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(Vanity) German Shepherd Needs Good Home Quickly (Help a FReeper out -Mod)
Self | 3/30/12 | Pops88

Posted on 03/30/2012 7:26:44 PM PDT by pops88

I just sent the following to someone involved with animal rescue, and wanted to share with Freepers. It's been a very hard day here :

I found out last night my family has to move overseas in the next 5 days because of my husband's job. I have a highly intelligent, well trained, well behaved, 4 year old German Shepherd. If I can't find a foster or permanent home, he will have to be euthanized. I've worked with him extensively. He's obedient and knows many commands, but he's not been able to be socialized to other people or animals. From the time he was a puppy he was fearful of other people and I was unable change that behavior. As a family pet, he has been wonderful. He was neutered as soon as possible to avoid problems with dominance issues. Some of the commands he knows: sit, stay, lie down, leave it, drop it, take, put (here,) give, find (person/specific toy), back up,wait, shake,kiss, crate, etc.

He is pool safe. He does not enter bedrooms or bathrooms unless on command. He does not get on furniture or eat food that has not been given to him. He will not take food from counters, coffee tables or the garbage. He is housebroken. If his water is empty he will nudge his dish and sit and wait. If a toy is taken away and put up he will not try to take it back. He doesn't beg at the table. When I'm cooking he goes and lies down. He is in good health and not over weight.

He can be a big ham with doe eyes or a head plant on a knee when he wants attention. He's so smart and communicative that I've referred to him as our toddler. He was taught to heel as a puppy, but because of his fear and aggression with strangers and other animals he has not been walked on a leash for several years. He's had to be confined to our home and backyard. My husband is a pilot and was unemployed several times in the last few years because of the economy. It's been a real struggle for us. We didn't have the money to take him to a professional trainer to deal with his socialization issues, and he was too big for me to handle on walks. He would be an absolutely wonderful dog for someone willing to work with him.

I've kept a file on all his vet records and papers (purebred from East German blood lines.) We absolutely hate the thought of having to take him to the Humane Society and be put down when he's such a wonderful dog otherwise, but again, we have to move overseas on extremely short notice and we're all pretty much in shock. I live in Las Vegas and expect to be driving to Los Angeles on Tuesday.


TOPICS: Announcements
KEYWORDS: dangerousdog; dog; doggie; doggieping; dogping; germanshepherd; gsd; gsdping; home; shepherd
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To: pops88

Just to reiterate, Posts 53-55.

But you’re probably already talking to them. ;-)


101 posted on 03/31/2012 11:55:06 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel
"‘Aldawin. And a small bit of trivia- my 13 year old, who had been home schooled, was taking German her first semester at UNLV and decided to give him a German name. We later discovered it means “old friend.”’ Sorry, I have to comment! (I know it’s irrelevent, but...I can’t help myself!) “Alt(e)” and its variants means old (never a D substitute), but friend is Freund(e). Doesn’t strike me as German at all. Never heard of such a name, either, in German itself or German dogs."

That's funny, because when we told our German neighbor what his name was, he lit up, looked delighted, said, "Aww!" and nodded knowingly towards us. That's when my daughter decided to researched it, so perhaps her research sources at the university were wrong. But thanks for not slamming me for being an evil person because I might not be able to find a home for my dog in time. Nit picking over name origins during a crisis is much kinder.

At this point, my husband is going to be euthanized. My daughter and I packed our most important things in a day. I was up till 4 am emailing Freepers, rescue groups, and others. As I said, we had a very stable life up until the last 2-3 years (thanks Bammy) when the economy turned to crap and my husband has had, I think, 4 different jobs. We had to cash out both our 401k's. We've been barely making it until he was blessed with this job. He flies a private jet. He gets one month off a year to come home from overseas...maybe. The plane moves on the owner's whim. He knew concretely he was coming to L.A. in 3 days, didn't know if the plane would even be back here in the next year because they don't come to L.A. very often, and wanted to move us while he was here because we can put most of our stuff on the plane, except our dog. Now, I think he feels terribly guilty for the turmoil because he emailed me that the plane will be full out of L.A., I'd have to sit in the back with "staff," and he thinks it might be back in July. And pigs might fly, too. So, at this point, I just don't know.... If we don't leave Tues., I'll be finding a professional trainer, which will probably not be in Vegas since the one here says he's full and has worse dogs he's working with. And I get to look forward to maybe seeing my husband, and my daughter seeing her father, next July, maybe. Regardless, my dog will need to be re-homed because he can't live in hotels with us until we figure out which house in which country the boss stays at most often.
102 posted on 03/31/2012 12:02:11 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: pops88

Check your FRmail.

Yet. Again.


103 posted on 03/31/2012 12:16:14 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma (PRAY for this country like your life depends on it......because it DOES!)
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To: DefeatCorruption

Hopefully there is a rescue group or a private citizen who can take him, and I’m not railing at anyone who suggested one. He’s a handsome lad and I’d give it some serious thought myself if not for my 4 cats.

