Is Federal 'Leviathan' Pushing This 'Mark of the Beast' on Christians?

Charisma News ^ | 10/14/2014 | Bryan Fischer

[Karl Spooner]

Also, think positive about it. God works in ..............

[mountn man]

I’m not interested in arguing with people such as yourself who put themselves upon pillars of arrogance vaunt their self-asserted superior translation prowess to beat down anyone who does not tow their lines of “perfection”.

I posted my understanding. I don’t care if you do not like it or disagree with it.

Your kind make Pharisees pale milqetoast in comparison.

You're a real peace of work.

YOU are the one who asserted your superior translation powers.
YOU are the one claiming the special revelation from God.

Then you have the audacity to compare me to a Pharisee.

Typical liberal, with the projections.

Here, I'm going to do one more set of things here.

Since I already posted the seven times that χάραγμα is used in Revelation and the one time in Acts, here is a link to a site with the English/Greek concordance with the use of the word
http://biblehub.com/greek/charagma_5480.htm

Here is the link to Strong's concordance with the meaning
http://biblehub.com/greek/5480.htm

And here is a link to Revelation 13:16 with the word by word Greek to English comparison.
http://biblehub.com/text/revelation/13-16.htm

If anyone wants to do a search of the other verses to verify, they can either scroll further, using the arrows alongside the verse or type in the other verses used.

As anyone can see, I AM NOT using any special self asserted translation powers.

I am using tried and true methods, used my thousands of other scholars over the years.

I AM NOT the one using a "special pet doctrine" or the "doctrines du jour" as you posted.

If someone looks up the word heretical this is Mirriam Websters second definition
2: of, relating to, or characterized by departure from accepted beliefs or standards : unorthodox
You have posted a "belief" contrary to what any Bible scholars claim. With NO PROOF, except stating that your understanding comes from God.

Well...
"If I am" a Pharisee, for sticking to the Bible and relying on known interpretation,
Then who does that make you, claiming special understanding straight from God???

Are you claiming to be Jesus?

Sorry, I'll stand by the word of God on this one.

[mountn man]

The only problem is who is going to offer testimony if everyone is gone?

Its pretty clear

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

Read Revelation 7, about the 144,000 Jews, sealed by God. They are the great witnesses.

[mountn man]

I’m talking about the rapture and all the believers leaving earth and leaving the non believers to fend for themselves.

It’s not what a loving God would do.

The Bible states clearly that the Tribulation is a time of Gods wrath. All the plagues and pestilences and everything happens at God's orders.

The Tribulation is a time for Judgement. But he doesn't leave them to fend for themselves, he seals the 144,000 Jews and the 2 witnesses, to witness for Christ.

Revelation 7 describes a vast throng of believers who come from the tribulation.

[Kackikat]

I Thessalonians 4:16
The Return of the Lord
Verse:…15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.…

THE ABOVE IS WHEN JESUS COMES AS A THIEF IN THE NIGHT FOR THE CHURCH! THE CALLING AWAY IS THE RAPTURE AND IS NOT VISIBLE TO THE EARTH AS A WHOLE, ONLY BELIEVERS WHO ARE LIVING RIGHT, AND WATCHING FOR HIM. See Parable of ten virgins for that info.
LOOK UP THE SCRIPTURES.

AT BATTLE OF ARMEGEDDON JESUS COMES TO DEFEND ISRAEL WITH THE ARMIES OF HEAVEN WITH HIM, AND EVERY EYE WILL BEHOLD HIM!

[spacejunkie2001]

i believe it to be true but I do not see a 7 year window of no believers on earth. not going to happen.

[Lazamataz]

The Bible states clearly that the Tribulation is a time of Gods wrath. All the plagues and pestilences and everything happens at God's orders. The Tribulation is a time for Judgement. But he doesn't leave them to fend for themselves, he seals the 144,000 Jews and the 2 witnesses, to witness for Christ. Revelation 7 describes a vast throng of believers who come from the tribulation.

This sounds awful.

I am so screwed.

[INVAR]

You're a real peace of work.

The Lord's not done with me yet, give Him all the thanks.

YOU are the one who asserted your superior translation powers.

You might want to step away from the mirror.

YOU are the one claiming the special revelation from God.

