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People line up to legally make untraceable guns(CA)
10news.com ^ | 18 November, 2012 | JW August

Posted on 11/21/2012 8:30:52 AM PST by marktwain

SAN DIEGO - A long line of people snaked out of a North County machine shop on a recent Sunday. The customers were there to build a gun.

Customers do not get to the machine shop until after they are checked out by Ares Armor in Oceanside. Team 10 promised not to reveal the location of the actual machine shop.

Dmitri Harris runs the Ares Armor store, along with his buddies, some Marine Corps infantry veterans. The shop is busy because more people are finding out about the chance to build your own gun without having to go through any registration or government signups of any kind.

It is possible because of the Gun Control Act of 1968. It reads, "an unlicensed individual may make a firearm," but also says it has to be for personal use and cannot be for sale or distribution.

Harris warns that not everyone can build their own gun. Non U.S. citizens, felons or anyone disqualified from gun ownership cannot participate.

Read more about the 1968 law and information from Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms that clear up any ambiguities here, here and here. Additionally, you can read letters from the ATF here and here.

Team 10 purchased a piece of aluminum and watched as it was turned into a receiver for an AR-15. It can take four or five hours to do this, depending on how busy the shop is. Inside that machine shop is a computer-controlled milling machine that cuts out the aluminum.

(Excerpt) Read more at 10news.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: banglist; ca; homemade; sandiego
People have been making their own guns since guns were first made.
1 posted on 11/21/2012 8:31:02 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Cool. I want one.


2 posted on 11/21/2012 8:40:14 AM PST by Nachum (The List is off the Google blacklist- www.nachumlist.com)
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To: marktwain
Yep. When I was 12 years old I made my first “zip gun” in 22 short with a car antenna, a rubber band, a hammer from a cap gun, and some wood for a handle. It worked occasionally but it developed into a serious romantic attachment to guns. :-)
3 posted on 11/21/2012 8:41:53 AM PST by mosaicwolf (Strength and Honor)
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To: marktwain

detailed plans for lower receivers are available all over the internet and more and more people have access to CNC machines now, so this is not surprising. The rest of the parts, uppers, etc, are all available without checks and are not serialized.


4 posted on 11/21/2012 8:42:06 AM PST by mnehring
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To: marktwain

I guess some people expect the democrats who now have more power than ever to make it illegal for honest, law-abiding citizens to own guns and to deliberately allow criminals to have guns.
What gives them that idea?


5 posted on 11/21/2012 8:43:05 AM PST by I want the USA back (NRA Life member.)
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To: marktwain
Exactly. Back in the 80s, a machinist buddy of mine made a wild looking single-shot 50-cal pistol. He was big on safety. So it was massively overbuilt, very heavy and chunky looking. Still... I wanted it! :-)

All you'd need is a small machine shop in your garage and you'd be up and running. People probably need to understand, however, that all the usual restrictions apply: no machine guns or other guns that would make Schumer's panties bunch up. Not saying I agree with it (I definitely do not). Just saying you'll be opening yourself up to prosecution if you start manufacturing machine guns in your garage or anywhere else that's trying to fly under law enforcement's radar.

6 posted on 11/21/2012 8:54:21 AM PST by LibWhacker
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To: marktwain

Too bad News10 did a story like this. I now expect that there will be other news stories and the legislature will step in to try and put a stop to it.


7 posted on 11/21/2012 8:57:08 AM PST by ElkGroveDan (My tagline is in the shop.)
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To: ElkGroveDan
Too bad News10 did a story like this. I now expect that there will be other news stories and the legislature will step in to try and put a stop to it.

Which was probably the exact intention of running the story.

8 posted on 11/21/2012 9:00:41 AM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: marktwain

It seems that with CNC machine tools, one can make one’s own gun simply by renting the time on a machine that is programmed for it, and being the one to press the “start” button.

Very clever.


9 posted on 11/21/2012 9:01:22 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Hold My Beer and Watch This!)
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To: Beelzebubba
It seems that with CNC machine tools, one can make one’s own gun simply by renting the time on a machine that is programmed for it, and being the one to press the “start” button.

Not long ago during a discussion about 3D printing, someone mentioned this turnkey machine approach has been tried at times in the past until the ATF steps in and shuts the operation down.

10 posted on 11/21/2012 9:14:48 AM PST by fso301
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To: marktwain
They are amazingly simple to build when you have the know-how and a few tools. John Browning introduced some revolutionary developments in the firearms industry with nothing more than a backyard machine shop and 1840s technology.

My father helped me build a wicked long hunting knife in the garage with nothing more than 1960s technology and a worn out 18" long steel file that he gotten at a garage sale for a quarter.

11 posted on 11/21/2012 9:26:47 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: ElkGroveDan
Too bad News10 did a story like this. I now expect that there will be other news stories and the legislature will step in to try and put a stop to it.

Yes, this must be disconcerting to the left. They put their computer skills to use stealing elections, while we use ours to fabricate firearms and share this DIY info. Sooner or later, our selection will win out in very spectacular fashion.

12 posted on 11/21/2012 9:36:41 AM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: fso301

If anything, these open-access machine shops are becoming more numerous. I’ve gotta go check out the new TechShop in Round Rock, Texas. If it has has adequate CNC metalworking equipment, I’ll buy a membership and see what I can do with a block of aluminum and a USB flash drive.


13 posted on 11/21/2012 9:44:56 AM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: ElkGroveDan

That was the whole purpose of the news story...


14 posted on 11/21/2012 10:00:21 AM PST by Axenolith (Government blows, and that which governs least, blows least...)
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To: Charles Martel

My son is on a competitive robotics team that I help coach. We’re in the process of assembling a CNC router and have a 3D printer.