Sadly, the reality is, if no one can take him, no one will foster him, no police department or Army recruiter or anything else can be convinced of his need, it may be genuinely kinder to put him to sleep humanely than to turn him out into the streets to starve or be hit by a car. I utterly hate the idea as much as you do, but part of owning an animal is not letting them suffer.

The OP is going to have enough misery over this no matter what the results. Adding to it doesn’t help.


104 posted on 03/31/2012 12:19:35 PM PDT by Fire_on_High (WTB new tagline, PST!)
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To: LADY J

“What happens when visitors come to the house? Is he aggressive to them? What happens when you take him to the vet?”

The last time I took him to the vet, his first visit after neutering and after he’d developed serious aggression issues, my husband and I took him together, sedated, muzzled, and with a double lead to a regular and dominant dog collar. Despite the sedation and dominant dog collar, my husband and I could barely control him enough to get his rabies shot. The vet told us not to come back, then later apologized when he realized we were trying to be responsible dog owners by calling ahead for sedation, etc., and the dog was just scared.

My older daughter came to visit recently for a week. I had her send a t-shirt so my dog could get used to her scent and know it was “mommy’s XXXX,” someone special to me. I had my dog muzzled and on the double lead, with plenty of space so he wouldn’t feel cornered. His reaction was to try to immediately, viscously attack her. I was able to get him to not try to attack at her, but after 4 days I knew I couldn’t take his muzzle off around her and it was just making everyone miserable including the dog. The look in his eyes made it clear that she was toast if his muzzle came off.

When strangers come to the house, he looks to me to protect him and close his crate door or put him in the bathroom. He will bark the entire time they’re here. I rarely get phone calls, except from the gardener telling he’s here. When my phone rings, my dog barks and makes motions to be put in a safe place. I’m the Alpha female and he expects me to protect him, and he’ll attack anyone that’s a threat to his “pack.”


105 posted on 03/31/2012 12:44:17 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

“You obviously don’t understand classified info. There is such a thing. I’m assuming so I am not pushing the issue. They cannot tell. In fact, she probably is not allowed to know.”

Yes there are security issues and I’m trying to be both vague enough, yet specific enough for people to understand. My husband doesn’t fly a little BBJ.


106 posted on 03/31/2012 1:04:22 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: pops88

How about the FReepers in posts 53-55? Each of them seemed ready to help!

I guess if a German person thought the name was German, it must be - although perhaps it’s a regional “dialect” thing, or the way the person heard it. I could ask my uncle and my cousin, both perfectly fluent in German (my cousin got a job in Germany starting last year, to teach English to Germans, and vice-versa for the Army people - she and her husband used to be in the Army stationed there many years).

Anyway, sorry for all this tumult in your lives and over the dog. I hope everything works out. Please check here as much as you can in case someone from the GS board actually responds positively to this!


107 posted on 03/31/2012 1:05:53 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: HairOfTheDog

Her husband flies a private jet for an employer outside of this country who apparently will never have another day off in this lifetime...and there will be room for everything they own, except their dog, packed into the back of a crowded jet along with staff. He might be back in July..3 months from now... if pigs fly. Since Obama, he’s had 4 jobs, so how long will this one last? Not enough reason (at least in my world) to put down an innocent pet who deserves a better chance than this. Four days is not enough time to do the right thing and the death solution is probably something she’d regret for the rest of her life.


108 posted on 03/31/2012 1:15:15 PM PDT by DefeatCorruption
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To: pops88

http://germanshepherd.rescueme.org/SouthDakota

http://www.gsrsv.org/OtherWebSites.htm

http://germanshepherd.rescueshelter.com/Arizona scroll dow for complete list of all GSD rescue groups in AZ (and a few surrounding)

T-E-A-L (Shelter #1112039) x
Tooele County Tooele, UT 84074 MAP IT
CONTACT: Judy 435-849-5525; Jennifer 435-849-5565; Britt 435-849-5551; SkyIar 435-849-5545
We take in unwanted or discarded or abused German Shepherds. We own a ranch and do this in addition. We pickup at no charge and provide the dogs with Ioving care, food and sheIter, medication for heaIth probIems.

Here’s a few links/contacts for you; hope it helps, and isn’t all duplication of your efforts. Good luck on finding him a home. Our “stepson” (belongs to friends) came to them via Brittany Rescue; these groups do great work...if they aren’t swamped.


109 posted on 03/31/2012 1:31:29 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch ("Public service" does NOT mean servicing the people, like a bull among heifers.)
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To: R.I.chopper

Send your email to Pops by private reply.


110 posted on 03/31/2012 1:31:29 PM PDT by calex59
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To: DefeatCorruption

“Her husband flies a private jet for an employer outside of this country who apparently will never have another day off in this lifetime...and there will be room for everything they own, except their dog, packed into the back of a crowded jet along with staff.”