No, now you are blatantly LYING. I specifically stated that my own study of scripture led me to my understanding. I never said anything about 'special revelation'.

There is this command about bearing false witness, perhaps your translation of Greek and Hebrew into English negates those commands to something different?

Then you have the audacity to compare me to a Pharisee.

Audacity???? Who was it who compared me to Satan in reply 122? Who was it in the very first post you pinged me to, accused me of making things up and listening to false teachers??? You got a lot of audacity yourself there pal.

Typical liberal, with the projections.

There's that mirror again.

I'll state this again - just for the record. I DO NOT subscribe to the tradition and doctrine that the "mark" in Revelation is a physical branding. Instead I understand "The mark" to be thinking (forehead) and acting (right hand) in support and submission to the Beast, which I understand to be an all-intrusive government power given power by Satan himself.

Not a Salvation issue to get yourself all worked up about, but modern-day Pharisees like yourself with agendas and pet doctrines to push - make it so and declare everyone who does not share their understanding to be heretics and of Satan - which you have perfectly demonstrated with aplomb.

One word of advice I know you will reject outright - you will never win one person to Christ by beating them over the head with scripture.

Been there, done that. It's all pride and arrogance and does nothing but sow discord among brethren. One of the things God hates.

Rethink your approach. You are not teaching in love, you are bashing in rage. You are dividing, not uniting. If you think the 'mark' is a bar code, so be it. My understanding is different. If you cannot handle that, then the problem is in either your hubris or your insecurity with what you think you believe. I think it is the former.

All I seek to know among folks like you is Christ and Him crucified. If that is not enough for you, I submit that illustrates what Spirit you are of.

[mountn man]

Revelation 7 talks of the 144,000 sealed. Revelation 7:3 saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5 from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, 6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, 7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, 8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

Immediatley we go to verse 9, where it talks of a great multitude being in heaven, taken out of the great tribulation.

Revelation 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 10 and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” 11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying, “Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.” 13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. 16 They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.”

AFTER this, chapter 8 describes the opening of the seventh seal.

So...in one chapter we have the sealed 144,000 on earth and the great multitude already in heaven.

Then we go to chapter 8 with the seventh seal.

Revelation 11 talks of the 2 witnesses who prophecy for 1260 days. 3-1/2 years.

Revelation 11:1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. 2 Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. 3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

So...the 2 witnesses are around for 1260 days, 3-1/2 years.

Revelation 11:13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Sounds to me, that if people are giving glory to God, there must be believers.

Then in chapter 12, John describes the woman (Israel) being in a place prepared for her protection for 1260 days or 3-1/2 years.

Revelation 12:5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

And then a repeat.

Revelation 12:14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

So...We have the 2 witnesses prophesying for 3-1/2 years, then we have Israel in protection for 3-1/2 years. 7 years.

[mountn man]

YOU are the one who asserted your superior translation powers.

You might want to step away from the mirror.

TWICE...I posted the actual Greek words and their meanings. The second time I provided sources.
These aren't my superior translation powers. These are from Strongs Concordance and Vines dictionary.

No, now you are blatantly LYING. I specifically stated that my own study of scripture led me to my understanding. I never said anything about 'special revelation'.

There is this command about bearing false witness, perhaps your translation of Greek and Hebrew into English negates those commands to something different?

You stated in #4: "Yes. This IS what constitutes ‘The Mark’ - not some bar code or implant." Then in #121: " My understanding comes from God, not from men who push doctrines du jour."

Well, I'M SORRY, the words used in the Bible signify a physical manifestation, a mark. You specifically said that is not what the Bible says. That it refers to something else. Then you say your understanding comes from God, not from men who who push doctrines du jour. These are word translators. These are people who specifically study languages for years. They translate word by word. Not doctrine by doctrine.

If that were so, provide your source for a different meaning of the word that has been translated into English as "mark". Show how the scholars are wrong about the meaning of the word. The only thing you've come up with is "my understanding from God". I love when people claim "understanding" from God, that runs contrary to what the Word actually says. You can't argue with them, because hey, their "understanding" comes from God.

You haven't provided any sources that the word is wrong. That numerous translators who spent years translating got the word wrong. All you have is your "understanding" from God.

I'll stick by my charge.

