Posted on 08/25/2012 1:50:12 PM PDT by servo1969
NEW YORK – All nine people wounded during a dramatic confrontation between police and a gunman outside the Empire State Building were struck by bullets fired by the two officers, police said Saturday, citing ballistics evidence.
The veteran patrolmen who opened fire on the suit-wearing gunman, Jeffrey Johnson, had only an instant to react when he whirled and pointed a .45-caliber pistol as they approached him from behind on a busy sidewalk.
Officer Craig Matthews shot seven times. Officer Robert Sinishtaj fired nine times, police said. Neither had ever fired their weapons before on a patrol.
The volley of gunfire felled Johnson in just a few seconds and left nine other people bleeding on the sidewalk.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
I guess using “civilians” as a backstop is new police procedure...
Dks. They need more range time and it should be in a kill room with moving targets.
As it is, their control and judgement should result in permanent desk time or expulsion from the force with a public explanation so they can never work for another department.
Doesn’t make them bad guys, just dudes who should not carry a gun on duty.
Two officers fired 16 shots with at least nine shot being so errant as to injure 9 people!!!???
Seriously? That is nearly 60% off target and face palm failure, in the least.
And yet, they claim the bad guy had 10 holes in him. How?
By my math, only 7 bullets could have struck the gun man.
13# triggers? Haven’t heard of that.
They should standardize on Kimbers. Best triggers evuh and allow you stay on target.
As another example of “why we need more gun control”, this story has completely fizzled. The antigunnies will look like real idiots if they try.
Out in the vast hinterlands beyond the Hudson River, ordinary folks will look at this and (a) trust the police even less, (b) thank their lucky stars they don’t live in New York, (c) realize each is responsible for his/her own defense, and (d) acquire the guns & ammo needed to do so.
Nannie Bloomberg’s chief of police is getting his @#$ reamed over this, I betcha.
Ricochets and fragments is the official story, and I believe it. I was objecting to 16 rounds being fired to drop a target at relatively close range. Seems a bit unprofessional.
This is from wiki:
New NYPD officers are allowed to select one of three 9mm service pistols: the SIG P226 DAO, Smith & Wesson Model 5946, and Glock 19. All are modified to a 12-pound (53 N) trigger pull.The 9mm explains all shots fired by the cops -- no stopping power like a 45 ACP or an 'in between round' like 40S&W, and the 9mm explains all the collateral damage to the civilians. As I bet the rent in NYC they have to use the 'humane' FMJ round which is notorious for 'through and through' shots -- they did hit the nutcase Johnson 10 times yet civilians got shot too. And IMHO a 12 pound trigger pull is insane. The Glock 19 factory standard is 5 1/2 pounds.
Even the Chi PD allows the cops to use the .45ACP and 40 S&W. Only rookies are restricted to a 9mm for the 1st eighteen months, then they can 'arm up'. And the CPD can use Hollow Points and factory std trigger pulls (I checked this all yesterday). Another diff is Chi Cops have to buy their own service weapon(s). But recently Glocks became verbotten. Some Chief had 'an incident' with his Glock and had them banned.
Given the close range, some of the ricochets may have been direct hits which exited the body. According to reports, a fair number of the bullet holes in the perp were exit wounds.
“I’m a cop, you idiot!”
No, you don’t understand. The weapons they issue have been modified to have triggers that heavy to compensate for their institutional firearm training issues.
It wouldn’t matter if they chose Kimber or H&K or STI. They would still mandate stupid heavy triggers instead of training their personnel properly and holding them responsible for their conduct with firearms.
Especially by people who panic and shoot innocent bystanders....
I believe NYPD issues Speer Gold Dot. 124gr.HP rounds. 9mm.
I remember reading about an incident in Texas... Houston?... where dozens of cops surrounding a house opened fire on a gunman who emerged and hundreds of rounds hit the HOUSE and a few hit the gunman.
I guess nobody wanted to be the one to actually shoot the guy or something
I don’t get it. Why Would anyone want a 18# trigger
Boy, it’s a good thing guns are illegal in New York...folks could hurt around there...
Oh, wait....
Interesting. Since they limit the handguns to 9mm, I’m surprised the super pc liberal NYC would do that. Hollow Points are like those banned ‘dum-dum bullets’. /s
an aside: Every now and then I’ll check suburbs near me on what ammo they have out for bids and too many (IMO) are still using FMJ. Luckily, violent crime is basically non existent in those burbs.
One head shot from either Officer and the event is over!
The ten foot range makes this a deplorable shooting.
I think that was Lubbock TX, and it was an over response to a single guy in a house who was pissed at his cheating wife, and was throwing her stuff on the yard. Instead of sending a few boys in blue to talk to him low key, the sent a SWAT Team. He went inside, and they demanded he come out. One SWAT cop had a negligent discharge, leading to a circular firing squad through the house that killed a cop or two. They pinned these “murders” on the man inside, and he would have been fried, but he had no rifle in 5.56 mm. OOPS! So they perforated his house with 100s of bullets, but released him from the murder rap. “Sorry!”
Another case of those fantastic jacked-up police depts just doing the job so much better than civilians can ever imagine doing it.
Certainly justified. Good is not a term I would use however. Once they decided on hot pursuit and the guy pulled his gun the shooting was justified. The guy closest to the perp did OK imho. Combat stance, took some cover. Both hands on the weapon arms flexed a bit and looked like he had a sight picture.
The other cop? Not good. I think you will find that the only thing he hit was civilians .
Because the NYPD brass and the NY government are idiots. They won’t train their cops properly (particularly on trigger discipline) and they won’t punish cops that break firearms handling rules.
NYPD doesn’t teach the basic rules of firearms safety and thinks a superheavy trigger will fix the problem.
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