My husband flies at the whim of his employer. They don’t put cargo in the back of the jet. It goes in the belly. I would have to sit in the back with a bunch of foreigners, and “full” means there’s lots of people but actually still a fair amount of seating.

“He might be back in July..3 months from now... if pigs fly. Since Obama, he’s had 4 jobs, so how long will this one lasTht?”

The captain has been employed for over 10 years. The boss doesn’t fire people because he doesn’t want his plane to be down, he doesn’t want to have to find a foreigner that will put up with being on call 24/7, living in a foreign country, and willing to be away from his family 11 months a year. My husband is really happy to have a First Officer job with no one available to replace him because they don’t have an HR department and very few Americans will work under those conditions.

Please feel free to continue posting out of ignorance and attacking me. I respect your 1st admendment right.


111 posted on 03/31/2012 1:42:30 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

You have been SO kind to the poster throughout all of this.

I’ll just stop at that.

Thank you!!!


112 posted on 03/31/2012 1:50:00 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma (PRAY for this country like your life depends on it......because it DOES!)
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To: pops88

Way back, I went to a breeder to get one cute little puppy. Two in the litter both glommed onto me, and I had a rough time picking which one (I had first pick). After I got home (I had to go back in two weeks to pick him up) I talked with the breeder, and nobody after me picked the second one - he was the only one with no home. Dumbly, I said “What the hell! Double the trouble, double the fun!” Even dumber, I proceeded to spoil both throughout their puppyhoods, and never asserted dominance.

A year later I had two big violent monsters trying to kill each other any time they were together, and it was wild.

I got a choke, read everyting on training, and put in an hour a day with each. No go.

Dominant Dog Pinch collar, muzzles, and Don Sullivan video’s. One actually tried to nip me through a muzzle for correcting him with a pinch collar. How dare I! And they still wanted to kill each other. Why did Sullivan make it look so easy?

Prong collars, heeling, down commands, Stay, no effect. It was like they didn’t feel pain, and could care less if I broke their legs with a baseball bat. Worse they were going to kill each other.

It was horrible, with both separated in the house, and the fear that they would get at each other someday somehow, and do real damage.

Finally, I blew ~$170 each on the Sportdog 400s electric training collar. It is a high voltage training collar for stubborn dogs which shocks them on the neck with a variable voltage you set, levels 1-8. You teach them down with it, and that they will get shocked if they don’t go down. The shocks will provoke yelps on higher settings, so they will learn very quickly how to go down and stay there. Two dogs who ignored the prong collar corrections were terrified of the shocks. I would have been horrified by this before, but I was totally out of options.

First time I let the two of them together they began to go at it, and I hit them with shocks on the remote(three out of eight) as I yelled down. Both looked shocked and confused for a moment, then dropped, and stopped their aggression cold. They even put their heads on the ground. I have never needed to use the seven or eight setting, ever.

Now that both see me as dominant, and they know I will not allow fighting without shocks, they both play with each other, and are together constantly, without fighting (Though there is an occaisional disagreement, usually a growl, followed by both stopping and slowly laying down while looking at me.)

That collar saved me. I couldn’t just dump one on another person, and keep the other one. They both were blindly loyal to me - one of them would have been crushed.

I know it’s late now, but file away, Sportdog 400s. I am convinced that it can cure just about anything behavioral, save from some really genetic stuff. Once you teach the dog to go down, they accept their role as a submissive. If you put him in a down, and let your daughter near him (while muzzled), and then shocked him when he growled, he would have stopped growling, and eventually let her do anything to him. If any sign of aggression got a shock, he would have knocked it off. Breaking that cycle is all it takes.

I know, because both mine would eventually lay their heads on each other on the couch sometimes. It works, and it doesn’t traumatize the dog. It just conditions the dog to go submissive when it would have gone aggressive.

Let us know how it turns out. Worst case, drop him at a shelter, and let Freepers here visit, and try to place him over the internet. Sometiems just changing a home is enough to make a dog submissive. One of my best friends was a wolf hybrid which attacked his owner repeatedly, and was set to be put down. Stunningly beautiful dog. I took him, and he just fell in under me, and was the best dog you could ever want, without a hint of violence or aggression towards me. It is possible that if he is the new guy in a pack, he will accept an omega position.

For the record, I would take him, but I already have more dogs than I can handle responsibly.

Good luck, and please let us know when you find a solution.


113 posted on 03/31/2012 2:17:05 PM PDT by AnonymousConservative (Why did Liberals evolve within our species? www.anonymousconservative.com)
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To: AnonymousConservative

Where did you buy your Sportdog? I’m looking to replace our dying (OLD) Innotek ones...


