In Defense of George Zimmerman (vanity)

[TigerClaws]

Since there's been a public rush to judgment and many key facts are being ignored by the MSM I’ll defend Zimmerman.

1. He was walking in a public place. Nothing illegal about walking behind someone.

2. He had a legal right to his gun.

3. There were robberies in his neighborhood. Someone who didn’t live there (trespass?) was walking through.

4. He called 911 but without telling the cops where to go when they arrived there’s no suspect if it turns out a robbery took place.

5. He lost sight of TM and headed back to his SUV.

6. TM confronted him and started hitting him.

7. TM broke his nose.

8. Zimmerman asked a witness for help and to call 911.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

9. Zimmerman fired his gun in self defense due to threat of immediate bodily harm.

Okay?

What’s your case to prosecute him or even arrest Zimmerman?

Zimmerman can sue you personally for malicious prosecution so your career and wealth are 100% on the line making this decision.

PDF of Police Report:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf

Letter from City Manager explaining why Zimmerman was not arrested:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf

[jwalsh07]

A timeline is irrelevant as is the canard that a 911 dispatcher ordered Zimmerman off. 911 dispatchers can not issue lawful orders and suggestions aren’t orders anyway. I think Zimmerman was wrong for bothering the kid but unless Zimmerman started the fight Martin took his life in his hands by beating Zimmerman down and paid the ultimate price. I’m 60 with a leg that doesn’t work as well as it used to because of a life time of hard work and crappy discs. In a street fight I’m not the man I used to be and if I find myself getting my face smashed in I don’t want it to be unlawful for me to shoot the young guy doing the smashing if I believe my life is in danger.

Tough cases make bad law and anybody who doesn’t think the Obama crowd isn’t doing this to turn back stand your ground isn’t following along.

[Eva]

People cannot expect details of Zimmerman’s testimony to be released. What we have now is what the eye witness has said and the fact that the police say that it confirms the story that they got from Zimmerman.

[dirtboy]

I think the timeline would be important as to how the fighting started. That really is the piece of the puzzle that I have not seen answered so far.

I agree if Martin attacked Zimmerman out of the blue, then Zimmerman had every right to defend himself with lethal force, from the sound of things. But if the fistfight started with a face-to-face confrontation that went south, that IMO could change things somewhat. I just think we don't know enough at this point, and some kind of addition evidence could be in the possession of the police that clarifies the situation - but they are not about to let it out to the public given how polarized this matter has become.

[dirtboy]

This is why trying to reconstruct events from Zimmerman's version, as you term it, is just a load of caca. Zimmerman is trying to pose events to make himself look good and the otherside of what happened will never be told since Zimmerman killed the only eye witness to those events.

First of all, your reconstruction is a load of caca since I have not seen you back up your assertions with links. Second, there was at least one other witness to at least part of the altercation, so you are wrong there as well.

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

[jwalsh07]

Given the POTUS fanning the flames I would think they would release everything with witness names redacted. President Fahrenheit 451 and his Lt’s like Jackson, Sharpton, the Black Panthers and Spike lee need some ice cold water thrown in their faces.

If some black guy kills Zimmerman you know that some Hispanic gang will take it upon themselves to even the score. This could get real ugly real fast and the moron in the WH isn’t smart enough to know it. Dips3it.

[TigerClaws]

Zimmerman called the police and was waiting for them to arrive. He likely would then give them Treyvon’s address to question him and go back to his own neighborhood and see if any neighbors had found anything stolen.

Zimmerman had zero incentive to start the fight. He had the police on the way.

Treyvon, however, told his girlfriend he was being followed. Did Treyvon call police or ask her to? No, he confronted Zimmerman.

Treyvon was seen on top of Zimmerman beating him. Zimmerman isn’t legally obligated to let someone kill or seriously injure him (Zimmerman already had a broken nose). He used his gun to defend himself as he had the right to do.

Zimmerman should not have followed what he believed to be a dangerous thief and he was a wannabe cop. He did nothing illegal though and that’s why he wasnt arrested.

Nobody has the guts to say it but Treyvon was the bad actor here and is dead as a result of his own violent actions.

[ArmstedFragg]

I agree the puzzle is far from complete.

Notwithstanding how the conflict originated, the only real issue is proportionality of force. If Martin said something offensive and Zimmerman responded by shooting him, there’s no self defense case. If Zimmerman said something offensive and the kid responded by trying to beat him to death, there’s a clear self defense case.

It’s important to keep the issue of how the confrontation began separate from how it played out once it was underway. The appropriate response to an officious idiot (if, in fact that’s how Zimmerman was acting) is to tell him off, not try to beat him to death (if, in fact, that’s what the kid was trying to do).

The was a case a couple of decades ago in my hometown where a black youth killed a police officer, and claimed the killing was justified because the officer had used a “bad word”. The kid managed to get off on the charge in part because his lawyer worked very hard to polute the jury pool. I suspect the family’s lawyer is involved in a similar effort, with an eye toward the eventual civil suit.

