Skip to comments.O’s ‘Real’ secret
Posted on 06/22/2012 11:39:41 AM PDT by neverdem
Pity lead House GOP investigator Rep. Darrell Issa of California. Its his misfortune that he isnt looking into matters about which the Obama administration can talk freely namely, all its covert national-security programs.
If Justice Department documents that Issa's committee seeks from Attorney General Eric Holder had been the subject of a top-secret meeting in the White House Situation Room, their contents already wouldve been splashed across the media. Issa could read the A-1 New York Times story and be done with it.
But the Holder documents are an entirely different matter. They relate to the bizarrely misconceived Operation Fast and Furious, which allowed guns purchased from US shops to fall into the hands of Mexican drug gangs on the theory that . . . well, it's not clear exactly what the theory was. Somehow, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives thought that letting 2,000 guns walk into the arsenals of bad actors with no means of tracking them would be a devastating blow against gun-trafficking.
The cone of silence has slammed shut on the latest batch of Fast and Furious documents subpoenaed by Issa. When its a secret, high-tech program to disrupt Iran's nuclear program, administration officials are chatty and expansive; when its documents that could further embarrass Holder, their rule is loose lips sink ships. President Obama is making a dubious...
From the start, Holder's Justice Department hasn't been able to keep its story straight on Fast and Furious, although its always insisted that top officials had no prior knowledge of it. In a February 2011 letter, it told Congress that the ATF made every effort to interdict the guns before they got into Mexico (wrong) and that it hadn't sanctioned or otherwise knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons to suspicious people (false)...
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
It never madr any sense. It was just fast and stupid to placate the Brady Bunch for donations.
The NRA is already taking them to court for the ATF's directive requiring 8,000 southwest gun dealers to repost multiple sales of certain evil long guns after the ATF told the dealers to make the Fast and Furious sales after the dealers expressed their reservation to the ATF on their own initiative!!!
If it is ever discovered with documented proof that F&F was a Democrat President’s plan and executed, full scale assault on the 2nd Amendment, there would never be another Democrat elected to the highest office in the land for a century.........................
What we have here, is a nasty case of “nekkid imperor” syndrome.
The two possible ways to explain the F&F scheme are:
1) Criminal negligence resulting in multiple deaths (what Obama and Holder want us to believe); and,
2) Criminal conspiracy resulting in multiple deaths.
The resort to Executive Privilege as claimed here degrades the concept. This needs to go to court on a fast-track. If the truth can be forced into the open, we then need a Special Prosecutor to pursue criminal charges.
"bizarrely misconceived"? Far from it.
Fast and Furious was designed to create a Mexican Body Count with American guns, so that the Second Amendment could be destroyed here by 0bama.
That hypothesis fits all known facts.
It explains the Executive Priveledge claim too, because 0bama probably directed or approved the whole effort. Dead people. On purpose. In order to destroy the Bill of Rights. Think about it.
“Occam’s Razor” suggests that the simplest explanation that fits the facts is probably correct.
I believe that you have nailed it.
That’s the simplest explanation you can come up with?
Good hypothesis. My version of yours...
more guns in bad guys hands = more innocent dead or terrorized = more opportunity for gun control.
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It's almost like Issa ropa-doped Barry into this move.
ICE Agent Jaime Zapata was also killed with a gun from Project Gunrunner.
While the weapons found at the Zapata murder scene were not from among the Fast and Furious guns, this revelation is profoundly significant, because it directly contradicts sworn testimony by Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano.
I have no information to that effect, no. I dont know one way or the other, she replied to a direct question on any Fast and Furious connection by Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas.
Word games. Here's the little trick Napolitano, Holder and ATF are playing. F&F was an ATF operation run out of the Tucson AZ office. But some guns were walked out of Texas gun shops which puts them in the jurisdiction of Texas ATF offices so those ops must have had other names. So far I have not seen any reporting on what those op names were.
Armored SUV could not protect U.S. agents in Mexico
U.S. investigators recovered one of the military-style semi-automatic weapons used in the attack that killed Zapata.
The gun came from Texas.
Ballistic testing of spent shell casings and the raising of an obliterated serial number revealed the weapon was a popular Romanian-made AK-47 knockoff purchased at J&Js Pawn Shop in Beaumont, smuggled south to the Zetas by a methamphetamine trafficker named Manuel Gomez Barba, a U.S. citizen.
BP Agent Brian Terry was not the only Federal agent killed by guns allowed to walk by the ATF-DoJ.
ICE Agent Jaime Zapata and his partner, Victor Avila, were ambushed at a fake roadblock in Mexico. Were they set up? If so by whom?
The lame stream media may still try to downplay any court case, but how can the Spanish speaking media keep a lid on it?
I actually hope the MSM keeps carrying 0boobie's water until it becomes crystal clear to the most brain dead zombie that they're corrupt and useless. They deserve to go down with him.
Question - I’ve often heard that there were similar programs under the Bush Administration but it appears that no guns actually got to Mexico under those programs - perhaps they were effective/controlled programs to sting the buyers. Do you or anyone posting know if this is true?
“It’s almost like Issa ropa-doped Barry into this move.”
But Holder/Obama have controlled timing for the most part.
They have probably taken the F&F results to beyond election day (their objective).
Assuming the GOP holds the House, it could well be a repeat of Watergate and Monicagate, with Impeachment at stake (assuming Obama wins).
Assuming Romney wins, do the documents sought by Issa’s committee belong to the Justice Dept., or to Holder/Obama?
Would a new AJ be able to investigate F&F and indict Holder/Obama for crimes?
I think the answer to that is "absolutely" and if a court rejects the claim of Executive Privilege now or later then that cover is out the window. The real question is would Romney allow prosecutions under his administration. I'm not hopeful about that.