114 posted on 03/31/2012 2:25:38 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma (PRAY for this country like your life depends on it......because it DOES!)
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To: pops88

Only commenting on information supplied by you. Many families are separated all the time so it seems crazy that you can’t manage to take a few extra days to make sure your pet gets situated. Hasn’t he earned a few extra days when his life, if he gets to keep it, depends upon your decision? Seems like Obamacare. And sorry if you feel you’ve been attacked, but maybe you needed reminding that this living breathing dog loves and depends on you for his life and well-being. You threw the euthanasia card right out there from the getgo - It sounds as if you’re saying take-my-dog-or-he dies situation. It’s distressing to Freepers who read your post, especially for those who love their pets and animals in general. Hopefully FR Post 109 will be helpful in saving your dog’s life.


115 posted on 03/31/2012 2:27:17 PM PDT by DefeatCorruption
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To: AnonymousConservative

My dog knows I’m dominant, the Alpha, and is perfectly obedient at home unless he sees a person or animal. I would have to tazer him senseless. He’s not really a candidate for an electric collar. His dominant dog collar is designed to cut off his air supply without doing physical damage so he’ll either get a clue or pass out. Several times he’s come close to passing out while still trying to attack, which allowed me turn him away and drag him into the house. I’ve trained multiple dogs over my lifetime, read volumes on dog training, been to obedience classes and worked personally with a dog trainer. My dog needs someone who is knowledgeable and experienced and can work with a dog like mine.

“Once you teach the dog to go down, they accept their role as a submissive. If you put him in a down, and let your daughter near him (while muzzled), and then shocked him when he growled, he would have stopped growling, and eventually let her do anything to him.”

How do you teach a dog that has gone submissive, stays submissive, doesn’t growl, allows the stranger to pet them, but by his eyes says he’s killing when the muzzle comes off? How do you discipline a thought crime?


116 posted on 03/31/2012 2:44:10 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: Brad's Gramma

I got a really good deal on the 400s at the time on Ebay, but don’t remember the seller - It was way back. Probably wouldn’t matter as he wouldn’t have them anymore anyway. I got the impression from the price he just had some sort of excess stock from somewhere. Somebody on E-bay will have them now, though.

I more 400 collars in the last couple of years at petsafe, only about $140 each.

There’s an important difference between the two. I got the 400s on the theory that the two dogs I had at the time weren’t exactly bred for following commands, or acknowledging discipline/pain (I had a similar “designer” dog who died which I was trying to replicate due to intelligence/bonding/personality/thoughtfulness - I should have known better, but didn’t).

They were pretty tough and I figured since they had just totally ignored the prong collar and the muzzles, and were designed for adverse, painful conditions, I needed the extra shock. It worked quite well to stop the fighting, and bring them under control.

I have since tried the 400s on more domesticated breeds, and it isn’t really usuable - even on average temperments in more aggressive domesticated breeds. Setting one produces an unnoticable shock they ignore, and setting two will have them jumping, yelping, and panicking. On the first two dogs, setting four produces a little neck twitch, so the collar really is for stubborn dogs who can’t be trained.

This effect on domestics is very pronounced, so be warned, if you have a normal pet dog, the 400 is definitely the only option for training. If you have a really violent predisposition in an aggressive breed, and it has not responded to pain in any other form, like here, my first concern would be to be sure I could get control during an attack, and worry about getting him to sit/stay/heel later.


117 posted on 03/31/2012 3:23:56 PM PDT by AnonymousConservative (Why did Liberals evolve within our species? www.anonymousconservative.com)
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To: DefeatCorruption

“Many families are separated all the time so it seems crazy that you can’t manage to take a few extra days to make sure your pet gets situated. Hasn’t he earned a few extra days when his life, if he gets to keep it, depends upon your decision? Seems like Obamacare. And sorry if you feel you’ve been attacked, but maybe you needed reminding that this living breathing dog loves and depends on you for his life and well-being. You threw the euthanasia card right out there from the getgo - It sounds as if you’re saying take-my-dog-or-he dies situation. It’s distressing to Freepers who read your post, especially for those who love their pets and animals in general.”

My apologies for distressing you.

“it seems crazy that you can’t manage to take a few extra days to make sure your pet gets situated.”

Well, after throwing a bag of clothes together and one box of our most vital items (birth certificates, passports, marriage licence), the rest of the time I have been devoted to trying to find a home for my dog. I’m not packing up my house, wrapping my china and glassware, putting my appliances or cookware in boxes. I’m trying to find a home for my dog and the rest can be damned. I can pay someone to deal with packing up the house after I’m gone.

“And sorry if you feel you’ve been attacked, but maybe you needed reminding that this living breathing dog loves and depends on you for his life and well-being.”

I was a NICU RN for 14 years keeps babies alive every day. Do you think for one second that escapes me?

“You threw the euthanasia card right out there from the getgo - It sounds as if you’re saying take-my-dog-or-he dies situation.”

Well excuse me I wasn’t aware there were no kill shelters where I am. I honestly thought if my dog had to go to a shelter that, yes, they would kill him. I also don’t want a shelter to be the last option.


