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O’s ‘Real’ secret
NY Post ^ | June 21, 2012 | RICH LOWRY

Posted on 06/22/2012 11:39:41 AM PDT by neverdem

Pity lead House GOP investigator Rep. Darrell Issa of California. It’s his misfortune that he isn’t looking into matters about which the Obama administration can talk freely — namely, all its covert national-security programs.

If Justice Department documents that Issa's committee seeks from Attorney General Eric Holder had been the subject of a top-secret meeting in the White House Situation Room, their contents already would’ve been splashed across the media. Issa could read the A-1 New York Times story and be done with it.

But the Holder documents are an entirely different matter. They relate to the bizarrely misconceived Operation Fast and Furious, which allowed guns purchased from US shops to fall into the hands of Mexican drug gangs on the theory that . . . well, it's not clear exactly what the theory was. Somehow, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives thought that letting 2,000 guns “walk” into the arsenals of bad actors with no means of tracking them would be a devastating blow against gun-trafficking.

The cone of silence has slammed shut on the latest batch of Fast and Furious documents subpoenaed by Issa. When it’s a secret, high-tech program to disrupt Iran's nuclear program, administration officials are chatty and expansive; when it’s documents that could further embarrass Holder, their rule is “loose lips sink ships.” President Obama is making a dubious...

--snip--

From the start, Holder's Justice Department hasn't been able to keep its story straight on Fast and Furious, although it’s always insisted that top officials had no prior knowledge of it. In a February 2011 letter, it told Congress that the ATF made “every effort” to interdict the guns before they got into Mexico (wrong) and that it hadn't “‘sanctioned’ or otherwise knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons” to suspicious people (false)...

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Mexico; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2deadfeds; 300deadmexicans; atf; banglist; dea; dhs; doj; fastandfurious; fbi; gunrunner; gunwalker; holder; ice; murdergate; obama
IMHO, invoking executive privilege will take this tragic fiasco to court.

Hiding Behind Executive Privilege

It never madr any sense. It was just fast and stupid to placate the Brady Bunch for donations.

The NRA is already taking them to court for the ATF's directive requiring 8,000 southwest gun dealers to repost multiple sales of certain evil long guns after the ATF told the dealers to make the Fast and Furious sales after the dealers expressed their reservation to the ATF on their own initiative!!!

1 posted on 06/22/2012 11:39:48 AM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

If it is ever discovered with documented proof that F&F was a Democrat President’s plan and executed, full scale assault on the 2nd Amendment, there would never be another Democrat elected to the highest office in the land for a century.........................


2 posted on 06/22/2012 12:02:45 PM PDT by Red Badger (Think logically. Act normally.................)
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To: neverdem
The real secret is what Newsweak knows, that Bathhouse Barry actually *is* a down-low "bottom" bi-sexual:


3 posted on 06/22/2012 12:51:46 PM PDT by twister881
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To: neverdem

What we have here, is a nasty case of “nekkid imperor” syndrome.

The two possible ways to explain the F&F scheme are:
1) Criminal negligence resulting in multiple deaths (what Obama and Holder want us to believe); and,
2) Criminal conspiracy resulting in multiple deaths.

The resort to Executive Privilege as claimed here degrades the concept. This needs to go to court on a fast-track. If the truth can be forced into the open, we then need a Special Prosecutor to pursue criminal charges.


4 posted on 06/22/2012 12:52:38 PM PDT by Chewbarkah
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To: neverdem
..... Well ...... I think the fact that there was a briefing filmed by C-SPAN in March 2009 referring to the president ordering 37 additional agents into Mexico and naming "Project Gunrunner" by name kinda gives a reasonable starting point for the search for relevant documentary evidence into this investigation don't you think?
5 posted on 06/22/2012 1:11:11 PM PDT by R_Kangel ( "A Nation of Sheep ..... Will Beget ..... a Nation Ruled by Wolves.")
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To: neverdem
bizarrely misconceived Operation Fast and Furious,...

"bizarrely misconceived"? Far from it.

