9/11 COVER-UP?

Facebook account of Shepard Smith ^ | April 13, 2015 150413 | Shepard Smith

[DoughtyOne]

Thank you Cronos, that dose improve on the perspective. I appreciate it.

[DoughtyOne]

You make a pretty good case.

[Cronos]

Sorry if I veered on the personal at times. I lived in Bahrain for years in the 80s and, while many Arabs are nice people -- just like anywhere else -- the ones outside Saudi Arabia all say the same "the Saudis cause these problems". It's important to understand why they say this and why you see pictures like this in the 70s in Afghanistan and Pakistan and they are such a contrast to today:

Afghanistan

or Pakistan

I knew a Moslem family whose mother and her mother had never worn a veil ever. Then when I met them again in the 2000s, the 60 year old mother was wearing a full burqa, covering her face. What happened here? The only thing was Saudi education. And I saw more and more of it -- in the gulf, in Pakistani and Indian peoples, in Indonesia, in France and England

The saud-wahabbi aim is to make Sunni Islam Wahabbi and then to slaughter everyone else -- that is their logic etc.

This is not rational, this is not like the US-Soviet impasse where one would not use nukes against the other for fear of retaliation. Pakistan happily says it does not agree with the no-first-use clause and will use nukes against India even if it is then wiped out. Why? Because it is the will of Allah.

Logical thinking does not work with this ilk

[DoughtyOne]

I get worked up. You get worked up. I have no problem with that. I appreciate your vantage point here. I leaned a lot from you. I’m glad to learn more about the region.

Keep sending notes.

[Cronos]

No worries -- it may have been nicer face to face

My worry is that the West underestimates Islam

Philosophy changes people -- pre-Christianity in Europe was a different way of thinking. I love history and one day want to write a book (perhaps a mystery book) about everyday life in Sumeria -- it would be something like the Caedwael series, you know an ordinary detective story, only it happens in a different time.

why? Because I think ancient Sumerian thinking must have been so incredibly different from ours -- think of it, generations (5,6, more) living in the same house for centuries, while around them there is desert, sea and very few people (population of the world circa 4000 BC would have been 10 million or less (since most were hunter-gatherers which gives a lower population capacity), with Indo-Europeans still a tiny tribe between the Caspian and Black Seas

But, I digress -- I mean, the people would think differently from us and even differently from a medieval person -- there would be no "change" -- "change is not good". There is continuity

Even today, the Christian and Islamic worlds think of time as an arrow while Hindu and Buddhist philosophy sees time as a circle

Islam had a chance in the 8th century to change with the Mu`tazila thought, but that was pushed out. Now the most radical Moslems believe that the world is recreated every minute by Allah, every minute, every second. Even the lesser radicalized don't see Allah playing by the rules of nature. This means that there is no IF-THEN idea in Islam, but just submit. It is a completely different way of thinking. We can't fathom it

Similarly about the separation of Church and State -- we see it now, even the most conservative but in Islam today and in the Middle ages, there was no such separation.

[DoughtyOne]

I understand your points about different thinking.

Sounds reasoned to me.

Your book sound interesting. Good thoughts there.

Thanks so much.

D1

[odds]

It’s a good reminder how things have so significantly changed in Pakistan and particularly Afghanistan, since the 1970s.

What happened in Lebanon before Mullahs took over in Iran, before there was any called hezbollah?

Who were the Taliban and how did they come to power, only to be bombed almost a decade later...

Why have the M.E. and N. Africa been transformed in just over 2 decades into pitholes??

Why has there been an exponential increase in refugees from the M.E. and N. Africa to the West in the last 13 yrs?

So many more questions unanswered.

Cronos, on a lighter nose.. um, note.. I remember some yrs ago we were talking about “arab bedouin nose” ... here is a demo of not-arab-bedouin-nose.. ehem Schnauze .. besides being “Sultans of Swing” :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0ffIJ7ZO4U

[Cronos]

ha ha :)

sharif don't like it...

[odds]

hey, just a note about Mark Knopfler in that clip, he is a brilliant guitarist, right up there with other guitarists like Jimmy Page & of course Jimi Hendrix.

Sharif must be jealous and envious! ;)

[caww]

I've just spent a good deal of time following the conversation between you both regarding Saudi and have to say insightful and very interesting to read. (You see Cronos there are times when I do find your posts very interesting and I do pay attention.)

The Idea that the Saudi leadership pays/distributes huge revenues to the Imams for their support (religious control of the people) and the Imams distribute it further, so very likely some in both the leaderships of each could easily arrange terrorist attacks as 9/11 without being directly associated with their perspective leaders. Like Rogue individuals with lots of money. ...or in fact perfectly aligned with as well.

At any rate the application of their “beliefs” run the same for both but they function outwardly differently in what they “do”....so they really hold each other up. One with Royal Empire Agendas to maintain and the other Religious Royalty before the people and control of the people so they don't turn on the House of Saud.......rather like a shared Empire acting as one.

Cronos I understand better but even so it just seems from your posts the Imams have more control....since they could turn the people against the Sauds using “religious reasons for doing so”.... But would they do so? What reason would they have?

[djf]

I love John B. Wells!

Even if 9 out of 10 of his shows are complete BS, the real one that remains ALWAYS cuts to the core!

[DoughtyOne]

Caww, I have appreciated Cronos comments and insights here also.

I’m still having a hard time believing that the highest levels of government know of the 09/11 attacks in advance, and either helped or approved.