118 posted on 03/31/2012 3:25:39 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: R.I.chopper
Contact Operation Roger. It's a 501c3 group of truckers who transport dogs on their regular runs. http://operationroger.rescuegroups.org/info/display?PageID=4377
119 posted on 03/31/2012 3:42:21 PM PDT by Shannon
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To: pops88

“he sees a person or animal. I would have to tazer him senseless”

The collar creates a buring, searing pain which the dog can’t stand. He will not be able to focus on the attack, while that pain is wracking him. That break in his focus, as he reflexively looks at his neck, and jumps away from the pain, is all you need to get his attention on you and seize control.

Those collars which cut off the air supply don’t produce the same effect, trust me. The sudden *shock* is not there.

“How do you discipline a thought crime?”

I haven’t seen your dog personally, but I suspect the problem is he didn’t have the *shock* which the collar gives, every time he thought about attacking in the beginning. That sudden shock is what triggers the amygdala, produces aversive stimuli, and conditions him to look to you, and follow your command.

Like I said, I have seen two dogs who couldn’t be stopped from fighting become so conditioned to not growl or threaten, that they actually liked each other. I know for a fact that dominant dog collar wouldn’t have produced that effect, as it would have been just like a prong, without the surprise or pain.

Try new things. You can’t knock them until they fail you personally.

Good luck.


120 posted on 03/31/2012 3:42:44 PM PDT by AnonymousConservative (Why did Liberals evolve within our species? www.anonymousconservative.com)
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To: AnonymousConservative

Thank you for the information, but I did also look at shock collars and did research. From my research, from experts, it was said a dog like mine needed a dominant dog collar and not a shock collar. His drive and focus are too strong and pain would not, will not deter him. I agreed with that assessment after working with my dog extensively.


121 posted on 03/31/2012 3:51:52 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: AnonymousConservative; pops88
Pops88
I can only pray that whoever takes this dog never uses a shock collar on him. To anyone who would suggest such a barbaric training method, I'd say they should try it on their own neck. All it teaches a dog is to expect pain when he's faced with something that scares him.

AnonymousConservative,
As for choking the air out of your dog while "the pain is wracking him", do you have any idea how brutal you come across? Have you never heard of positive reinforcement training or do you just prefer brutal methods?

I'm not going to check back to see any comments proclaiming the virtues of shocking and/or choking the air out of a dog so don't expect any replies should you decide to flame me in order to justify your cruel training methods. I pick my battles and you're not one of them but people need to know you're anything but an expert on training dogs. Salesman, maybe. Expert, no way.
122 posted on 03/31/2012 4:01:43 PM PDT by Shannon
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To: pops88

Experts can be wrong. The cost of the collar would have been nothing, if it alleviated your problems.

Plus they might not have been aware Sportdog made the 400s, which is a *lot* stronger than the average training collar. No way your dog would have ignored this pain. He would have panicked, tried to figure out where it was coming from, looked to you, and that would have been the moment you needed to seize control.

Again, I haven’t seen your dog, but I had two, from a “breed” which was reputed to be untrainable (another I had of the same “breed” was the best trained dog I ever had - so much for the experts), they were out of control, and wholly ignoring me, the prong collars, my commands, and everything else.

Within minutes of being shocked, I was in control and they were going down with no questions and staying there. And within minutes of being together, they weren’t fighting.

Those dogs knew no pain, but they were easily controlled with the collar. Just file it away that it’s possible - it could prove useful someday.


123 posted on 03/31/2012 4:05:50 PM PDT by AnonymousConservative (Why did Liberals evolve within our species? www.anonymousconservative.com)
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To: AnonymousConservative

I’ve had them for a couple of years now. All I need is tone IF IF IF IF IF someone decides to wander a little further than they should. AND, when Taffi takes off in high prey drive, after a coyote. (I up the ante, full bore in that case cuz I can’t see around the corner and don’t know if it’s a single coyote or a pack).

We’re TEMPORARILY living in a (stupid) place with no SINGLE backyard, so ... the stupid HOA, grumpy neighbor next door...I keep them on when they go outside for that reason...

I’ll never forget the first time I hit Taffi at #2 or 3 ....

Got her attention, right away. ;)


124 posted on 03/31/2012 4:10:02 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma (PRAY for this country like your life depends on it......because it DOES!)
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To: Shannon

“As for choking the air out of your dog while “the pain is wracking him”, do you have any idea how brutal you come across?”

Seriously. My dominant dog collar is used as the last resort for getting an out of control, vicious, dangerous dog under control without harm to one’s self. It is NOT for normal training. It’s for keeping the dog from killing. My dog is completely under my command at all times unless he sees a strange person or another animal. Then his drive, focus and instinct kicks in and he’s ready to fight to the death regardless of what pain he might feel. Under normal conditions, all I have to say is “no” and he stops what he’s doing. Aside from finances, one of the reasons I didn’t want to send him for professional training is because it usually involves practices I consider inhumane. I’d rather keep him bubble dog than let someone treat him cruely under the guise of training.