6 posted on 06/22/2012 1:13:57 PM PDT by houeto (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: neverdem

Fast and Furious was designed to create a Mexican Body Count with American guns, so that the Second Amendment could be destroyed here by 0bama.

That hypothesis fits all known facts.

It explains the Executive Priveledge claim too, because 0bama probably directed or approved the whole effort. Dead people. On purpose. In order to destroy the Bill of Rights. Think about it.

“Occam’s Razor” suggests that the simplest explanation that fits the facts is probably correct.


7 posted on 06/22/2012 1:18:43 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Nobody died at Watergate. Who were Brian Terry and Jamie Zapata? (Post this on Facebook, everyone!))
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To: Uncle Miltie

I believe that you have nailed it.


8 posted on 06/22/2012 1:21:21 PM PDT by WHBates
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To: Uncle Miltie

That’s the simplest explanation you can come up with?


9 posted on 06/22/2012 1:24:13 PM PDT by Fuzz
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To: Fuzz

Your turn!


10 posted on 06/22/2012 1:28:34 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Nobody died at Watergate. Who were Brian Terry and Jamie Zapata? (Post this on Facebook, everyone!))
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To: Uncle Miltie

Good hypothesis. My version of yours...

more guns in bad guys hands = more innocent dead or terrorized = more opportunity for gun control.


11 posted on 06/22/2012 1:56:09 PM PDT by An American! (Proud To Be An American!)
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To: wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; Jeff Head; ...
Can the Natural Gas Sector Save the US Economy? I don't know, but cheap energy will help it.

Victor Davis Hanson: Obama’s ‘They’-Did-It Campaign (Brace for an October Surprise.)

Michael Barone: Romney and the White Working-Class (Demographics can work both ways.)

Obama's White Support Is Too Low to Win

Some noteworthy articles about politics, foreign or military affairs, IMHO, FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

12 posted on 06/22/2012 1:56:24 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem
IMHO, invoking executive privilege will take this tragic fiasco to court.

It's almost like Issa ropa-doped Barry into this move.

13 posted on 06/22/2012 1:58:26 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye
Fast and Furious: Barack Obama’s Bloodiest Scandal and the Shameless Cover-Up [Hardcover]
Katie Pavlich (Author) Everyone must read this book!, April 5, 2012
By Aeronaut
This review is from: Fast and Furious: Barack Obama’s Bloodiest Scandal and the Shameless Cover-Up (Hardcover)
Everyone must read this book! It doesn’t matter if you are a Democrat or Republican, whether you believe in more or less gun control, or are conservative or liberal. Government scandals such as this must not be allowed, especially when they cost people their lives. Reading this book will cause you to experience a wide range of emotions. You feel sadness and frustration at the situation surrounding the death of Agent Brian Terry. This is followed by disbelief and outrage as the facts are presented regarding Operation Fast and Furious. Most shocking was seeing proof as to what the administration, at the highest levels, is doing for political purposes. It is frightening to realize, as the book points out, the incompetence, deceit and unlawful behavior with which the current DOJ and other government agencies operate and the great lengths they will go to cover it up. I was appalled to learn of their lack of concern for human lives. I had to ask myself while reading the book, “Could this really have happened?” But the facts and sources are thoroughly documented throughout the book to prove its validity. The introduction by an ATF Special Agent sets the tone for the book in a realistic manner. After finishing the “body” of the book, don’t put it down until you have looked at the appendices. There is a helpful timeline of events and further proof of the administration’s efforts to conceal the truth.
14 posted on 06/22/2012 2:07:37 PM PDT by Hojczyk
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To: Hojczyk
There is a bit of a story surrounding the murder of ICE Agent Jaime Zapata too.

ICE Agent Jaime Zapata was also killed with a gun from Project Gunrunner.

ICE agent's family files wrongful death claim against Justice Dept.

While the weapons found at the Zapata murder scene were not from among the Fast and Furious guns, this revelation is profoundly significant, because it directly contradicts sworn testimony by Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano.

“I have no information to that effect, no. I don’t know one way or the other,” she replied to a direct question on any Fast and Furious connection by Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas.

