Tenn. lawmakers: VW incentives threatened by UAW

AP via Kingsport TN Times News ^ | February 10, 2014 | ERIK SCHELZIG

[don-o]

More than likely, the state offered the incentives based on financial return projections. Said projections would have to be considerably lowered in the event of a unionized plant.

Can that be shown to be true? The ancillary business - parts suppliers, freight haulers plus the existing business to feed, clothe, house and amuse the workers are still going to be there. How exactly does unionization alter projected returns?

[Alter Kaker]

Ten most profitable companies in the world, according to Forbes:

1.Exxon Mobil
2. Apple
3. Gazprom
4. Industrial and Commercial Bank of China
5. China Construction Bank
6. VOLKSWAGEN
7. Royal Dutch Shell
8. Chevron
9. Agricultural Bank of China
10. Bank of China

http://money.cnn.com/gallery/magazines/fortune/2013/07/08/global-500-most-profitable.fortune/1.html

Yeah, let’s tell these guys how to run their own business. Clearly they’re idiots who don’t know what they’re doing...

[Hot Tabasco]

Because the state is already involved by giving them special tax incentives, which should not happen in the first place.

I have no problems whatsoever with major companies coming into my state and building their plants due to tax incentives. If such plants result in the employment of me and my current unemployed neighbors, why is that a bad thing?

I would have thought that you, a self professed conservative, would be against taxes regardless of who or what is being taxed?

[Hot Tabasco]

VW had a unionized plant in Pennsylvania from 1978 to 1988. I think they know what they're getting in to.

What happened to it?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

I have no problems whatsoever with major companies coming into my state and building their plants due to tax incentives. If such plants result in the employment of me and my current unemployed neighbors, why is that a bad thing?

Spoken like a union thug who wants the government to buy him a job with my money.

Which labor union are you a member of?

[nascarnation]

Failed in the 80s. Became a Sony tv plant. Now it’s empty.
They hired GM people to run it and brought in the UAW.
Not a recipe for success.

[tcrlaf]

“VW is dreaming if they think that would be the case.”

The Westmoreland VW plant is STILL sitting empty 26 years after it closed.

The FIRST thing the UAW did when they got in to the plant was to declare a strike for “Parity!” with GM and Ford. In the end, the UAW destroyed 6,000 good paying jobs in Pa, to protect “Parity” at its other auto plants.

[PeterPrinciple]

I would have thought that you, a self professed conservative, would be against taxes regardless of who or what is being taxed?

---

The definition of conservatism is special taxation or special relief from taxation?

I thought equality before the law and limited government were issues we stood on.

I do not want govt making special business decisions. they do not have a good track record.

I guess I missed the memo.....................

[detective]

“Small amount of reading I've done indicates that VW actually wants the UAW to come in. Their plan is that the union negotiates wages and benefits while an employee works council sets work rules and conditions.”

Unless VW management are complete idiots I can't imagine why they would possibly think that. Once UAW gets into a plant they control everything. These companies can not afford a long strike. They can't afford to be pressured.

Talk to anyone who has ever held a management position in a UAW auto plant. UAW controls everything. They lean on the company. Ask anyone in management if they have not seen tires slashed or cars vandalized in the parking lot. Ask if they haven't seen people threatened. Asked if they haven't seen workers get high and drunk on the job and protected by the UAW.

[Vigilanteman]

Number of jobs = more payroll taxes = financial returns to the state for offering the incentives.

Show me a UAW plant anywhere which is close to as productive as any reasonably run non-union plant by Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, etc. They aren't for a simple reason: the UAW (or any union of comparable militancy) bring in work rules which are inflexible and result in more people standing around and being paid to do nothing. If they are fortune, it might be just on occasion. If they aren't, it could be for years as GM discovered.

Of course, Tennessee could do NOTHING if VW closed its doors and left. Just as California could do nothing when Toyota shut down the NUMMI venture with General Motors/UAW.

