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Dad rescues ‘brain dead’ son from doctors wishing to harvest his organs...
LifeSite News ^ | April 25, 2012 | Matthew Cullinan Hoffman

Posted on 04/26/2012 6:52:49 AM PDT by SumProVita

...boy recovers completely

Although a team of four physicians insisted that his son was “brain-dead” following the wreck, Thorpe’s father enlisted the help of a general practitioner and a neurologist, who demonstrated that his son still had brain wave activity. The doctors agreed to bring him out of the coma, and five weeks later Thorpe left the hospital, having almost completely recovered.

(Excerpt) Read more at lifesitenews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bioethics; braindead; brainwaveactivity; brainwaves; coma; england; life; livingwill; medicine; moralabsolutes; organdonation; organharvesting; organtransplants; prolife; transplantation; willtolive
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To: SumProVita
This is why we're not organ donors. I don't want them rushing my death to get what they want, nor do I want them dismembering a member of my family while they're still alive.
51 posted on 04/26/2012 3:59:06 PM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: SumProVita
(http://www.nrlc.org/euthanasia/willtolive/StatesList.html)

The Will to Live Project (download Your states Will to Live Document)

52 posted on 04/26/2012 4:18:18 PM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: SumProVita; All; wagglebee; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Coleus; Salvation; little jeremiah; narses; ..

“Thorpe’s father enlisted the help of a general practitioner and a neurologist, who demonstrated that his son still had brain wave activity. ..”

We should all keep this in mind, so we know what to do if it happens to someone we know.


53 posted on 04/26/2012 5:36:34 PM PDT by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: wagglebee; little jeremiah; Salvation; NYer; narses; JulieRNR21; metmom; wintertime

Triumph of Life ping. I wish there was more good news of this nature.


54 posted on 04/26/2012 6:16:23 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (A liberal's compassion is limited to the size of other peoples' paychecks)
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To: SumProVita

When/IF they ever learn to fear God ...


55 posted on 04/26/2012 6:22:12 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: goat granny

Sounds like an allergy to corn and corn products.


56 posted on 04/26/2012 6:27:21 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: stuartcr
What if He wants you to have an organ donated from someone?

God wills whatsoever comes to pass, put Bustard's lack of consent is pretty good assurance that God does not want him to have a donated organ.

I share Bustard's sentiments and I resent being compelled to support a insurance/medical system that redistributes wealth in all sorts of perverse ways.

57 posted on 04/26/2012 6:27:28 PM PDT by Theophilus (Not merely prolife, but prolific)
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To: ArrogantBustard

For an AB you sound pretty humble.


58 posted on 04/26/2012 7:23:38 PM PDT by Bellflower (The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)
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To: cork
I worked in hospital for 10 years and I found just the opposite...most doctors are good, some are great and a few are asshole..

No judging from a personal level only but on their patient care in the hospital. I put my whole family including my father for cardiac care from doctors at the hospital I worked at...For dad I got him into the department head of cardiology for his multiply heart problems...In fact the cardiologist took blood samples in the office and found his blood chem was way off...he put him in the hospital and he was finally diagnosed with colon cancer but refused surgery from the surgeon he was assigned...I breathed a sigh of relief cause the surgeon was not the best. Quite a few of his patients seems to always have wound infections. Some of the doctors are really artists at medicine because it is part art as well as a science..

He went to another surgeon that he liked, but in the 2 weeks from one hospital to the other, he had developed acute leukemia, which they found in preop blood work up which was hinky and it took almost a week to find exactly what the problem was...He passed on in my house 4 days out of the hospital....prognosis without chemo was 10 days to 6 weeks....he went 10 days before he passed on

59 posted on 04/26/2012 8:20:15 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: Psalm 144

(You probably know, of course); that, you don’t have to wait for renewal- you can turn in your license and get a new one, anytime.


60 posted on 04/26/2012 9:16:48 PM PDT by cricket ( It is not just 'the economy' and Newt knows it. . .)
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To: stuartcr
What if He wants you to have an organ donated from someone?

What if He wants you to stop posting absurd questions?

61 posted on 04/26/2012 10:12:13 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: stuartcr
What if He wants you to have an organ donated from someone?

Hath God said........

Let it go, arrogant doesn’t need your help.

62 posted on 04/27/2012 12:53:31 AM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: ziravan

You do know that the donatee can’t be physically dead to harvest organs, right? That the organs permanently degrade within seconds of the heart stopping. That’s why they take the heart out last. I had all this explained to me by a transplant doctor over dinner at his sister’s house. He was all for organ donation, it kept him in work, but he was brutally honest about how the organs are removed from still breathing people.