Then you have the audacity to compare me to a Pharisee.

Audacity???? Who was it who compared me to Satan in reply 122? Who was it in the very first post you pinged me to, accused me of making things up and listening to false teachers??? You got a lot of audacity yourself there pal.

Let's see...here is EXACTLY what I said:
"Words have meanings. You can't just make up new meanings to suit yourself and your ideology, unless of course you're a liberal or satan."

Let's break this statement down.

"Words have meanings." Check.
Yup, they do. Specific meanings.

"You can't just make up new meanings to suit yourself and your ideology," Check. That's exactly right.

" unless of course you're a liberal or satan." Check. And there we have the Satan comparison.

So, since you were offended by the Satan comparison, you're admitting to the previous part of the sentence, of making up new meanings to suit yourself and your ideology.

You can't have one without the other.

If you aren't just make up new meanings to suit yourself and your ideology, then the comparison to Satan would be inaccurate and there would be nothing to be offended about. But since you are offended...

Now here is where I can begin to agree with you, but only to a point.

I'll state this again - just for the record. I DO NOT subscribe to the tradition and doctrine that the "mark" in Revelation is a physical branding. Instead I understand "The mark" to be thinking (forehead) and acting (right hand) in support and submission to the Beast, which I understand to be an all-intrusive government power given power by Satan himself.

I have no problem with believing that people will think and act in accordance with the AC. But the Bible specifically describes a physical/action representation. Very much akin to baptism. A person is baptized as a physical action representing their belief/allegiance to Christ. You stated that the mark was not a physical mark...but RATHER a belief system. You are presenting it as one BUT NOT the other. AS FACT. You have nothing to present to anybody that your "understanding" is true or real. You are stating that the words used in the Bible are wrong, or don't mean what they say. And yet have nothing to back that up.

Cults are built upon people having "understanding" and teaching others their "understanding". (I am not calling you a cultist)

As far as the rest. It's an issue I'm dealing with.

I will agree its not a salvation issue.

[INVAR]

You are stating that the words used in the Bible are wrong, or don't mean what they say. And yet have nothing to back that up.

Cults are built upon people having "understanding" and teaching others their "understanding". (I am not calling you a cultist)

Then why make the statement at all if that was not your intent to imply it??

It's interesting that religionists like you ( and I know PLENTY) are so eager to attack other Christians who are not in lockstep with their "truths", but these same insistent Correctors Of The Faith rarely if ever stand up against hedonists and secularists pushing their agenda. I guess your kind thinks themselves safer attacking Christians than the wicked and the heathen.

The church in America is full of your ilk; insistent pushers of "new truth" or "Faith once delivered" doctrine, while the culture rots and the Gospel is no longer preached in places where the Name of Christ has yet to be heard.

Enjoy lecturing to yourself. I have no time or patience with self-anointed hubris pharisees like you.

[cva66snipe]

One thing in Revelation is interesting is chapter 4. The Twenty Four Elders robed in white and crowned {signifying they have been judged and rewarded}. This is before the actually tribulations begin. The Twenty Four are ones GOD has chosen but we don’t know who they are. Not to be known to us in this life. I doubt they are angelic beings.

[Kackikat]

There will be people saved during the Tribulation however that will not be easy for what they are facing. All Christians will not be raptured and will have to realize the sins they were living in is why they did not get to go, but they too get that one last chance to get it right.

Now if you do not get to go and there is a 7 year window with lots of painful struggles, don’t blame me, I tried to tell you to read the “parable of the ten virgins”...it should explain it to you. All were virgins, so that means all were Christians washed in blood, but......

[cva66snipe]

I am so screwed.

But you need not be. There is a solution and really despite all you hear & read it's simple. John ch 3 v 16 & 17.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him.

Christ Disciples the ones who were with him nearly three years and saw his miracles had trouble believing. We want to think of things in an adult frame of mind. To come to GOD the Father we need to come as a child does to a loving parent. A child that does wrong usually eventually tells the parent because of conscience. So must we to The Lord. No we don't have to shout our wrongs from the roof top or even tell others. Go into a place alone and confess sins in private. Mans teachings makes it so difficult when GOD's plan through Christ makes it so easy.

[Karl Spooner]

There are Kenites among us. Just like they were in the old covenant.