Word games. Here's the little trick Napolitano, Holder and ATF are playing. F&F was an ATF operation run out of the Tucson AZ office. But some guns were walked out of Texas gun shops which puts them in the jurisdiction of Texas ATF offices so those ops must have had other names. So far I have not seen any reporting on what those op names were.

Armored SUV could not protect U.S. agents in Mexico

U.S. investigators recovered one of the military-style semi-automatic weapons used in the attack that killed Zapata.

The gun came from Texas.

Ballistic testing of spent shell casings and the raising of an obliterated serial number revealed the weapon was a popular Romanian-made AK-47 knockoff purchased at J&J’s Pawn Shop in Beaumont, smuggled south to the Zetas by a methamphetamine trafficker named Manuel Gomez Barba, a U.S. citizen.

BP Agent Brian Terry was not the only Federal agent killed by guns allowed to walk by the ATF-DoJ.

ICE Agent Jaime Zapata and his partner, Victor Avila, were ambushed at a fake roadblock in Mexico. Were they set up? If so by whom?


15 posted on 06/22/2012 2:11:54 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

The lame stream media may still try to downplay any court case, but how can the Spanish speaking media keep a lid on it?


16 posted on 06/22/2012 2:15:21 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem
The media can ignore or downplay an ongoing court case but how do they do that when a court hands down a sanction or conviction or a demand for documents?

I actually hope the MSM keeps carrying 0boobie's water until it becomes crystal clear to the most brain dead zombie that they're corrupt and useless. They deserve to go down with him.

17 posted on 06/22/2012 2:23:19 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Hojczyk

Question - I’ve often heard that there were similar programs under the Bush Administration but it appears that no guns actually got to Mexico under those programs - perhaps they were effective/controlled programs to sting the buyers. Do you or anyone posting know if this is true?


18 posted on 06/22/2012 2:25:56 PM PDT by unique1
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To: TigersEye

“It’s almost like Issa ropa-doped Barry into this move.”

But Holder/Obama have controlled timing for the most part.

They have probably taken the F&F results to beyond election day (their objective).

Assuming the GOP holds the House, it could well be a repeat of Watergate and Monicagate, with Impeachment at stake (assuming Obama wins).

Assuming Romney wins, do the documents sought by Issa’s committee belong to the Justice Dept., or to Holder/Obama?

Would a new AJ be able to investigate F&F and indict Holder/Obama for crimes?


19 posted on 06/22/2012 2:28:41 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: truth_seeker
Would a new AJ be able to investigate F&F and indict Holder/Obama for crimes?

I think the answer to that is "absolutely" and if a court rejects the claim of Executive Privilege now or later then that cover is out the window. The real question is would Romney allow prosecutions under his administration. I'm not hopeful about that.

20 posted on 06/22/2012 2:40:22 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

“The real question is would Romney allow prosecutions under his administration. I’m not hopeful about that.”

If he did not, it would follow the pattern of new Potus shutting the door on the past.

If his main tasks are to improve our economy and keep us safe, it might be more wise to avoid the distraction.

Bush didn’t continue pursuit of Clinton and his cronnies.


21 posted on 06/22/2012 3:25:24 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: truth_seeker

I would see that as nothing more than a continuation of the corruption and a stamp of approval for it.


22 posted on 06/22/2012 3:32:04 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye
The real question is would Romney allow prosecutions under his administration. I'm not hopeful about that.

The elites play hugball among themselves and fob other people off with anything the elites think they'll believe.

When it was time to prosecute Slick, Dubya sent Rove out to hand us some bullshine about not wanting to let Slick upstage The President's agenda with a bunch of courtroom histrionics and sucking all the air out of the room, mediawise. (Oh, yeah --- can't let that precious "in" with Media go!)

23 posted on 06/22/2012 5:21:10 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: Uncle Miltie
Obama and Holder and (tons of our elected leaders) got caught because some undercover DEA agents got in a battle with some undercover FBI agents using guns that ATF agents forced gunshops owners to sell to undercover CIA agents who were 'gun mules', and 2 Border Patrol Agents got caught in the crossfire.

Arizona is the new 'corridor' for all illegal trafficking which will be controlled by (and provide funds to) our government, Mexico's government, organized crime (cartels), and a string of politicians willing to take bribes.