Might be fun.


15 posted on 11/21/2012 10:04:38 AM PST by cyclotic ( Obama's golden halo is really just a rusted hubcap)
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To: Charles Martel

I’ve been thinking about signing up at a techshop near me, but not for making a gun. Please let me know how this goes. Perhaps even put together an “instructable”?


16 posted on 11/21/2012 10:29:54 AM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: marktwain
It is very easy to construct a cheaply made gun with very few tools. Think about the homemade Sten submachine guns used by European and Israeli fighters in the 1940’s. The Israelis also made their own ammunition in underground factories in various Kibbutz.
17 posted on 11/21/2012 10:36:33 AM PST by MasterGunner01
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To: cyclotic
My son is on a competitive robotics team that I help coach. We’re in the process of assembling a CNC router and have a 3D printer.

Might be fun.

Maybe more fun to built your own 3-D printer with a 3-D printer

18 posted on 11/21/2012 10:51:31 AM PST by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: marktwain


19 posted on 11/21/2012 11:07:23 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (The parasites now outnumber the producers.)
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To: marktwain

Yep.

If people would quit fixating on making an AR-15, they could make many quality guns with nothing more than a simple lathe. If they’re willing to invest a fair bit of time, they could make a passable gun with a drill press and a bunch of hand files.

If people get off their plush posteriors and started reading (there’s that word again) about older single-shot guns from the 1880’s to 1900 or so, they’d find that there were many falling/rolling block designs one can make pretty easily without much in the way of machine tooling. All you’d really need to buy would be a barrel. You’ll need to buy a chamber reamer, but you can ream a chamber by hand, you can make all the cuts needed by hand, and if you clamp rather than thread the barrel into the receiver, you might not even need a lathe.


20 posted on 11/21/2012 11:31:30 AM PST by NVDave
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To: mnehring
Although this article has got my excitement up,
I'm sure that it has also elevated this "Loop Hole" to the top of Charles "The Snakeman" Schumer's to do list.

21 posted on 11/21/2012 1:30:30 PM PST by Falcon4.0
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To: Falcon4.0

I’m sure there is. I seriously doubt if the legality regarding the ‘for personal use’ exception will be looked upon as freely as we would like if ATF or other alphabet agency decides to take a gander at what is going on.

Of course, it doesn’t matter with all of the tragic canoeing incidents happening. Everyone seems to always lose guns in those.


22 posted on 11/21/2012 1:55:32 PM PST by mnehring
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To: marktwain

Certainly an interesting article, but why go through the trouble of setting up a machine shop when all the ammo, guns and armaments you’ll ever need are sitting there for the taking?

Come on, guys. Do you really believe that the forecasters at the National Weather Service will be shooting cop-killer bullets out their arses and hitting targets at 500 meters?


23 posted on 11/21/2012 4:30:31 PM PST by sergeantdave (The FBI has declared war on the Marine Corps)
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To: piroque
Maybe more fun to built your own 3-D printer with a 3-D printer


24 posted on 11/21/2012 10:31:46 PM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: NVDave

Been there, done that.

“Mr. Single Shot’s Book of Rifle Plans — designed for the serious gunbuilding enthusiast. Included are detailed instructions on how to build four unique breech loading single shot rifles, from metal stock to a finished rifle.”

http://www.dehaas.com/guns/


25 posted on 11/21/2012 10:53:38 PM PST by eartrumpet
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To: eartrumpet

Already own that book.... and many more.

I think the first one I make from scratch will be a 1878 Borchardt or a 1885 High Wall.

What I’d like to find is the right sized shaper to do the interior corners and outside flats. Shapers leave a nice, clean surface finish from their cut, unlike mill cuts.


26 posted on 11/22/2012 9:02:56 AM PST by NVDave
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To: marktwain

It’s a wonderful place and the guys who own it are extremely nice and helpful!


27 posted on 11/22/2012 9:07:20 AM PST by CAluvdubya (We're doomed....)
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To: NVDave

I ground a shaper cutter to cut the block mortise on a falling block I made. The shop had an old shaper but it was too worn out and used up, so I held the tool in a Bridgeport, locked the spindle, and used the quill to shove it down to clean out the corners and smooth the walls. It worked, but it isn’t for high production.

The outside mill cuts were easy enough to clean up with filing and sanding and polishing.

de Haas gets around the whole mortise with his vault locks and chicopees using round holes or flat plates. Both work, I have discovered.


28 posted on 11/22/2012 9:12:34 AM PST by eartrumpet
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To: eartrumpet

Yep, and I’ve done something similar by mounting a cutter on a bar between centers on a lathe, putting the hollow piece on the cross-slide and moving the carriage back and forth. It’s amazing what one can accomplish without the “perfect” tool when one puts one’s mind to it... but as you say, it won’t make for production.

I’ve looked closely at de Haas’ designs and I’m going to try one of them, then try some ideas I have on how to alter them. The certainly work, it’s just that they don’t “look right,” and I’m at that point in gun work where I like nice looking guns...


29 posted on 11/22/2012 9:58:02 AM PST by NVDave
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To: marktwain; All

This book has everything you need to know:

http://www.amazon.com/Improvised-Munitions-Handbook-TM-210/dp/B000OQRFMQ/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1353623138&sr=8-5&keywords=improvised+munitions

After Hurricane Katrina, everyone should have a copy on hand.


30 posted on 11/22/2012 2:30:35 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Read SCOTUS Castle Rock vs Gonzales before dialing 911!)
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To: NewJerseyJoe

P4L


31 posted on 01/11/2013 9:08:03 PM PST by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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