Trump Goes Mushy, Incoherent on Immigration (gee, who coulda seen this?)

Breitbart ^ | 7-30-15 | Ben Shapiro

[C. Edmund Wright]

Has Donald Trump made his first serious boo-boo of the campaign?

For weeks, the media have trumpeted the supposed death of the Trump campaign. First, they claimed, Trump’s campaign imploded on launch thanks to his comments about illegal immigration. Then they claimed that Trump was finished because of his slap at Senator Sen. John McCain (R-AZ)43% ’s (R-AZ) war service. But neither of those comments alienated Trump’s base – he’s maintained his seven point lead over Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker in the 2016 presidential polls, with no other candidate breaking double-digits in the polls. In fact, his original comments about illegal immigration launched his candidacy to prominence, with many Americans relieved that a major candidate had finally touched the media third rail and talked openly about illegal immigrant criminality.

Now, however, Trump may have damaged himself with the very people excited by his candidacy. Asked point blank about his immigration policy, Trump dropped the brashness and the blurting, and suddenly went completely Hillary-vague on CNN. After blathering about deporting criminal illegal immigrants – even President Obama pays lip service to this idea – Trump continued:

[entropy12]

The welfare should be removed for US Citizens also.
Why mow other people’s lawn’s on a hot summer day, or flip hamburgers, or clean restrooms, or pick fruit, when the government gives you all these benefits for NOT working?

Why bother to work??

FREE Medicaid, 60 Million people and
more millions becoming eligible under Obamacare

FREE Food stamps for 48 Million
$800/month family of 4

FREE Breakfast & Lunch at schools
FREE Rent subsidy
FREE Heat subsidy
FREE or Subsidized Obamacare (87% who joined)
FREE Obama phones
FREE Contraceptives
FREE Mammograms
FREE Abortions
FREE Pre-natal care & delivery
FREE Transportation to medical facility
FREE Translators for non-English speaking
FREE Lawyers for the indigent
FREE Pell Grants
FREE Daycare

FREE CASH! Under the Family
Independence (FI) program the takers
are given a charged debit card.

Supplementary Social Security checks
for senior immigrants even if they have
never worked 1 hour in USA.

[Jane Long]

THAT ^^ is exactly what I’m talkin’ about. Hope Trump hits on this....at some point. We’re sick and tired of paying for all of this, too.

[kabar]

Another take would be to remove ALL welfare from those here illegally, as well as from those who CAN work, but aren’t (means testing, time limits, etc.).

Illegal aliens cannot get welfare by law. They obtain food stamps and other benefits thru their US born children who are citizens thru birthright citizenship. SCOTUS has ruled that ERs must treat illegals who get these services free. Some states, like CA, do provide benefits to illegals.

I doubt that most of what you propose would be passed. The Dems won't allow it.

Table 6 shows that the overall high welfare use rate for immigrant households with children is not simply due to legal status. Both legal and illegal immigrants tend to make use of the welfare system. Illegal immigrant households with children primarily use food assistance and Medicaid, making almost no use of cash and housing programs. In contrast, legal immigrant households with children tend to have relatively high use for every type of program. In addition to legal status, Table 6 also reports welfare use for different types of legal and illegal households. The Department of Homeland Security estimates that more than half of all illegal immigrants come from Mexico.22 The table shows that households with children headed by Mexican illegal immigrants tend to have somewhat higher welfare use rates than do illegal immigrant households with children from all countries. As for legal immigrants, Table 6 shows that the inclusion of refugee-sending countries in the data does not make much difference to overall welfare use rates for legal immigrant households with children. Use rates for households headed by legal immigrants from non-refugee-sending countries are very similar to those for legal immigrant households when refugees are included. Refugee-sending countries are a small share of the total and, as we have seen, their use rates are not different enough from non-refugees to impact the overall results in a meaningful way.

[DungeonMaster]

At the risk of being simplistic, has anyone ever proposed to pay illegals to leave. We’re paying to have them stay, give each illegal 10K to go back home.