[Wissa]

This could get real ugly real fast and the moron in the WH isn’t smart enough to know it.

Or maybe he's hoping for enough civil unrest to justify calls for postponing the elections.

Just for a short time of course.

Just until the crisis is past.

[dirtboy]

I agree entirely that Obama, once again, stepped in where he had no business going and has helped make a bad situation worse.

Beyond that, no matter what comes out now, it won't satisfy the mob going after Zimmerman. Someone could produce a cell phone video of Martin smashing Zimmerman in the face with a brick and that still would not get them to call off the dogs.

[ArmstedFragg]

It’s worth noting that the name Zimmerman plays into the Jackson “Hymietown” ethos too.

[dirtboy]

Notwithstanding how the conflict originated, the only real issue is proportionality of force. If Martin said something offensive and Zimmerman responded by shooting him, there’s no self defense case. If Zimmerman said something offensive and the kid responded by trying to beat him to death, there’s a clear self defense case.

And another factor is who initiated the actual fighting. If Zimmerman started the physical aspect of the fight, he has far less justification for using deadly force if he's getting his a** kicked in a fight he started. I don't think that is what happened, but we just don't know enough.

[Rooivalk]

How do you know Zimmerman confronted or interfered with Martin?

This is what we DO know: The deceased was on his way home from the store. He and Zimmerman "somehow" crossed paths.

Now NO EVIDENCE has been presented that the deceased was involved in a crime. Therefore the question that must be answered is that how did the deceased come to the attention of Zimmerman? And Zimmerman who had acted on other occasions as a "self appointed neighborhood watchman" (this is by his own admission), was "out on patrol" and somehow OBSERVES the deceased and states as his probable cause the deceased was "suspicious", (again the reason given by Zimmerman during the conversation with the police dispatcher)

So Zimmerman decides to shadow or otherwise stalk the deceased either on foot or from within his vehicle.(Again this is from the running conversation Zimmerman is having with the police dispatcher.

Zimmerman is ADVISED not to confront or contact the deceased by the police dispatcher. Everyone agrees on that point

Somewhere along the line Zimmerman DOES establish contact and a struggle ensues that results in Zimmerman shooting the deceased.

The question is WHY did Zimmerman establish contact even after being informed that the police were on there way and that he should stand down?

What did Zimmerman do that caused the struggle to break out? Did he attempt to detain the deceased at gunpoint? Was there a struggle over the gun? Did Zimmerman order the deceased to stop and submit to a search? Did Zimmerman attempt to lay hands on the deceased? What?

Any attempt by Zimmerman to get physical would result in a fight.

[ArmstedFragg]

“in the face with a brick”

Little Reginald Denny memory there.

[FreedomPoster]

If you guys find any, please ping me.

There are some claimed ones that have been debunked as being those of another, younger, Trayvon Martin of Savannah, GA, not of FL.

There are some others that look like they *might* be of TM of FL, but I don’t know their providence and cannot claim them as such.

I would very much like to see some contemporaneous pics of TM of FL.

[ArmstedFragg]

Yeah, agreed.

[dirtboy]

Somewhere along the line Zimmerman DOES establish contact and a struggle ensues that results in Zimmerman shooting the deceased.

BZZZT! Once again, you have no proof that it was Zimmerman who initiated the direct contact. Martin could have gotten upset that Zimmerman was monitoring him and turned to confront Zimmerman. We simply don't know.

Try formulating your opinions around actual, demonstrable facts and if there are no facts, leave that aspect as an unknown until we get more information.

[ArmstedFragg]

Try formulating your opinions around actual, demonstrable facts

You realize, I suppose, that you have no future in broadcast journalism, right?

[Rooivalk]

I agree entirely that Obama, once again, stepped in where he had no business going and has helped make a bad situation worse.

Things were already worse since the police and decided to clear Zimmerman with the most perfunctory of investigations and declared the case closed

Zimmerman's claim of "standing his ground" was accepted as is, and that was it. Now people are looking a little deeper into events and much is coming to light that had been swept under the rug.

[101stAirborneVet]

with the most perfunctory of investigations and declared the case closed

Lie. Witness statements were taken, Detectives combed the scene, crime scene technicians gathered physical evidence, Zimmerman was questioned, his firearm was taken as evidence, phone records were obtained... What is "perfunctory" about that?

Zimmerman's claim of "standing his ground" was accepted as is, and that was it.

Lie. His claim matched the evidence that was gathered, and no evidence refuting his claim could be found by police.

Why are you lying?

[dirtboy]

Things were already worse since the police and decided to clear Zimmerman with the most perfunctory of investigations and declared the case closed Zimmerman's claim of "standing his ground" was accepted as is, and that was it. Now people are looking a little deeper into events and much is coming to light that had been swept under the rug.

Man, pulling stuff out of your a** sure comes naturally to you. Please provide proof that the initial investigation was perfunctory. Please also provide proof that anything was swept under the rug.

I guess your definition of 'perfunctory' is an investigation that doesn't fit your own clear biases here.