63 posted on 04/27/2012 5:20:42 AM PDT by Vor Lady (Everyone should read The Importance of the Electoral College by Geo. Grant)
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To: goat granny

“Brain...damn near useless...”

I can SOOOO relate to that one!

ha ha ha ha ha

Thanks for today’s laugh!


64 posted on 04/27/2012 6:01:44 AM PDT by a real Sheila ("Vado a bordo, cazzo!")
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To: goat granny

I WISH they’d come up with a way to harvest and use excessive abdominal fat and skin, giving the donor a free tummy tuck in the process! I’d sign up today to be a donor!


65 posted on 04/27/2012 6:03:19 AM PDT by a real Sheila ("Vado a bordo, cazzo!")
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To: goat granny

I WISH they’d come up with a way to harvest and use excessive abdominal fat and skin, giving the donor a free tummy tuck in the process! I’d sign up today to be a donor!


66 posted on 04/27/2012 6:05:14 AM PDT by a real Sheila ("Vado a bordo, cazzo!")
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To: Vor Lady

These “still breathing people” are having their lungs inflated by the ventilator.

Part of the process of determining brain death is removing the ventilator to search for the gasp reflex...does the person’s brain have any ability to initiate breath.

This is one of many reflexes that are tested for - on top of brainwave tests and blood flow images.

I think that describing them as “still breathing” is misleading.


67 posted on 04/27/2012 6:10:41 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: ziravan; Vor Lady
You do know that the donatee can’t be physically dead to harvest organs, right? That the organs permanently degrade within seconds of the heart stopping. That’s why they take the heart out last. I had all this explained to me by a transplant doctor over dinner at his sister’s house. He was all for organ donation, it kept him in work, but he was brutally honest about how the organs are removed from still breathing people.

Did this doctor also “explain” to you that a truly brain dead person cannot possible breath on their own? Once brain death occurs, often well before in traumatic brain injury cases; the person is breathing only through artificial respiration and their heart beating only through artificial means? The reason for keeping a brain dead person on artificial respiration and keeping their heart functioning through artificial means, after several doctors have declared the person dead for all intense purposes, is in case there is a living will or other legal designation that states the person is an organ doner and or gives the family some time to consider organ donation.

I have designated myself as an organ donor and I have absolutely no fear what so ever that my organs will be “harvested” from me while I’m still functionally alive with any hope of recovery. And ziravan eloquently pointed out why organ donation is a good thing to do and what safe guards are in place to safe guard that those are merely unconscious or truly comatose and not brain dead are not harvested for their organs.

If I’m ever declared brain dead or with a brain with all the functionality and cognitive ability of a baked potato, I’d much rather be removed from artificial life support after having my organs and tissues go to someone in need as I have really no need for them anymore. I have no desire to have my dead brain and merely my body kept alive through artificial means to no other end other than just to keep my body, an empty shell of the person I was once was while “alive”, kept “alive” for or an undetermined time, weeks, moths, years, with great expense to my estate, and to my living heirs and for no good purpose.

68 posted on 04/27/2012 6:13:31 AM PDT by MD Expat in PA
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To: STD
"If I told you how many times I’ve seen old people with no family present at bedside who were operated upon purely for profit you would swear of physicians and change your diet, lose weight and get with the program."

This.

And I got with the program in '09, after reading Dr. Oz's "You: Staying Young" and "You: The Owner's Manual".

69 posted on 04/27/2012 6:34:05 AM PDT by StAnDeliver (=)
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To: Will88

like Obamacare’s “duty to die”?


70 posted on 04/27/2012 6:36:18 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Sun

Also keep in mind that you should get a neurologist immediately in an emergency. Don’t let your loved one wait all night or all weekend in an emergency room after a brain injury.


71 posted on 04/27/2012 6:49:32 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: Theophilus

Good for you.


72 posted on 04/27/2012 6:56:40 AM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: DBeers

Then I guess it would happen. Right?


73 posted on 04/27/2012 6:58:52 AM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: itsahoot

I’m sure he doesn’t, but conversation with him is enjoyable and I like his comments.


74 posted on 04/27/2012 7:04:34 AM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: Scotswife
I think that describing them as “still breathing” is misleading.

That was his description. We also discussed the movie Coma at that dinner, a true follow the money moment.