How about if you leave the doors on your house wide open and advertise how much great stuff you have there, then as people walk in you pay them to promise not to do it anymore? It sounds like you are willing to pay them each time they walk in, or do you trust the name they give you as they collect their check?

[kabar]

All true, except for the fact that NONE of the candidates except Donald Trump even mention the word DEPORT anywhere. In other words no one is for deporting ALL the illegalsi>

See my post #225.

The choice is not between a blanket amnesty or mass deportation. Attrition thru enforcement is the solution. The proponents of amnesty like to create this false choice so that once you realize the logistics and costs involved in deporting ALL the lawbreakers, you must legalize their presence. Phony strawman.

[C. Edmund Wright]

All I know is the 23 years and tens of thousands of job applications I took in the contract trades....which is probably 23 years more than you and tens of thousands of applications more than you have taken.

Almost 98% of the applicants were Hispanic....some legal, some not....but almost no one white or black even inquired. And it was often impossible to tell the difference. E Verify will change that, but that’s very new development.

Also, most of those asking to be paid under the table were either inner city blacks or country boy whites.

This is why I believe what I believe...because I know what I know and I lived what I lived. why would I lie? So I can get flamed by a bunch of folks on FR who’ve never in their life had to meet a labor blue collar payroll? Dear Lord get your chicken and egg order straight.

And by the way, we paid above market. Our payroll expense was higher than is normal for the industry. It’s the welfare and EBT and other benefits that are making the wages skewed just as much as the alternative...which isn’t as cheap as you think.

[C. Edmund Wright]

Actually you are providing the straw man......there are many of us who do not think it’s either deport or legalization. We agree with you that attrition is the key....where you and I disagree is on where to start the attrition. I would start with the government....the hand outs. Why? Because these are far more damaging to our economy than the workers. AND because it was government that caused the problem....business is normally trying to survive the government caused problems (Ch of Commerce types notwithstanding....).

[Jane Long]

Right. Thus, the cut-off for those here illegally, as well as means testing/time limits for ALL others....including those here LEGALLY.

It would serve a dual purpose. Those here illegally would tend to self-deport, once benefits (we should also cut off anchor baby laws) are stopped, and those here legally and/or citizens would have to find work, once their entitlements (I can’t stand that term) are discontinued.

[free_life]

No thanks. Why would anyone want a book written by a guy who can’t separate fact from fiction.? A guy who is selling Yeb Bush? The nomination will be either Trump or Bush and all your effort is anti-Trump, that results in Yeb Loser Bush vs Hillary. If you can’t figure that out how brilliant can you book be?

Maybe Hilliary will send you a copy of her book for all your help in getting her elected.

[C. Edmund Wright]

By the way, very widely reviewed as positive...only some liberal trolls giving it a one pulled down what would have been a solid 4.75 rating out of 5 among conservatives. Probably been read by Trumps people, has definitely been read by Cruz people.

The point is, you are an abject sociopathic lying piece of scum....the lowest of the low kind of poster troll - devoid of any facts - without nearly the cred of the one you are arguing with. So, either come up with ANY post I've ever made PRO YEB or PRO ROVE or PRO BUSH or PRO ESTABLISHMENT or you can go have:

[kabar]

All I know is the 23 years and tens of thousands of job applications I took in the contract trades....which is probably 23 years more than you and tens of thousands of applications more than you have taken. Almost 98% of the applicants were Hispanic....some legal, some not....but almost no one white or black even inquired. And it was often impossible to tell the difference. E Verify will change that, but that’s very new development.

I will take the Bureau of the Census data over your anecdotal information. How do you differentiate between an Hispanic and a white or black? Almost 50% of Hispanics self-desribe themselves as white. Do you have a one drop rule for Hispanics?

This is why I believe what I believe...because I know what I know and I lived what I lived. why would I lie? So I can get flamed by a bunch of folks on FR who’ve never in their life had to meet a labor blue collar payroll? Dear Lord get your chicken and egg order straight.

