Skip to comments.In Defense of George Zimmerman (vanity)
Posted on 03/24/2012 9:55:26 AM PDT by TigerClaws
Since there's been a public rush to judgment and many key facts are being ignored by the MSM Ill defend Zimmerman.
1. He was walking in a public place. Nothing illegal about walking behind someone.
2. He had a legal right to his gun.
3. There were robberies in his neighborhood. Someone who didnt live there (trespass?) was walking through.
4. He called 911 but without telling the cops where to go when they arrived theres no suspect if it turns out a robbery took place.
5. He lost sight of TM and headed back to his SUV.
6. TM confronted him and started hitting him.
7. TM broke his nose.
8. Zimmerman asked a witness for help and to call 911.
9. Zimmerman fired his gun in self defense due to threat of immediate bodily harm.
Whats your case to prosecute him or even arrest Zimmerman?
Zimmerman can sue you personally for malicious prosecution so your career and wealth are 100% on the line making this decision.
PDF of Police Report:
Letter from City Manager explaining why Zimmerman was not arrested:
You’re jumping to so many conclusions, and posing scenarios that are not supported by evidence. Let me pose a scenario to you. It’s based on cell phone records, police reports (physical evidence), witness statements and Zimmerman;s statement. Zimmerman spots an unfamiliar face in the neighborhood. He calls the police. Martin runs (I don’t know why, but that is what the call to the police indicates). Zimmerman gets out of his truck to keep Martin in sight. He loses sight. He begins to return to his truck. Martin feeling disrespected or threatened (which if he did indeed turn around negates being threatened) or whatever jumps Zimmerman. Zimmerman shoots Martin in self defense.
That scenario is supported by evidence. You have absolutely none to support yours. That is why Zimmerman was not arrested that night. Period.
Yeah, I ain't planning on quitting my day job. But, then again, that job requires coming up with a factual analysis of issues.
Does your statement have any basis in law, and does it establish probable cause to arrest Zimmerman? Do you know that the law is not comprised of "what Rooivalk thinks is okay or not okay", but rather specific, articulable elements of criminal statutes?
BZZZT! Once again you continue to claim that Zimmerman confronted the deceased. Please provide ANY evidence of such, other than your own conjecture.
The act of observation set up the confrontation that resulted in the shooting. As Sherlock Holmes would say "Its elementary"
Well, first of all, duh, we know why Zimmerman was observing the deceased, he was on neighborhood watch. One can fairly debate whether or not Zimmerman's attention on Martin was justified, but there is nothing to indicate that Zimmerman did anything more than observe or follow.
YOU are the one making that assumption that Zimmerman caused the direct altercation - with absolutely no evidence to back that up.
But you have consistently pulled stuff out of your arse on this thread, and refused to provide a single link to back up any of your assertions that other posters have challenged.
Sherlock Holmes would be doing a double facepalm at your making up your own facts here.
He does seem to have a fair amount of difficulty in grasping that concept, as well as apparently being unable to differentiate opinion from fact.
You're being very short sighted and foolish. The very act of setting up a Neighborhood Watch Program was what led to this this whole incident. Banning them would save countless lives and heartache.
As Sherlock Holmes would say "Its elementary"
He got out of his car and walked into a dangerous situation. That is either bravery or folly, depending on the situation. I would not have done it.
His mistake was getting out of the truck. If he was afraid that Martin was indeed armed, he should have backed away. Pulled back and waited for the cops. Even if you are armed, close quarters in the dark after you lose sight of the guy, that is dangerous, as Zimmerman now knows.
I wouldn`t have gotten out of the truck, but that is a judgement call. Getting out of the truck doesn`t mean his intention was to confront, that he did in fact confront, or that he initiated any kind of violence.
I hope you are one of our citizens that avoids jury duty as it's folks like you that don't hear the judge's instructions to consider only the facts as entered into evidence and nothing else.