Accordingly, anyone who thinks the state doesn't have a stake in management when they give incentives is as clueless as those who think venture capitalists won't try their hand at micromanagement the first time profits hint going south.

[DoodleDawg]

What happened to it?

They shut it down. It made the Rabbit and other small cars. In the 80's Volkswagen almost got driven out of the U.S. market by Japanese and U.S. competition so the factory was closed. Plus at the time VW was big into developing nations. And there were labor issues and management issues.

[nascarnation]

California got Tesla to fill that facility.
I think all of us helped donate a few $$ to make it happen.

[DoodleDawg]

Number of jobs = more payroll taxes = financial returns to the state for offering the incentives.

And the union will impact that how?

Of course, Tennessee could do NOTHING if VW closed its doors and left. Just as California could do nothing when Toyota shut down the NUMMI venture with General Motors/UAW.

So why drive it away? There are any number of states who would throw money at VW to build there.

Accordingly, anyone who thinks the state doesn't have a stake in management when they give incentives is as clueless as those who think venture capitalists won't try their hand at micromanagement the first time profits hint going south.

As clueless as anyone who thinks that the Tennessee legislature can make better business decisions than VW management?

[rockrr]

Negotiating “in good faith” with unions is like skinny-dipping with Piranhas. Let your imagination be your guide...

[Conscience of a Conservative]

They're receptive to union organization only because they haven't had to deal with them here in the U.S. up unti now. What these krauts haven't realized is that the U.S. UAW, once they get their foothold, will ultimately destroy their competitiveness against the other non-union auto makers.......

VW is one of the most profitable companies in the world. I'm sure "these krauts" are well aware of the risks of "working with" a U.S. union.

[Hot Tabasco]

Spoken like a union thug who wants the government to buy him a job with my money.

So your community has an "x" amount of acres of undeveloped land, generating no revenues whatsoever and a company comes along with an offer to build a plant on that property. If that plant is built, it will provide 500 - 1000 jobs for people in your community, many of whom just may be unemployed.

Why would you NOT offer tax incentives to that company if it will ultimately provide jobs to your neighbors?

So you call me a "UNION THUG" simply because I'm in favor of tax incentives to a new company?

You sir are a frickin moron and have no idea what you are talking about...........

[Dr. Sivana]

They use political pressure on employers to get what they want and they push members to vote for their candidates and to volunteer their time working on their campaigns. They use union dues which are extracted by force to finance their political candidates who they control.

Agreed. But VW is no longer under der fuhrer's control, and the individual workers can spend their money and their negotiating power as they see fit.

Tennesssee should have made its expectations clearer in the original offer. It's not like an issue like this could not have been foreseen.

[Hot Tabasco]

Spoken like a union thug who wants the government to buy him a job with my money.

But I digress, how is offering a new plant tax incentives using your money?

[Hot Tabasco]

What happened to it?

They shut it down.

Thank you, you helped make my point......

[Vigilanteman]

VW had a unionized plant in Pennsylvania from 1978 to 1988. I think they know what they're getting in to.

What happened to it?

I happen to work at what's left of that plant. From 1988 to 1995, it sat idle. They bid out the rights to strip out the machinery and furnishings. A Chinese company won the bid. Then Sony came in with the incentives to rebuild it and make big screen televisions. It operated well until it became clear the 20 year incentives were not going to be renewed and the business was changing anyway.

Fortunately, our part of the company was only peripherally involved in the television business and was sold to ANOTHER company (my present employer) who liked what they saw with the staff here and offered almost all of us seamless employment contracts. So we occupy about 1/8th of the space of that plant and employ about 150 at a location which once employed over 4,000 (with Sony) and, I heard, more than double that number (with Volkswagen).

Such are the wages of dealing with the U.A.W. before 1988 and with even a non-union company which thought it would be stylish to have a foreign C.E.O. who was good at little more than brown-nosing.