125 posted on 03/31/2012 4:22:50 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: pops88
Oh, just put one on each leg, thigh, neck, torso....

Kidding!!!! ;)

126 posted on 03/31/2012 4:27:00 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma (PRAY for this country like your life depends on it......because it DOES!)
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To: Brad's Gramma

So what are mental health professionals making these days ‘cause I think I need to send you a check?


127 posted on 03/31/2012 5:02:33 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: pops88

LOL!!!

You saw, I see.............it’s getting crazy over there. :)

One dear lady just offered to buy me a bottle of Merlot. Har!


128 posted on 03/31/2012 5:06:10 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma (PRAY for this country like your life depends on it......because it DOES!)
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To: AnonymousConservative

“No way your dog would have ignored this pain.”

LOL. He’s been near unconsciousness a couple times when he wanted to kill something. What is the setting just shy of “electric chair” with that? Can you recommend a way to get rid of the burning hair smell? Peddle your collar to someone else. I’m familiar them. They are not suited for my dog’s situation.


129 posted on 03/31/2012 5:15:23 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: pops88

Sorry dear. I didn’t mean, in my reply to you, that you failed to socialize him. I worded my reply badly. It sounds like you went waaaay out of your way to do the best but it just didn’t take.

I’ve also had dogs around me for my entire life. Some just never lose the wild aspect. I had a Belgian Sheepdog, at the ripe old age of 14, that bit me and resulted in 300 stitches to my face. Luckily, a wonderful plastic surgeon was on staff that night and I hardly have any scars.

It just goes to show, you never know. They are animals after all. We have a Jack Russell Terrier now. I figure he can’t maim me as much as a big dog which I’ve always had in the past. Our Newfoundland was the most gentle guy so that logic doesn’t always work. :0)


130 posted on 03/31/2012 5:22:16 PM PDT by mplsconservative (Impeach Obama Now!)
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To: mplsconservative

I didn’t take your reply negatively at all, but as a kind word of support and it was greatly appreciated. I hope my post didn’t sound like I did.

“It just goes to show, you never know. They are animals after all.”

Indeed. Kudos on the bravery to have a Jack Russel Terror dog ;)


131 posted on 03/31/2012 5:49:10 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: DefeatCorruption
Buzz of this thread, or suffer a day off without posting...

Admin Mod

132 posted on 03/31/2012 6:22:56 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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Comment #133 Removed by Moderator

Comment #134 Removed by Moderator

To: HairOfTheDog

I really appreciated reading your posts..


135 posted on 03/31/2012 7:33:37 PM PDT by MEG33 (O Lord, Guide Our Nation)
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To: Shannon

I just sent you a private message, but it didn’t go through for some reason.


136 posted on 03/31/2012 7:45:53 PM PDT by DefeatCorruption
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To: pops88
I am relieved to hear you have a little reprieve from the frantic time frame you had initially been given. That kind of thing is also from the Lord. We think our choices are A, B or C and he says here's Z! I know you are STILL concerned about Aldawin’s ultimate destination, but, hopefully, he may be able to stay with your family after all. I know this would be the ideal for you because you love him so much and he obviously loves you too. I'll be praying for the best result - one that you AND Aldawin can live with.
137 posted on 03/31/2012 11:10:49 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Shannon

>> the virtues of shocking and/or choking the air out of a dog

There’s no single method for discipline and control.


138 posted on 03/31/2012 11:11:10 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Newt/Sarah 2012)
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To: pops88

My daughter doesn’t want a new dog until her older GSD passes away. She doesn’t feel it would be fair to her current GSD.

I talked to my friend in Airedale Rescue (located in Nevada) and she told me that German Shephard Rescue in Nevada and elsewhere is already aware of this dog and trying to figure out what can be done.


139 posted on 04/01/2012 1:10:27 AM PDT by airedale
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To: boatbums

“I’ll be praying for the best result - one that you AND Aldawin can live with.”

I can’t tell you how much I appreciate that. I had to give my daughter a faith pep-talk tonight that God wouldn’t impress us to get a dog then turn around and cruelly wrench him from us, because He’s carved us on the palm of His hand and knows we will sacrifice whatever He asks for, We’ve proven in the past what we’ll sacrifice for Him, so He can certainly find our dog the perfect home. She wasn’t too happy with the “maybe” reprieve on the time limit either. She’s had to flee a foreign country once in her life and was also, like myself, packed in a few hours. Neither of us were prepared for, or want, backpedaling. We committed ourselves 100% to the time frame for the move after being “asked.” It would be much harder for us to be in limbo with a “maybe” time of a few months.


140 posted on 04/01/2012 1:54:55 AM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: pops88

I’ve been reading the thread..Prayers for you and your daughter that all works out for the good..
I am thankful that most of the posts were supportive and helpful..
One jerk can’t spoil all the good will and understanding.