Most of the folks here differing with you state right up front that not enough is known and more information is needed. They, unlike you, are keeping an open mind....
“Being “unfamiliar” to Zimmerman was the only offense. The deceased had every reason to be in the neighborhood because he LIVED THERE. I was not aware that people had to check in with Zimmerman every time they walked the streets.”
Martin did not live there. He was visiting.
“Whoa fella you missed a couple of points: Zimmerman started FOLLOWING the deceased because in Zimmerman’s mind the person was “suspicious”. Zimmerman made that admission to the police dispatcher. The question is on what grounds did he reach this conclusion? Has anyone asked him that? Had he witnessed a crime that caused him to be suspicious of the deceased?”
I just read the transcript. Zimmerman says “Oh sh*t he’s running”, and exits the truck. He does mention Martin behaving suspiciously. Read the transcript.
“In sight of where? Was the deceased still walking down the street and Zimmerman is moving from cover to cover to, as he puts it, “keeping him in sight”? Where was Zimmerman doing the observing from? The truck or on foot?”
Zimmerman was observing Martin from the truck. Martin runs. Zimmerman exits the truck to continue observing.
“If Zimmerman was so curious wanted information on the deceased why didn’t he just drive up to the person and ID himself as the friendly neighborhood watch and tell him “...I have not seen you around here before, do you live here?” Its that simple. I have asked people that question myself in a non-threatening manner.Zimmerman’s story does not add up here”
Perhaps Zimmerman was just observing because he did not want to confront Martin with questions and risk violence? (he does mention seeing something in Martin’s waistband - perhaps he fears it may be a gun?)
“Now you have made the leap into fantasy because there is NO EVIDENCE to support this conclusion you are posting.”
Umm the evidence would be Zimmerman’s own statement of which there is nothing to contradict. Furthermore, I specifically said that what I presented was a possible scenario unlike you that presents possible scenarios as evidence.
“In order for your conclusion to work, the deceased would have to reverse the surveillance Zimmerman was conducting on him and somehow see Zimmerman and his truck. Then he would have to decide to FOLLOW Zimmerman back to his truck and start a fight.”
I presented a scenario not a conclusion. You’re the one making conclusions (based on no evidence I might add) “Reverse surveillance”? You mean like hiding around a corner and seeing Zimmerman returning to his truck? Where do you live? In a cave? You’ve never experienced youth anger due to “not giving them respect”? Please.
“it seems that somehow there was contact created by Zimmerman BEFORE returning to the truck that caused a physical struggle to ensue.”
Again where’s the proof? Pure speculation on your part.
“So he says as he tries to save his own skin”
You wouldn’t defend yourself?
“I shot so many holes in this silly idea of yours that even you now don’t believe it. Zimmerman was not arrested because he did not tell the whole story and was a friend of the cops on the force. This is why the police chief has stepped aside and tried to wash his hands of the whole situation. But the truth will come out and Zimmerman has some explaining to do.”
You did nothing of the sort. Judging by your previous posts you’d have trouble outwitting my 10 year old niece. Zimmerman was not arrested because the evidence supported his story. The burden is not on him to prove his innocence. It is on people like you to prove his guilt. Speculation and conjecture aren’t going to cut it. Come up with some proof and get back to me.
I am using my head, moron. You are the one saying Zimmerman confronted Martin. There is no evidence at this point who confronted who. You are making it up, like much of what you have posted on this thrad.
But why THIS individual? Were there other people walking around on the streets? Why did Zimmerman focus on this person?
Immaterial. The simple act of observing someone who you don't know and calling 9-11 is not a crime.
And please tell me since you seem to have the answers who gave Zimmerman the AUTHORITY to follow anyone.
Funny, I never realized you needed a permit to keep an eye on your neighborhood.
By all accounts he was a self proclaimed neighbor watch consisting of one person. Did he have a contract with the community or authorization to stop and harass people that he determined suspicious?