75 posted on 04/27/2012 7:09:02 AM PDT by Vor Lady (Everyone should read The Importance of the Electoral College by Geo. Grant)
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To: Vor Lady

to be “still breathing” on you own is - by definition - to not be brain dead.

You cannot be declared brain dead while you are “still breathing”

coma and brain death are two completely different animals.


76 posted on 04/27/2012 7:43:53 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: MD Expat in PA
Did this doctor also “explain” to you that a truly brain dead person cannot possible breath on their own?

If a person shows up in the ER truly brain dead and not breathing on their own then their organs will not be usable. If they are put on life support before they are truly brain dead we are back to the original question.

We humans are not as smart as we think we are. Here is a link proving why we shouldn't jump to conclusions, even educated ones: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/magazine/can-ambien-wake-minimally-conscious.html?pagewanted=all

with great expense to my estate, and to my living heirs and for no good purpose.

I guess it depends on who decides what a good purpose is.

77 posted on 04/27/2012 7:46:54 AM PDT by Vor Lady (Everyone should read The Importance of the Electoral College by Geo. Grant)
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To: Vor Lady

My daughter showed up to the ER “not brain dead”.

Why?
Her pupils were still reactive to light.
Her urine output was normal.
Certain reflexes were still there.

She had been receiving CPR from a good samaritan at our accident scene.
Emergency responders continued artificial respiration for her during her ambulance trip.
Upon arrival at the ER she was placed on the ventilator.

She was transferred to another hospital where a team of doctors evaluated her brain function everyday.
After five days her brain began to lose more function.
Her pupils stopped reacting.
Her urine output increased.
More tests were conducted concerning blood flow and brainwave function.
Her internal organs began to shut down.
The ventilator was shut off to check for the gasp reflex.
They did an inner ear test to check for reflex.
Three doctors went through the brain death protocol checklist and confirmed she met all the criteria (you can google the protocol)

From the moment of our accident until the moment her heart was harvested to save the life of a 2 yr. old girl, my daughter was not “still breathing”. She was not drawing her own breath.

Thirteen years later her heart still beats.


78 posted on 04/27/2012 7:55:39 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife
Karen Anne Quinlan was on life support. She was declared brain dead, they pulled her off the ventilator and viola`, she kept breathing. We are not as smart and all knowing as we think we are.

I find it interesting that before organ transplants people were only in comas and no one was looking to take their organs. Now transplants are big business and more people end up declared brain dead.

79 posted on 04/27/2012 8:01:41 AM PDT by Vor Lady (Everyone should read The Importance of the Electoral College by Geo. Grant)
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To: Vor Lady

Karen Quinlan was diagnosed as pvs.
We have learned that pvs can be misdiagnosed in as many as 40% of cases.

She was not declared brain dead.

You are confusing coma and brain death as well as smearing the people who are working these cases.


80 posted on 04/27/2012 8:10:45 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: ziravan

This wiki entry on brain death is interesting and discusses the differences between UK and US.

They don’t rely on flat EEG in the UK - which is exactly what the father of this boy requested.
So...according to the US standards, this boy never was “brain dead”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_death


81 posted on 04/27/2012 9:20:11 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: cork

They did the same thing when my 4 year-old daughter was dying. At the time, they came across so sweetly kind and caring - I was almost beguiled by it due to the grief. Two full days while she was on life support, they came by every few hours to check on me and ‘see how I was holding up’, then got into their pitch again.

It ended up being irrelevant anyway, as a full autopsy was required. They couldn’t harvest anything from her, but having to choose burial clothing that hid all the incisions from the autopsy was equally damaging to me.


82 posted on 04/27/2012 9:42:12 AM PDT by ItsOurTimeNow (Can't afford a ticket back from Suffragette City)
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To: ItsOurTimeNow

what state are you from?

I do think it differs state to state as to how this is handled.

My daughter was 2 months shy of her 4th birthday.

No one put any pressure on us...for one thing, the team of doctors had nothing to do with the donation group.

Once our daughter was declared legally dead, the doctor informed us that there was no legal obligation on their part to keep her on the ventilator.

They were kind and told us we could spend the evening with her to say goodbye, and to let them know when we were ready.

We were the ones who brought up the subject of donation.
At that point we realized there were two choices....sit with her and hold her while the ventilator was shut off, or pursue the donation route.

Once we made that choice, a phone call was placed and it was only then that the donation organization even knew we even existed.

