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If George Zimmerman Loses a Pretrial Motion to Dismiss, He Can Still Be Acquitted
Reason Magazine ^ | April 12, 2012 | Jacob Sullum

Posted on 04/12/2012 9:52:21 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

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1 posted on 04/12/2012 9:52:30 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

No way will a Sanford judge rule to acquit...that judge would be the next person lynched.

First he needs to get the trial moved out that area and then he may have a chance.


2 posted on 04/12/2012 9:55:29 AM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The analysis is wrong on the point of the effect of a successful self defense claim if there is a trial. Self defense = acquittal, innocent. It does not serve to reduce murder to manslaughter.
3 posted on 04/12/2012 9:59:38 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I highly doubt he will be convicted of second degree murder. If his lawyers are any good, however, they will try to move the case out of Sanford.


4 posted on 04/12/2012 10:01:09 AM PDT by abercrombie_guy_38
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The analysis is wrong on the point of the effect of a successful self defense claim if there is a trial. Self defense = acquittal, innocent. It does not serve to reduce murder to manslaughter.

Oops, I see he gets to that point.

Uses the wrong standard of proof though. At trial, the state must prove (the burden at trial goes to the state) that Zimmerman did NOT act in self defense. At trial, the presumptions run strongly in Zimmerman's favor - more strongly that at the pretrial hearing.

5 posted on 04/12/2012 10:02:13 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Those in charge in Tallahassee have decided,rightly or wrongly,that the only important issue here is to avoid Rodney King II.As a result a trial *will* take place and every effort will be made to get a conviction.The only thing that can save Zimmerman,in state *and* Federal court,is at least one juror in each trial he’s subjected to.


6 posted on 04/12/2012 10:03:50 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Jimmy Carter Is No Longer The Worst President To Have Served In My Lifetime.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Move the case to Los Angeles!


7 posted on 04/12/2012 10:03:50 AM PDT by FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; calcowgirl; Gilbo_3; ...

Once the procecution lays out their case we will have an idea on if this is just political or if there is a real case to be made against Zimmermann.

I decided long ago not to jump to conclusions about that aspect even though A Sharpton and Jesse make it look like another hoax, Hoax/scams are their trademark.


8 posted on 04/12/2012 10:04:13 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : "I will just make insurance companies give you health care for 'free, What Mandates??' ")
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To: abercrombie_guy_38
I highly doubt he will be convicted of second degree murder. If his lawyers are any good, however, they will try to move the case out of Sanford.

Yeah, to a cold climate area.
9 posted on 04/12/2012 10:12:45 AM PDT by crosshairs (As long as there is evil, "Coexist" is impossible.)
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To: for-q-clinton

Don’t bring it to Tallahassee. I don’t want that crap here. Let Miami have it.


10 posted on 04/12/2012 10:18:51 AM PDT by goseminoles
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

reason to believe not in self-defense = indictment
preponderance of evidence was in self defense = dismiss
beyond a reasonable doubt was in self defense = acquit

The first standard is barely anything, hence, a good district attorney can indict a ham sandwich.

The second standard is what the police used in deciding, on the spot, not to arrest. If there is no evidence beyond what the police had, a motion to dismiss is in order.

The third standard is a tough one, and rightfully so. Even if a court does not dismiss, it cannot be presumed that the accused will be found guilty.

And, yes, I too am wondering where the element of depravity and disregard for human life came in. Maybe the special prosecutor has a thing about ham sandwiches.


11 posted on 04/12/2012 10:20:39 AM PDT by Redmen4ever
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I suspect the state is counting on the mob intimidating the judge sufficiently that the pre-trial motion will fail. Venue arguments are going be really interesting here. Time to dig out the litigation history on the Sam Sheppard case.


12 posted on 04/12/2012 10:25:40 AM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; JulieRNR21; kinganamort; katherineisgreat; floriduh voter; summer; ...
Now that Zimmerman has been officially charged, the wheels of widespread social unrest are once again set in motion.

All things considered, it is quite possible that Zimmerman will be found not guilty. When that happens, having personally experienced the riots in SF and Oakland after the Rodney King case back in April of 1992, I fully expect "Holder's People" to do what they have always done when their collective rage is not placated.

They will go berserk.

Florida Freeper


13 posted on 04/12/2012 10:26:01 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: for-q-clinton
Question: Are the actual residents of Sanford, from whom a jury pool would be drawn, more or less likely to protect one of "their own". Zimmerman fits that classification. The young fellow he shot was visiting the area and by Zimmerman's account (he is the only surviving eye witness and seems to be backed up by the 911 call records) appeared to be casing houses. Where else would he get a fairer hearing than among the people who might know him and whose homes he ostensibly was trying to protect? The protesting mobs are going to show up and cause disturbance wherever any trial is held. The people of Sanford may be more willing to give those protesters the finger. I don't know enough about the area to judge.
14 posted on 04/12/2012 10:27:23 AM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

the judge could also reserve ruling and allow the case to go to trial. Reject the motion and the motion reconsidered on appeal.

This step is really about preservation for appeal.


15 posted on 04/12/2012 10:30:20 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Redmen4ever
beyond a reasonable doubt was in self defense = acquit

Wrong! It is not the obligation of the defense to prove anything. It is the obligation of the prosectution to prove it was a crime "beyond a reasonable doubt". The prosecution only needs to show reasonable doubt, that it might have been self defense.

16 posted on 04/12/2012 10:30:32 AM PDT by Hugin ("Most time a man'll tell you his bad intentions if you listen and let yourself hear"--Open Range)
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To: Hugin

Self correction” I meant to say “The defense only needs to show reasonable doubt, that it might have been self defense”.


17 posted on 04/12/2012 10:33:16 AM PDT by Hugin ("Most time a man'll tell you his bad intentions if you listen and let yourself hear"--Open Range)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Mr Zimmerman is caught. The AG hasn’t ruled on this yet. I doubt he will get out jail except one way.


18 posted on 04/12/2012 10:40:52 AM PDT by winkadink (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell)
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To: Hugin
The defense only needs to show reasonable doubt, that it might have been self defense

Better punctuation to express your meaning:

The defense only needs to show reasonable doubt—that it might have been self defense.

19 posted on 04/12/2012 10:58:47 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (I tried to buy a hoodie today but the store manager said they had all been shoplifted.)
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To: katana
The people of Sanford may be more willing to give those protesters the finger.

It's worth noting that Martin was killed in an event that occurred a full three weeks (Feb 26) before it became a national news story.

Further, the event was fully reported in the local media the very next day -- by Orlando TV stations and the newspaper.

And nothing happened. No outrage, no marches, no protests.

It's also worth noting that all of the local news stories led with the eyewitness account which described Zimmerman as being on the ground having the crap beaten out of him, while screaming for help.

Recall that it took days for this eyewitness to emerge in the national stories.

Will any local jurors allow the initial absence of outrage to impact their judgment? I don't know.

But it should...

20 posted on 04/12/2012 11:05:21 AM PDT by okie01
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