Once again, show us where he would need a contract or authorization. You are making up statutory arguments out of whole cloth.
For this "suspicious" tag seems to be the probable cause Zimmerman is using to explain his contact with the deceased.
Probable cause? Zimmerman is not a cop. There is no indication he walked up to Martin and demanded him to answer questions or submit to a search. So unless you can point to Florida law where a permit is required to observe your own neighborhood, this post is as full of crap as all your others on this thread.
Otherwise, "you lie".
Well, actually there IS circumstantial evidence.
Halfway through Zimmerman's 911 call, he said Martin was running away toward the other entrance. Martin's girlfriend says he told her on the phone that he had lost lost the guy tailing him.
Within about three minutes of the end of the 911 call, Zimmerman was on his back getting his nose broke.
A pudgy Zimmerman was not the one to chase down a teenage athlete on foot if Martin wanted to keep away from him. The only way that makes sense for these two to get in arms length of each other was for Martin to come back to initiate contact.
Haha! Nice catch. I hadn’t thought of that. Martin runs. Zimmerman leaves the truck to follow. Martin tells his girlfriend he’s lost Zimmerman. Zimmerman didn’t initiate contact because he had lost Martin.
It didn't. It occurred on the opposite side of a row of housed, as far away from Zimmerman's truck as it was possible to be. Lends credence to the theory Zimmerman had cut ahead of Martin to intercept him
Zimmerman told the police dispatcher that he had lost Martin.
Martin told his girlfriend he had lost Zimmerman.
How was Zimmerman supposed to initiate violence when he didn’t even know where Martin was?
Actually there are TWO other Facebook Trayvons, one in Chicago, one in Georgia.
He didn’t set up the program. He was simply a part of the problem that Neighborhood Programs cause. In this case he was the point man.
The whole system that allows these individuals this kind of power is obviously flawed and should be disbanded.
As I pointed out, your thinking was shallow and shortsighted.
The young hero would be alive today if it weren’t for the Program.
I just received a question from a pen pal friend: (caution, provocative)
What will happen on your Free Republic, when it comes out in a day or two that George Zimmerman had converted to Islam?
(I think he meant ‘if’ not ‘when’ - Rc!)
Well that lends credence to Martin being in fear from a pursuer and confronting him. I am slowly moving to Martin side on this, but still waiting to hear more better evidence. Clearly Z was over zealous to say the least. Perhaps he pushed Martin into fearing for this life, forcing Martin to either flee or fight?
I've been looking and I can't find a map showing the particulars of what happened where. Do you have a link to your info?
Zimmerman never told the disapatcher either that he lost Martin or that he was going back to his truck.
He did tell the dispatcher that he thought Martin was making for the other entrance to the community. He could well have acted on that assumption by going through the cutthrough at the the other end of the row of buildings to intercept Martin's route. Which would place the incident right where Martin's body was found.
More logical than Zimmerman dragging Martin's body from the truck to behind the row of houses
Dont know what his intention was, but on the tape that Hannity played the other day, his tone of voice, which had been matter of fact, suddenly changed and tightened up. He said They always get away. So why would he care that much? All the same same getting out of the truck took him in dangerous territory. Like following a suspect off a lighted street into a dark alley. Too easy to get blind-sided even if you have a gun in hand with the safety off.
From Zimmereman's statements to the dispatcher it appears that his truck was parked at the Twin Trees Lane bend.
Currently my belief is that Martin, not familar with the area, ran down the pathway at the end of the row of houses.
Zimmerman, familar with the area and believing Martin was making for the other entrance to the community, went through the cut-through at the other end to intercept.
“He could well have acted on that assumption by going through the cutthrough at the the other end of the row of buildings to intercept Martin’s route.”
And Zimmerman did say “I don’t know where this kid is.”
I, for one, would continue to support the rule of law and the necessity for probable cause before he can be arrested. I wouldn't accept Sharia as a departure from the law in his favor, nor will I stray from the rule of law against him simply because he is of a religion I disapprove of.