If we had ever felt someone was watching over us like vultures to pressure us - I’m sure our decision would have been much different.

I am very sorry for your loss.


83 posted on 04/27/2012 9:50:18 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: ArrogantBustard

I write on the back of my driver’s license, “Not an organ donor.”

I have a huge moral issue with a sick person actively hoping that someone who is alive and healthy right now will die so that they can get their organs. Because, essentially, anyone on an organ waiting list is doing just that.


84 posted on 04/27/2012 4:06:09 PM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: Scotswife
Its good to know her death helped save a life...My husband died in the back yard....I did CPR on him until the ambulance came, living in the country that took a while. When we got to the hospital they tried to revive him for over 1/2 hour. He had always said he would like to be a donor, so I discussed with the doctor that gave us the news that he was dead what could be done...Nothing except skin could be donated, it had been too long since his heart stopped and any organs were useless for donation...He was only 51 at the time, no history of heart problems, it was his one and only heart attack...

Organs must be donated from a living body, the organs are useless if time has lapsed between death and harvest...

But as I said earlier, I'm using up mine.....

85 posted on 04/27/2012 4:17:29 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: SumProVita
Coma

Still relevant, maybe more so.

86 posted on 04/27/2012 4:22:54 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Scotswife
Once we made that choice, a phone call was placed and it was only then that the donation organization even knew we even existed.

Until a few months ago, I worked at a hospital in Texas. One of the items on the death checklist there was notification of the organ donor registry, whether or not the dead/dying patient was a potential donor. I read the hospital's entire organ donation protocol... I can't say it reassured me at all regarding the whole topic of organ donation, and I am still as against the practice as ever.

If I were so sick that my physicians were suggesting putting me on an organ waiting list, I would decline. I cannot, in good conscience, hope and pray for a healthy someone to die so that I get a few years' extension on my life.

87 posted on 04/27/2012 4:22:54 PM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: goat granny

what a terrible thing for you to go through.

Yes...it is under rare circumstances that the organs are of use...and even then it is often difficult to find a proper match.
While they found a match for my daughter’s heart, her kidneys, lungs, and liver were not donated.


88 posted on 04/27/2012 4:24:04 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: a real Sheila

:O) I’d be at the hospital tomorrow if that was possible....


89 posted on 04/27/2012 4:25:02 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: exDemMom

My only experience with this was NY State.

No one approached us about it & no one pressured us.

If someone had, I do think that would have made us uncomfortable.

A year later we were invited to participate in a roundtable discussion with the donation group.
They were interested in hearing the reasons why we made the choice we made, and how did we think they could encourage donation.

My suggestion was that less pressure was better. To offer information when it was requested but not to give a sales pitch.
And when people do not choose donation, they should not have to cope with a guilt trip.

My cousin is a donor recipient, and we also experienced this process as parents of a donor.

I can see why people might think someone is hoping and praying for someone else to die.
I’m not sure if that is a fair characterization.
Maybe some people are....who knows.

I would described it more as....we all know that everyday people will die from a wide variety of causes.
If circumstances line up where some good can be brought about from a tragedy....then you may as well be on the list.


90 posted on 04/27/2012 4:34:27 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife
From the moment of our accident until the moment her heart was harvested to save the life of a 2 yr. old girl, my daughter was not “still breathing”. She was not drawing her own breath.

Thirteen years later her heart still beats.

Thank you for sharing your and your daughter’s story. Out of such a terrible tragedy, something good came from it; what a blessing for you and your family and to that little child and her family and that’s why I am an organ donor.

While I think it is very important to protect the right to life, I get angry when some people dismiss organ donation out the unfounded and irrational fears that they will have their organs ripped from their still living and breathing bodies for fun and or profit. I also think it’s wrong to paint the entire medical profession as ghoulish profit driven monsters. That was not my experience as was also so in your case.

In ’96 my mother was rushed to the hospital with what was at first thought to be a heart attack but was soon determined to be acute pancreatitis.

Within 36 hours of being admitted she had respiratory distress and was put on a ventilator. Then one by one her organs started failing.

The doctors and all the staff at Johns Hopkins were wonderful, caring, and compassionate and very dedicated to saving her life. But even with all means and brightest minds available to one of the best hospitals in the world, there was nothing that could be done for her. They never pressured us to remove her from life support but after they explained the toxins and acids from her pancreas had pretty much liquefied its self along with most of her other internal organs and that the toxins, after having gotten into her blood stream, was doing the same to her brain, we made the decision to remove her from life support.