141 posted on 04/01/2012 2:40:07 AM PDT by MEG33 (O Lord, Guide Our Nation)
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To: MEG33

Thank you. The love, goodwill, help and support here has exponentially out weighed the negatives. I’ve been a panicked, blithering idiot. Freepers have been above and beyond with their helpfulness, and I know one Freeper gets credit for keeping me from going off the deep end (you know who you are ;). {{{Hugs}}}


142 posted on 04/01/2012 2:55:39 AM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: pops88

I wouuld have been panicked, too!
Yes..FReepers can be wonderful sources for help, information and prayers.


143 posted on 04/01/2012 3:43:47 AM PDT by MEG33 (O Lord, Guide Our Nation)
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To: pops88
Like Meg, I've been keeping up with this thread for a couple of days. I have to suggestions to offer just good wishes.

I know how hard it is to have a difficult situation with a pet as I have a cat ( my college aged son found her) that doesn't get along with any other animals. She is not as extreme as your situation but we've had to make special accommodations to keep her separate from the others or she would attack them.

Life would be easier w/o all this fuss but what are ya gonna do, eh? :)

Sending prayers that things work out for you in the best possible way.

144 posted on 04/01/2012 1:56:54 PM PDT by CAluvdubya
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To: pops88
I have to suggestions to offer just good wishes.

Oops...should have been "no" suggestions to offer.

145 posted on 04/01/2012 1:58:45 PM PDT by CAluvdubya
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To: pops88
Is there any news about Aldawin?

Hope there will be a good update soon.

146 posted on 04/01/2012 3:49:50 PM PDT by LADY J (You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. - Author Unknown)
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To: LADY J

No news yet. Still working on it. He’s a pretty happy dog at the moment because mom’s really been spoiling him. He’ll be especially happy at dinner when he gets some left-over people food (pork) which he normally wouldn’t. I run a tight ship ;)


147 posted on 04/01/2012 3:56:02 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: Shannon

Shannon -

I will respond even though you won’t reply. I am aware of the positive reinforcement/dominance war, and know you are probably pretty set on positive reinforcement. I’d just ask you keep an open mind, in the event you get a case where PR doesn’t work so well.

First, I don’t choke unconscious or cut off air, that was Pops. Personally, I did’t care for the sound of it when I first read about it, nor would it have worked on the two I wrote about, who almost choked themselves unconscious trying to get at each other - it had no effect.

On the shock collar, prior to these dogs, I never disciplined my dogs. I literally had some dogs who wouldn’t sit, wouldn’t down, and they came when they wanted, and I was happy with that. I was a spoiler, and I didn’t like the thought of making the dogs do anything. I wanted my dogs happy above all else, and thought that was how to do it.

I got one dog, like the two, who had already been trained, and he was perfect, in every way. I suspect it was because I got him as an adult, and the new pack effect made him instinctually submissive, but maybe he was special.

The two I got to replace him after he passed were adorable puppies, but they came to think they did what they wanted, and they were a lot different from my other dogs psychologically, as they matured. For the record, I was irresponsible and ignorant, as many warned of the dangers of their breed, but I had gotten a great one, how bad could they be?

The bottom line was, I tried everything to stop the fighting, and my choice became to go the collar route, or get rid of one, which would have left it traumatized. I did the collar, and I am pretty sure they would have said it was the best option, if they could talk.

Correcting eventually became a once every five or six month thing, and only if a fight was becoming likely. I never saw any effect on temperment or fearfulness, but I was clear when they would get corrected, so they were never confused. They realized quickly, don’t fight and come when called, and there would be no shock. As a result, they would consciously relax to avoid the shock. As a bonus, I got them off leash absent any risk of their bolting - something I never knew was so important to a dog.

Some dogs are instinctually designed to be aggressive, and to become more so as they get aggressive. You need to see it to understand it and you won’t in 99% of dogs. You can’t easily condition your desired behavior into them, more than their genes condition them to try to be pack leader, drive away competition, or just compete to the death to see who is more fit to sire the pack’s next litter. Some things are so ingrained in some dogs that you need some extreme conditioning to make it work.

As an example, you can’t walk between two wolves about to fight over a dead elk, break out a bag of treats and a clicker, and end up with two wolves peacfully sharing the carcass. I know I could get two wolves prone to fight to share a carcass with two shock collars though, based on my experiences.

Likewise, could you condition a grown wolf-dog with PR to reliably hang with a rabbit, and not hurt it, even if the rabbit ran away fast? Some things are deeply ingrained, and if you’re going to put a pathway in the amygdala which will block a behavior, you need it to be a strong one which can shut off the pathway in teh amygdala driving the behavior.