They even have signs up in Arizona declaring it the 'new corridor' and Warn US citizens to STAY OUT.

24 posted on 06/22/2012 5:28:27 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: twister881
The real secret is what Newsweak knows, that Bathhouse Barry actually *is* a down-low "bottom" bi-sexual:

What is the more significant fact is that so many in Media worship him for it and grovel before his perfumed-and-anointed herm, because they're gay themselves and have been stealthily but steadily running "normal" straight people out of Media for 25 or 30 years now.

The propaganda orgy over Philadelphia coming out at the same time as the Mathew Shepard story was almost 20 years ago now -- 1994.

25 posted on 06/22/2012 5:40:47 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: twister881

...And Holder is 0bama’s Stedman..


26 posted on 06/22/2012 6:49:43 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: Uncle Miltie
Absolutely correct. The Evil One as much as said so, when he said he was working on gun control "under the radar".

Creating a synthetic crisis as an excuse to take rights away from an entire nation.

It's been done before.

Google "Reichstag fire"

27 posted on 06/22/2012 6:50:20 PM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: neverdem

Thanks for the ping!


28 posted on 06/22/2012 9:08:36 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: lentulusgracchus

That’s pretty much what I expect too.


29 posted on 06/22/2012 10:38:22 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: unique1

Here’s a start for you:
http://news.investors.com/article/615871/201206221823/fast-and-furious-different-than-wide-receiver.htm?p=2


30 posted on 06/22/2012 10:55:37 PM PDT by 1066AD
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To: TigersEye

Article I read said the locks on their SUV “apparently malfunctioned allowing easy access for the attackers”


31 posted on 06/22/2012 10:58:07 PM PDT by 1066AD
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To: 1066AD
Forgot the link Family of Jaime Zapata files claims.
32 posted on 06/22/2012 11:00:48 PM PDT by 1066AD
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To: 1066AD
Zapata wrote a report on F & F in August 2010: Sipsey Street Exclusive: Investigators discover I.C.E. Report of Investigation on seizure of Fast & Furious weapons in Texas in August 2010 SIGNED BY JAIME ZAPATA!

Congressional investigators permitted to view Department of Homeland Security documents related to the Fast and Furious operation have located and seen an Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) Report of Investigation (ROI) from August 2010 describing 80 weapons seized in an arms smuggling interdiction between Phoenix, Arizona and San Antonio, Texas. Of these weapons, the majority (approximately 50) were noted to have come from Operation Fast & Furious in Arizona, purchased by Uriel Patino and Jacob Chambers. The ROI was written and signed by Homeland Security Investigations Special Agent Jaime Zapata, who was shot dead in an ambush at a fake roadblock in San Luis Potosí, Mexico on 15 February 2011. At the time of the report, Agent Zapata was assigned to the Laredo office.

33 posted on 06/22/2012 11:08:07 PM PDT by 1066AD
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To: 1066AD
The door locks didn't malfunction they unlock when the transmission is put in park. It's a GM "safety feature."

Armored SUV could not protect U.S. agents in Mexico

Forced off the road in a well-coordinated ambush, surrounded by drug cartel gunmen brandishing AK-47s, Zapata and his partner, Victor Avila, rolled to a stop. Zapata put the vehicle in park.

The door locks popped open.

That terrifying sound — a quiet click — set into motion events that remain under investigation. When Zapata needed it most, the Suburban’s elaborate armoring was rendered worthless by a consumer-friendly automatic setting useful for family vacations and hurried commuters but not for U.S. agents driving through a red zone in Mexico.


34 posted on 06/22/2012 11:24:13 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

Thanks.

I bet there’s some modifications & retrofitting since then, at least I hope so.


35 posted on 06/22/2012 11:36:56 PM PDT by 1066AD
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To: TigersEye

I heard an audio tape from CBS reporter Sheryl Atkinson which was a Conversation between an ATF or FBI agent talking with a Gun Dealer where there was a Discussion about a Third Gun Used in that Killing,The statement was Made that if the third gun was found that would create a real Problem and the Agent said dont worry that Gun would Never be found,dont worry.


