Posted on 07/29/2013 7:07:04 AM PDT by IbJensen
Pope Francis on Monday said “who am I to judge?” gay people as he discussed one of the most divisive issues affecting the Catholic Church.
Pope Francis, who gave a press conference on his flight back from Brazil, said he had stayed away from the gay marriage debate on his trip because he wanted to stay positive.
“I have yet to find anyone who has a business card that says he is gay,” the pontiff said at a press conference in which he addressed the reports of a "gay lobby" within the Vatican.
“They say they exist. If someone is gay, who searches for the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge?” he added. "The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalized because of this (orientation) but that they must be integrated into society."
Francis added that he thought lobbies of any kind -- including political ones -- were bad.
"The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem," he said.
The press conference, which lasted for an hour and 20 minutes, was held during the flight back from his week-long trip to Brazil.
The official position of the Catholic Church on the issue is that while homosexual desires or attractions are not in themselves sinful, the physical acts are.
All priests take a vow of celibacy when they become members of the clergy.
The pontiff went to Brazil on his first visit overseas since he was elected in March.
The Pope said he had stayed away from the issue of gay marriage and also abortion on his week-long trip to Brazil because he wanted to stay positive.
Francis discussed a range of issues during the press conference, admitting that the church had not done enough to develop “the theology of women in the church.”
He said that the church had spoken on the issue of women priests and expressed itself clearly on the issue of abortion, but he added that important female biblical figures had been overlooked.
"Mary is more important than the apostles," he said. "One must think about women in the church. We have not done enough theology on this."
History's first Latin American pope said he was "pretty tired" but with a happy heart after his first overseas trip.
He said he was amazed at the number of people who turned out to see him in Brazil, especially the three million who jammed Copacabana Beach for Sunday's Mass.
He added that he was unconcerned by the tumultuous start to the trip that included the discovery of a bomb at a shrine he visited and the mob scene that took place when his driver inadvertently made wrong turn.
"There's always the danger of a crazy person, but there is also the Lord," he said. "This being close is good for everyone."
I’m sure that no one thought that, friend. :)
‘You may wish to review real history, ma’am.”
Real history sir. You wouldn’t have a Bible to pick apart and interpret at will if there wasn’t a Catholic religion and its scholars to create said Bible. You’d be out of luck. Or maybe you would have been happier if the Gnostics put the Bible together.
We may disagree on some points (!), but we are all Christians.
“Would have like to see you correct a whole lot more than just that.”
That’s “liked” not “like” above. A typo I’m sure.
Most definitely I affirm the practice of Christianity in the Roman Catholic community. Many people have been evangelicals (have found a direct faith in the Lord Jesus Christ) in the context of the Roman Catholic community. I think of Blaise Pascal for one. The church as “bridge” can at best usher a person to the Door who is the personal Christ. That person has to go for himself or herself through that Door and can refuse.
“Repenting means being forgiven and then going about the rest of your life having done penance and not revisiting the past occasion of sin.
Having received absolution from God through the confessor does not mean that there is not still some atonement due for a grievous sin.”
You make my point. I believe the majority of homosexuals are repeat offenders in their thoughts, otherwise they wouldn’t be homosexuals. Their thinking is how they are attracted to the same sex, which is why so many of them were naturally attracted to the Catholic Church priesthood in the first place, IMHO. They get a twofer, they are surrounded by their own sex, and they get a shot at altar boys to boot. Winning, as Charlie Sheen would say.
He seems to be suggesting that they are a strong and troublesome lobbying force at the Vatican.
THEREFORE, He didn't say "who am I to judge?" with regard to homosexual behavior. He avoids, in fact, saying he doesn't judge by answering a question with a question. HOWEVER, he implies that his nonjudgmentalism is to the person with same-sex attraction who is earnestly seeking Christ, NOT to just any gay person regardless of their mindset. Nor is he exempting gay behavior from judgment, which he goes on to say that the Catechism has clearly explained is disordered behavior.
That's like saying, "We were the garage for the Ferrari, so we made the Ferrari!" The Gospel stands by itself, in the Scriptures, none of which a Catholic wrote.
Good catch. Yes, a typo.
This is possibly one of the most heretical things posted around here (other than the claim the Catholics wrote the Bible). But, no sir, Mary was not herself conceived without sex. That is patently wrong and supportable only in Catholic myths.
I never used the term Protestant. That was someone else, my FRiend. I prefer the term biblicist (meaning what does the Book say?) vs. traditionalist (meaning what does the gang in Rome say?)
God bless you, friend, and thank you for your kind and thoughtful discussion.
Regardless, Dutch Boy, of whatever religion you may or may not espouse I would not stoop as you did to call you heretical!
But, on the other hand, you may not be a practicing Christian so I’ll take what you insultingly said with a grain of salt. But make certain you’re not paving the way to becoming a pillar of salt.
Rarely is one insulted on this forum, but today you take the cake. Enjoy it.
The problem then is in the convoluted text, or perhaps the delivery. Parsing what the new pontiff says is very difficult. My Italian isn’t what it should be perhaps.
You may wish to revisit your own language if you are that sensitive. Read my post carefully, I said the posting was heretical, not you. But, this is the kind of "smear the edges" work often used in Catholicism. Pay no attention to the words of Scripture, just set out the party line and hope the sheeple follow. Well, hopefully, God allows some scales to fall from eyes glued on Rome!
I believe that the evil saturation of the priesthood idea began in the Kremlin.
Stalin knew that his evil regime had two very tenacious enemies: the United States and the Roman Catholic Church. I believe, based on past readings, that his scheme was to saturate the seminaries with homosexuals who would worm their way into higher church positions.
This scheme was hatched by his satan-inspired mind back about 1950, but the success of his evil is manifested today in the scandal that has rotted Catholicism throughout the world. Those phony priests were compensated for their treachery by having free rein over youngsters.
Read the Bible -
1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife. 2 And ye are puffed up , and have not rather mourned , that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present , concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together , and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast , not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company , if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat . 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth . Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
HERE is the ENTIRE statement that you slashed in order to defend the indefensible:
Where is the chastisement of Jesus Christ, Where??
Got it now?
Firstly, that's Christ, not you, despite whatever complex
Is it that you still don't get it OR are purposely being obtuse? The Pope doesn't want to "offend" those he refers to as "gay" -- the language itself indicting of a so-called "Christian" Leader who won't smash the money-changers table NOR address homosexuality head on as "sinful."
Secondly, this is specifically for those who have a homosexual orientation or tendency and do not act on it...If someone is gay and does not act on this sin, do you chastise them?
Oh really? have YOU gotten a personal memo from the Pink Pope himself?
The Pope: "If someone is gay, who searches for the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge?”
The Pope is already conceding the condition of homosexuality. WHERE is his chastisement, "GO AND SIN NO MORE!"? Moreover, what is "goodwill" in whose eyes does it merit Heaven?
He's no "Christian" Leader, or especially "Vicar of Christ" -- this Pope is just an ecumenical Feel-Good fraud.
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