Just to make the point, stop by Amazon, google, or anywhere else, and check the reviews for all of their electric collars, especially the extra strong one I cited. they’re filled with people who had dogs they thought were untrainable, and who now can’t help but rave at how happy their dogs are, off leash, and well-behaved. If this is a bad form of training, shouldn’t most (or even some?) of them be from horrified dog owners, who found the collar irreparably traumatized their dogs?

I know if those collars left my dogs shattered wrecks, I would have complained everywhere, warning everyone. Clearly, those who use them find they aren’t that bad. And yes, I shocked myself with them repeatedly before using them on my dogs. It is painful, but if I could take it willingly for loving my dogs, my dogs could take it to prevent themselves from being hurt in a fight.

I’m only saying this to you, in the event you someday come across a dog you can’t condition with positive reinforcement. Don’t write him off, and don’t avoid the collar to help the dog. There is a whole lot that can be worse than the little transient burn of the collar.

I do know those collars saved two of my dogs, when nothing else would have, and they ended up even happier and more well adjusted than the many dogs I spoiled, but kept on-leash before them. Now, I would make sure any dog I got was trained to come and down with them, and wore them always, just so he could go off leash.

Finally, you are right about how Pops shouldn’t be using the shock collar. I hadn’t seen how the dog had been trained to that point when I recommended it. No wonder he freaks, and begs to be locked up when someone new comes to the house.

For the record, I have no relation to the company which makes them, their sale or marketing, nor do I benefit from any sales in any way. I wasn’t pimping for profit, just pointing out to freepers a product which altered two of my pet’s lives for the better, immeasurably.

Peace.


148 posted on 04/01/2012 4:30:40 PM PDT by AnonymousConservative (Why did Liberals evolve within our species? www.anonymousconservative.com)
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To: AnonymousConservative
Well here I am, responding. When I clicked on FR and saw I had a comment I decided to reply after all. Reading comments about dogs being shocked & choked makes me physically ill.

Today I've thought about this dog, a lot. I feel very bad for the dog. I have no way of knowing if he's got a screw loose or has been mishandled / trained incorrectly or what. All I do know from reading the poster's comments about the dog, is that something is terribly wrong.

Someone can't even come into the home without the dog being put up and he barks the whole time. Even when the phone rings he goes off. The use of the collar designed to choke the air right out of him certainly hasn't produced anything that I would call a good result other than it's stopped him from killing. Good grief!

Adopting out a dog like this presents a HUGE liability. What if he maims or kills someone? I can guarantee you should something like that happen, a lawsuit will follow. That means depositions. When it's disclosed that the previous owner made on-line posts (right here on FR) about the dog's instability, even mentioning "He’s been near unconsciousness a couple times when he wanted to kill something." OMG!! The poster's "LOL" preceding that statement, not to mention other things written, will be a prosecuting atty's dream come true.

I saw that HairOfTheDog recommended euthanasia. I agree with him. This dog is too unstable, can not be trusted and is a liability to people. Sorry but people come first. Plus, it sure beats this dog being further mistreated. He's already endured years of a "dominant dog collar" designed to choke the air right out of him. What's the next person going to do to him? It's time to end it before someone is killed.


149 posted on 04/01/2012 5:22:22 PM PDT by Shannon
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To: AnonymousConservative

“Finally, you are right about how Pops shouldn’t be using the shock collar. I hadn’t seen how the dog had been trained to that point when I recommended it. No wonder he freaks, and begs to be locked up when someone new comes to the house.”

Excuse me? What are you saying? My dog was pretty much trained by the book. Should he not have developed a fear of other dogs after he was attacked as a puppy after the dog’s owner assured me their dog wouldn’t hurt mine? I actively worked to correct that issue without success. Fear can be an extremely hard thing to overcome. I’ve done psychiatric nursing so don’t tell me otherwise. I’m not going to get into the socialization issue with people because it would take too long to relate the lengths I went to. I spent hours on the Leerburg.com site when my dog was a puppy and my daughter and I watched “It’s Me or the Dog” nightly. I’ve had many dogs I’ve trained in my life time (I’m over 50), I’ve been to obedience classes and worked one-on-one with a professional before. In college, I was a nanny for a man that had a dog from the New Skete monks and I have read their book, along with several other dog training books from highly respected professionals, not just Joe Blow. Please don’t imply I don’t know how to train a dog. I know what my dog needs, but up until just recently I haven’t had the money, and I’m smart enough to know that I’m not a professional and try it. Slamming me is rich after you publicly admitted to spoiling your own dog and creating a behavioral problem. I didn’t create my dog’s temperament, and after so many years working with newborns, I know they all have a discernible personality at birth. So do dogs. If a dog is born with a timid, fearful personality it is a challenge to overcome and many consider a dog like that to have an unsound temperament. I’ve been at least willing to work with my dog as much as possible. And I’d like to reiterate- the dominant dog caller is NOT for training. It’s solely for getting the upper hand in an emergency situation with a dog’s kill instinct in full blown mode.


150 posted on 04/01/2012 5:40:25 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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