Yes, the Saudi Leadership does spread the money around. That is what we would want most very wealthy nations to do.

This doesn’t mean they have inside knowledge on every 25 man operation, 19 here perhaps 6 there, in the kingdom.

Cronos observation that the Wahabbi sect “infects” other entities in the region is problematic.

Perhaps Cronos can address this, but I’ve watched Saudi Arabia from afar, and in the days when openly vivid and vicious hatred for the U. S. was much more visible than it is today from the governments in the region, the Saudi government did intercede for the U. S. with the oil cartels.

Why would they do that when they could have had far more profit, and could have weakened us at the same time?

I’m still not buying that the Saudi government is extremely anti-U.S.

[MHGinTN]

To figure it out, that our government is lying through their bloody fingers to you, just look at the lie about what slammed into the Pentagon and the cover-up of the controlled demolition of bldg. seven. Once you realize ‘they’ have been not only lying yo the people but doing psy-ops on US to cover something up, you will see the issues very differently.

[DoughtyOne]

I plan on going back and looking at that video you linked me to.

It’s a mammoth video and I haven’t wanted to spend that much time yet.

I will.

[MHGinTN]

I applaud your intention ... so many will not even hint to endanger their normalcy bias. But then I suppose only string minds should risk openness. I applaud you.

[caww]

Thank you for your response...

I think because the Saud family is huge (hundreds) they can't possibly monitor every member so there's really no telling who might operate independently or if or not anti-American, I tend to think some are lower doeeen in the rank and file.

...Even so, I agree that those higher up, and certainly closer knit, have not indicated from what I've seen and heard they are anti-American........ I suppose it could also depend on how close each member adheres to the call for Jihad against non-Muslims or the infidels........ The Imam clerics consistently cry that it's the "duty" of all Muslims to abide by Mohamed's directives regarding non-Muslims..... they all 'believe' Islam must conquer the world...the only difference is how they see that might be accomplished. Additionally One can't ignore the Saudi Government does indeed spread their brand of Islam worldwide, weather they believe in it or not they do believe their form of 'Islam 'controls' the masses'.

I agree with Cronos that attempting to understand how the Clergy and the Governance work between themselves is no easy task to figure out....THEY even have issues communicating their intentions between themselves....how could it be any other way when their religion permits deception and lying as acceptable, especially when the bigger picture is in mind that Islam must one day rule all....they all fear one another in one form or another.

As for 9/11 ....clearly the planes caused the towers to fall. I think it's just pointless to try and say explosives etc. that regardless of how it's been presented......and I doubt very much the Saudi leadership knowingly financed that....but that doesn't mean possible someone on down the line didn't....or/and some in the clergy. Muslim loyalties can change on a dime and for numerous reasons each can justify themselves for doing so....even if just temporary.

[DoughtyOne]

In fairness, I don’t think Cronos is quite as convinced the government didn’t know about it as you and I are. I’m not trying to put words in his mouth, and if he differs from my perception, I welcome him correcting my perception.

I appreciate your response. I think we’re in agreement, and in truth Cronos may agree too. I’m not quite sure either way.

I watch folks go nuts attacking Islamic entities. Some of them are very valid targets for ridicule.

The leadership in Iran is certainly worthy of taking to task. The rank and file that wanted to topple the current government of Iran, not so much.

I think there is plenty to criticize in Saudi Arabia too, but I’m not comfortable with the idea the King and the top echelons of government are anti-U. S.

Take care.

[caww]

As for people attaching Islamic entities...Saudi included....you can understand why that is.

But I think there are some Islamic Gov. Leaders who are more focused at retaining their positions and revenues then they are of conquering the world......though they’d certainly jump on the band wagon of a Caliphat under their control.

The moving party in the East is Iran.....SAudi seems to be simply responding to what they perceive as threats to their power.

[odds]

>>>”Even so, I agree that those higher up, and certainly closer knit, have not indicated from what I’ve seen and heard they are anti-American.”<<<

We tend to use the term “Anti-American” liberally, generically, and without qualification. The slightest criticism can be labelled as “Anti-American”; just as one can label Any criticism of others or specific issues as “racist” and “Anti-Islam”.

What many, within Saudi gov’t & royalty, even people like OBL primarily oppose are certain U.S. government foreign policy, as well as exporting (be it indirectly) “American values” (western or american style democracy and freedoms), which don’t sit well with their Islamic gov’t, Islamic values, and Islamic teachings they fund outside Saudi Arabia.

For the latter, ie exporting American values to Saudi Arabia, obviously it will never be well-received, even by the highest levels of Saudi gov’t and the king; otherwise, they wouldn’t be actively curtailing freedoms and silencing pro-democracy & freedom opposition groups (no matter how small in size) inside Saudi Arabia.

Of course, the Saudis have no problem should Others, other gov’ts in the M.E. region, be overthrown under the banner of democracy, only to be replaced by an Islamic-style gov’t (or an absolute theocracy such as their own), particularly the Saudi brand of Islam. In fact they’d support it.

I think it is more accurate to say the Saudi gov’t is more pro-Islam & Islamic (wahhabi) values, than generically “Anti-American”, at least publicly and for now.

[DoughtyOne]

Cronos thinks Saudi Arabia and Wahhabism in particular has been corrupting Islam in the region making it more radical.

He may be right. I don’t have a way of knowing what the Saudi Wahhabis have been up to with regard to that.