this is actually the reason that is valid. People very often say Communism is nice on paper, but can’t work due to human nature. No, it cannot work due to information flow. Human nature is a secondary problem compared to the appalling inefficiencies caused by command economies.

One simply has to read I Pencil (http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html) to understand why communism can’t work. Even were people to be perfect angels without any measure of self interest (though how any creature could survive without self interest is a whole different can of worms to discuss), the fact that information about all the details of something as complex as an economy would be completely mess up means you are destined for failure.

This reason is also much more important to hammer home because it also points out the consequences of issuing more power to a central government even if it isn’t communist. You end up with the same effect from over regulation.


27 posted on 01/12/2012 11:54:07 AM PST by drbuzzard (different league)
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To: Paladins Prayer

It only looks good on paper to those who have nothing to everyone else it looks like the cr@p it really is.


28 posted on 01/12/2012 12:21:03 PM PST by chris_bdba
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To: Paladins Prayer

2+2=5 “works” on paper, too.

See? I just typed it out, and the world didn’t end. Therefore, the fact that it doesn’t work in the real world is because the right people aren’t in charge of math.


29 posted on 01/12/2012 12:44:21 PM PST by Disambiguator
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To: loveliberty2

From the column,

“No, when the matter is a “communist” government, it is important to ask where we’ll find the angelic leaders. But an even better question is, “Where will we find the angelic followers?””

Silly Marx. Madison stated the obvious in Federalist 51: “If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”


30 posted on 01/12/2012 1:36:45 PM PST by Jacquerie (No court will save us from ourselves.)
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To: drbuzzard
Which is why even voluntary communism works only in small groups. You get more then a hundred families and even with the best will in the world it begins to fall apart.

To put it bluntly, none of us is as dumb as all of us.

31 posted on 01/12/2012 2:20:11 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (*Philosophy lesson 117-22b: Anyone who demands to be respected is undeserving of it.*)
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To: Duffboy

“1000 b.c. and beyond before there was money there was the
bartering system.
An exchange of labors and goods with an agreed upon outcome.\
This was a form of communism, pure and simple.”

You couldn’t possibly be more wrong. If these exchanges were done voluntarily, and without “gentle urging” from the state or ruler; then that is capitalism, “pure and simple”.

The “agreed upon outcome” was and is an implied contractual system that brings order to the free market and the free exchange of goods and services. Very Capitalistic!

Why do you think the barter system is all but outlawed now? It’s because it cannot be monitored or controlled by the state effectively. Marxists and Progressives have never allowed it. I think you need Economics 101.


32 posted on 01/12/2012 2:50:51 PM PST by BizBroker (Democrats- Don't want 'em, Don't need 'em, Can't use 'em, Couldn't afford 'em if I did!)
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