Organ donation was of course out of the question. But the doctors did ask our consent for a full autopsy, not to determine the cause of death as that was already known but to perhaps find an underlying cause. They were very puzzled as to why a relatively healthy woman; someone with no signs of cancer, gall stones, no prior symptoms and someone who didn’t drink or smoke would have a pancreas that went so bad so quickly. They explained that it was our decision and they didn’t put any pressure on us but did explain that perhaps what they might learn from her case might help others. And so of course we consented. And I’m confident that my mother would have wanted this as well.

91 posted on 04/27/2012 4:55:48 PM PDT by MD Expat in PA
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To: exDemMom
If I were so sick that my physicians were suggesting putting me on an organ waiting list, I would decline. I cannot, in good conscience, hope and pray for a healthy someone to die so that I get a few years' extension on my life.

I tend to think that the vast majority of people on a waiting list for an organ transplant are very acutely aware of just how precious life is.

It’s not a matter of hoping and praying for someone else to die, but rather that sadly tragic accidents happen, and will happen whether or not the accident victim is an organ donor or not and whether or not anyone, including themselves is on an organ transplant waiting list. I think it’s more likely that a waiting recipient is hoping and praying that one of those who died, and would have died anyway, is an organ donor and a match for them.

I am friends with a gal whose husband needed and received a heart transplant. That was well over twenty years ago and he’s still doing fine.

92 posted on 04/27/2012 5:14:43 PM PDT by MD Expat in PA
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To: Sun

Patients are often overmedicated to give the appearance that there is “no hope”. Do not fall into the “no hope” trap. There’s big money in harvesting and the organs are free. So, it’s like indenturued servitude which is against the Thirteenth Amendmene to The Constitution if they can take your body parts.


93 posted on 04/27/2012 6:46:39 PM PDT by floriduh voter (I have no comment.)
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To: concerned about politics

FYI: If they don’t have a lot to choose from, they are rabid to get eyes. HCA Hospitals pick inopportune times to ask family members to get body parts. We have no hospitals in the land of Terri that I trust at all. Hope I stay well. lol


94 posted on 04/27/2012 6:48:33 PM PDT by floriduh voter (I have no comment.)
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To: Sun
Taking organs from a live human being is called stripping (no stripper pole required). It's grotesque and they are getting grabby about who's dead and who's no so much. Big money in transplant surgeries and all the PHARMA afterward for anti-rejection drugs.

It's about profit above all.

95 posted on 04/27/2012 6:51:26 PM PDT by floriduh voter (I have no comment.)
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To: MD Expat in PA

I’m sorry you and your mother went through that.

It’s an awful feeling for things to go so terribly wrong so quickly and you can’t do anything to stop it.

We were very fortunate to have an MD in the family, who came in and stood by us the whole time we had to make decisions.
So....important questions we never would have thought to ask - he asked them for us.
At the end - when the very crucial tests were being conducted - he was right there. Even though they didn’t have to allow him to observe, they understood that his reassurance was helping us.

The doctors I observed in this hospital were hardly a bunch of ghouls.


96 posted on 04/27/2012 9:11:38 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: floriduh voter

It’s sad what is going on and unlike this boy’s dad, some good-hearted loved ones might be too hasty in giving up. It makes me sick.


97 posted on 04/27/2012 9:27:24 PM PDT by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: BykrBayb; All

“Also keep in mind that you should get a neurologist immediately in an emergency. Don’t let your loved one wait all night or all weekend in an emergency room after a brain injury.”

Thanks for sharing that great advice!


98 posted on 04/27/2012 9:30:29 PM PDT by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: Popman
...but you were most likely billed for it and paid it in full I'll bet.

If you took your car to a mechanic, (I mean a really good one, that has been to car college and everything,) but after 2 weeks your car is still broken and he admits to you that he has no idea what is wrong with it and cant fix it for you......would you pay him?

....do you know what the call the guy who graduated last in his class at doctor school?

....now my blood pressure is up........

99 posted on 04/27/2012 9:41:54 PM PDT by Delta 21 (Oh Crap !! Did I say that out loud ??!??)
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To: ArrogantBustard
I will not sign up to be an organ "donor". I will not accept "donated" organs. "When God is done with me, here, He'll let me know. And I'm OK with that."

You may want to have DNR tattooed on your chest too.

100 posted on 04/27/2012 9:50:30 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Grammar & spelling maybe wrong, get over it, the world will not come to an end!)
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