36 posted on 06/23/2012 5:18:49 AM PDT by ballplayer
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To: unique1
Question - I’ve often heard that there were similar programs under the Bush Administration but it appears that no guns actually got to Mexico under those programs - perhaps they were effective/controlled programs to sting the buyers. Do you or anyone posting know if this is true?
According to Rush, the Bush Administration projects to which F & F has tendentiously been compared differed in two very minor respects:
  1. the Bush Administration coordinated its program with the Mexican government whereas the Obama Administration didn't, and

  2. the weapons in the Bush Administration “bugged” the weapons it used to actively try to track where the guns went, and interdict their use in lawless activities south of the border. Whereas the Obama Administration actively prevented anyone from tracking the F & F guns.
Other than that, not too much difference between the two . . .

</sarcasm>
The Bush Administration discontinued its program when the bad guys learned how to defeat the tracking devices the Feds had secreted in the guns. The Obama Adminstration didn’t even try to track theirs.
IOW, the Bushies were trying something tricky, and it didn’t work so they quit. The Obamites were trying something tricky, too - but the joke was on the American - and Mexican - people.
Speaking of the Mexicans who were affected by F & F weapons, Mexicans, in Mexico, don’t matter to liberals. Let one cross into Arizona, tho, and suddenly they are “hispanics,” and their rights are paramount. So instead of referring to the people killed in Mexico by F&F weapons as “Mexicans" we should emphasize their humanity calling them “hispanics."

37 posted on 06/23/2012 6:55:59 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which “liberalism" coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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To: 1066AD

I wouldn’t even want that in a family car.


38 posted on 06/23/2012 8:02:22 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: ballplayer

Aren’t those FedMob LEAs wonderful? That’s like the steel clad front door from David Koresh’s Waco “compound.” Just disappeared from a locked evidence storage locker. How do you just lose an 80” X 36” X 1 3/4” door?


39 posted on 06/23/2012 8:09:21 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: unique1
More links in this post about Wide Receiver.
40 posted on 06/23/2012 8:13:59 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: 1066AD

That link was very helpful, thanks.


41 posted on 06/23/2012 8:19:34 AM PDT by unique1
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion

Now, that’s some interest insight, thanks!

I’m still a little confused relating to the purpose of the entire program under both Administration - since they knew when straw buyers were buying guns here, why not simply not sell the guns at that point? I suppose catching those in the gun running business is important, but if there is no access to guns from straw buyers there would be no gun running to Mexico,

Now, not tracking guns sold by the Obama Administration must have had an entire different purpose and goal. How that was thought of as helpful to America is the huge question.


42 posted on 06/23/2012 8:28:15 AM PDT by unique1
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To: neverdem
which allowed guns purchased from US shops to fall into the hands of Mexican drug gangs on the theory that

They didn't "allow" them to "fall into the hands of Mexican drug gangs." They deliberately placed them there. And then they deliberately refused to follow or to interdict them.
43 posted on 06/23/2012 8:30:02 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: neverdem
David Burge ‏@iowahawkblog

Obama's Latino outreach: confiscate forks from Hispanics in Florida, give machine guns to Hispanics in Mexico

Collapse Reply Retweet Favorite

44 posted on 06/23/2012 8:34:57 AM PDT by Walmartian (An update is available for this tagline. Click here to download.)
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To: unique1
I’m still a little confused relating to the purpose of the entire program under both Administration - since they knew when straw buyers were buying guns here, why not simply not sell the guns at that point? I suppose catching those in the gun running business is important, but if there is no access to guns from straw buyers there would be no gun running to Mexico.
Well if you think there’s no shortage of straw buyers, the only way to interdict the gunrunning would be to track the middleman between the buyer and the end user. That’s what Bush’s program assayed to do, and it failed.
Now, not tracking guns sold by the Obama Administration must have had an entire different purpose and goal. How that was thought of as helpful to America is the huge question.
What do you mean by “America?” If you mean "the middle class,” Obama has shown no interest at all in promoting “America’s” welfare.

45 posted on 06/23/2012 5:56:44 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which “liberalism" coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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