“The real question is would Romney allow prosecutions under his administration. I’m not hopeful about that.”
If he did not, it would follow the pattern of new Potus shutting the door on the past.
If his main tasks are to improve our economy and keep us safe, it might be more wise to avoid the distraction.
Bush didn’t continue pursuit of Clinton and his cronnies.
I would see that as nothing more than a continuation of the corruption and a stamp of approval for it.
The elites play hugball among themselves and fob other people off with anything the elites think they'll believe.
When it was time to prosecute Slick, Dubya sent Rove out to hand us some bullshine about not wanting to let Slick upstage The President's agenda with a bunch of courtroom histrionics and sucking all the air out of the room, mediawise. (Oh, yeah --- can't let that precious "in" with Media go!)
Arizona is the new 'corridor' for all illegal trafficking which will be controlled by (and provide funds to) our government, Mexico's government, organized crime (cartels), and a string of politicians willing to take bribes.
They even have signs up in Arizona declaring it the 'new corridor' and Warn US citizens to STAY OUT.
What is the more significant fact is that so many in Media worship him for it and grovel before his perfumed-and-anointed herm, because they're gay themselves and have been stealthily but steadily running "normal" straight people out of Media for 25 or 30 years now.
The propaganda orgy over Philadelphia coming out at the same time as the Mathew Shepard story was almost 20 years ago now -- 1994.
...And Holder is 0bama’s Stedman..
Creating a synthetic crisis as an excuse to take rights away from an entire nation.
It's been done before.
Google "Reichstag fire"
Thanks for the ping!
That’s pretty much what I expect too.
Article I read said the locks on their SUV “apparently malfunctioned allowing easy access for the attackers”
Congressional investigators permitted to view Department of Homeland Security documents related to the Fast and Furious operation have located and seen an Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) Report of Investigation (ROI) from August 2010 describing 80 weapons seized in an arms smuggling interdiction between Phoenix, Arizona and San Antonio, Texas. Of these weapons, the majority (approximately 50) were noted to have come from Operation Fast & Furious in Arizona, purchased by Uriel Patino and Jacob Chambers. The ROI was written and signed by Homeland Security Investigations Special Agent Jaime Zapata, who was shot dead in an ambush at a fake roadblock in San Luis Potosí, Mexico on 15 February 2011. At the time of the report, Agent Zapata was assigned to the Laredo office.
Armored SUV could not protect U.S. agents in Mexico
Forced off the road in a well-coordinated ambush, surrounded by drug cartel gunmen brandishing AK-47s, Zapata and his partner, Victor Avila, rolled to a stop. Zapata put the vehicle in park.
The door locks popped open.
That terrifying sound a quiet click set into motion events that remain under investigation. When Zapata needed it most, the Suburbans elaborate armoring was rendered worthless by a consumer-friendly automatic setting useful for family vacations and hurried commuters but not for U.S. agents driving through a red zone in Mexico.
I bet there’s some modifications & retrofitting since then, at least I hope so.
I heard an audio tape from CBS reporter Sheryl Atkinson which was a Conversation between an ATF or FBI agent talking with a Gun Dealer where there was a Discussion about a Third Gun Used in that Killing,The statement was Made that if the third gun was found that would create a real Problem and the Agent said dont worry that Gun would Never be found,dont worry.
According to Rush, the Bush Administration projects to which F & F has tendentiously been compared differed in two very minor respects:
Other than that, not too much difference between the two . . .
- the Bush Administration coordinated its program with the Mexican government whereas the Obama Administration didn't, and
- the weapons in the Bush Administration bugged the weapons it used to actively try to track where the guns went, and interdict their use in lawless activities south of the border. Whereas the Obama Administration actively prevented anyone from tracking the F & F guns.
</sarcasm>The Bush Administration discontinued its program when the bad guys learned how to defeat the tracking devices the Feds had secreted in the guns. The Obama Adminstration didnt even try to track theirs.
IOW, the Bushies were trying something tricky, and it didnt work so they quit. The Obamites were trying something tricky, too - but the joke was on the American - and Mexican - people.Speaking of the Mexicans who were affected by F & F weapons, Mexicans, in Mexico, dont matter to liberals. Let one cross into Arizona, tho, and suddenly they are hispanics, and their rights are paramount. So instead of referring to the people killed in Mexico by F&F weapons as Mexicans" we should emphasize their humanity calling them hispanics."
I wouldn’t even want that in a family car.
Aren’t those FedMob LEAs wonderful? That’s like the steel clad front door from David Koresh’s Waco “compound.” Just disappeared from a locked evidence storage locker. How do you just lose an 80” X 36” X 1 3/4” door?
That link was very helpful, thanks.
Now, that’s some interest insight, thanks!
I’m still a little confused relating to the purpose of the entire program under both Administration - since they knew when straw buyers were buying guns here, why not simply not sell the guns at that point? I suppose catching those in the gun running business is important, but if there is no access to guns from straw buyers there would be no gun running to Mexico,
Now, not tracking guns sold by the Obama Administration must have had an entire different purpose and goal. How that was thought of as helpful to America is the huge question.
Obama's Latino outreach: confiscate forks from Hispanics in Florida, give machine guns to Hispanics in Mexico
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Well if you think theres no shortage of straw buyers, the only way to interdict the gunrunning would be to track the middleman between the buyer and the end user. Thats what Bushs program assayed to do, and it failed.Now, not tracking guns sold by the Obama Administration must have had an entire different purpose and goal. How that was thought of as helpful to America is the huge question.
What do you mean by America? If you mean "the middle class, Obama has shown no interest at all in promoting Americas welfare.