Thanks for the info.
Good. I was afraid after I posted this joke from a friend that it would stir the hornet’s nest even more than it has been stirred.
“More logical than Zimmerman dragging Martin’s body from the truck to behind the row of houses”
According to the anonymous witness the scuffle and shooting took place behind the row of houses. Who said anything about dragging a body anywhere? Man you are right out there.
Well not the specific location. right then (19:14:47)
But he had an idea where the kid was making for ("Down towards the, uh, other entrance to the neighborhood." - 19:13:23) and he was near "it’s a cut through" (19:14:33)
So speculation, but grounded in fact. Add to the fact the Martin intially ran, then phoned his girl to tell her he was going to walk fast get away from the weird dude, I'd say the encounter resulted from Zimmerman's interception is also a fair assumption.
All the people who initially claimed Zimmerman had just got out of his truck to read the street signs when Martin jumped him.
And I prefered Zimmerman dragging Martin's dead body to Martin dragging a resisting Zimmerman. I agree neither scenario seems likely.
Going back a couple of posts Zimmerman told police he was on his way back to his truck.
“Zimmerman told police Martin attacked him after he had given up chasing the teenager and was returning to his sport utility vehicle.”
As to the last post you are speculating and making assumptions. You admit as much. Get back to me when you have proof. Evidence.
Read the last sentence:
Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman are you following him. Zimmerman replied, yes. The call taker stated you dont need to do that. The call takers suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow. Zimmermans statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon.
Sorry I wasn’t one of those people that said anything about street signs or whatever.
A statement made after he had shot the young anorak and was trying to establish justifiable homicide.
It is sufficient to establish how the encounter occured from
That says the encounter was only a little over a minute after Zimmerman told the dispatcher he would not be returning to his truck.
It is Zimmerman's statement that Martin attacked him when he was returning to his truck. That is not an established fact, just the story told by a guy claiming self defense.
Photos of the REAL thug are most instructive when compared to the supposed innocent 13-yr old in the photo the family released.
That is bugging me too. Do you have a link to recent picture of Trayvon, since you seem to indicate that you have seen them? The race baiters are doing their best to make Trayvon out to be a scrawny weakling incapable of hurting a fly.
“A statement made after he had shot the young anorak and was trying to establish justifiable homicide.”
And where was it that Zimmerman told the dispatcher he wouldn’t be returning to his truck?
Don’t bother responding. I have no interest in discussing speculation etc.
If you fancy yourself some kind of cyber sleuth you’ll have to come up with some facts at some point.
I went to the Facebook page where that "gangsta" picture was posted. I looked through several of his friends and could not find one from the Sanford, FL area, which I find odd for a high school student. I did find several in the Savannah, GA area, so I am guessing that is not the same Trayvon Martin.
Another odd thing, as I was looking for his real Facebook page earlier, the search returned tons of people who had changed their profile name to Trayvon Martin, some mixing it with their own name, some not. Its almost like a concerted effort to roadblock anyone searching for Trayvon's page.
I support Zimmerman unless facts warrant a different decision on my part. I have since this became the number 1 news story for days on end. It is madness. I have friends of mine posting about it on FB, and I get so ticked off about the rampant evil that has taken over this country. The evil that to disagree with them is to be labelled a racist. I don’t consider this a tragedy, per se. A tragedy means Trayvon was innocent. I am not so sure of it, but given the massive astroturfing manufactured outrage at this case, I may never change my mind.
Thanks Semper Fi. FreedomPoster is looking for these also. Can you send them to him as well?
“I would very much like to see some contemporaneous pics of TM of FL.”
Odd, is it not, that the family and friends of the thug are hiding recent pictures? Heck, no school year-book photos, either.
Perhaps, maybe, the little innocent-looking baby-faced cherub was not the little angel the media want to portray him as?