That's the precisely problem. You generalize from your own experience. It is similar to the bubbles that the elites live in on both coasts and in Inside the Beltway in DC where I lived for 36 years. Flyover country is some sort of mystery. Reminds me of the Pauline Kael quote: "How could Nixon have won? Nobody I know voted for him"; referring to George McGovern's loss to Richard Nixon in in the 1972 presidential election.

[C. Edmund Wright]

go mow the grass and make the bed and leave me and reality alone.....

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

[kabar]

...where you and I disagree is on where to start the attrition. I would start with the government....the hand outs.

What handouts and to whom? You need to change laws like birthright citizenship and overturn SCOTUS decisions like Plyler vs Doe. We have plenty of laws that can be enforced that will result in deportation. There are over 600,000 absconders running around the country. They have been ordered by the immigration court to deport, but they haven't. The vast majority of the "kids" who entered last summer have never showed up for their court hearings.

In 2010 the The National Immigration and Customs Enforcement Council and its constituent local representatives from around the nation, acting on behalf of approximately 7,000 ICE officers and employees from the ICE Office of Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO), cast a unanimous “Vote of No Confidence” in the Director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), John Morton, and the Assistant Director of the ICE Office of Detention Policy and Planning, (ODPP), Phyllis Coven.

This is unprecedented, yet scarcely anyone knows about it. The union mentioned among other things:

While ICE reports internally that more than 90 percent of ICE detainees are first encountered in jails after they are arrested by local police for criminal charges, ICE senior leadership misrepresents this information publicly in order to portray ICE detainees as being non-criminal in nature to support the Administration's position on amnesty and relaxed security at ICE detention facilities.

• The majority of ICE ERO Officers are prohibited from making street arrests or enforcing United States immigration laws outside of the institutional (jail) setting. This has effectively created "amnesty through policy" for anyone illegally in the United States who has not been arrested by another agency for a criminal violation.

[kabar]

including those here LEGALLY.

You mean those with green cards or naturalized? Or native born American citizens? Good luck on that. We have 80 million on Medicaid and 47 million on food stamps. They constitute a powerful voting bloc along with the Dem party, which would stop any efforts to do what you propose.

[kabar]

Just as I expected a non-answer. Just some snide comments. I

FYI: I don't mow my own lawn. I pay a landscaper to do that.

[tsowellfan]

There are criteria used to ferret out nationals of these countries who do not intend to leave once their visas expire. These countries have high visa refusal rates.

Actually I said VISAS should be easier (not easy) to get for many of those countries not listed in the 38 that have waived VISA requirements.

Many people in that list of 38 countries who have waived VISA requirements are also here in the United States illegally. Even though their VISA requirement has been waived they still have a time limit (normally 3-6 months)before they must return to their home nation. Well, they have not.

Eventually every country's' nationals will have a high rate of overstaying their VISA or Tourist Card (where a VISA requirement has been waived) if we do not enforce the laws already in the books.

Our government has been sending mixed messages out there to the world. We have laws on the books, yet the government places bread trails and bottled water along the border and a booklet listing the sanctuary cities where the law breakers will be protected.

Again, everything you stated comes back to our government and its refusal to enforce the laws, punish both the illegals and any American/American Employer assisting the illegal to either come here or stay here with hefty fines and/or long jail time.

[kabar]

Actually I said VISAS should be easier (not easy) to get for many of those countries not listed in the 38 that have waived VISA requirements

Why? I provided you the reasons why it is more difficult to get a visa depending upon what country you are talking about. Be specific about what countries it should be "easier." Name a country.

Eventually every country's' nationals will have a high rate of overstaying their VISA or Tourist Card (where a VISA requirement has been waived) if we do not enforce the laws already in the books.

No. There are many countries where the people receiving the visas prefer to return home rather than live illegally in the US. The visa wavier program has been growing reflecting that reality.

Our government has been sending mixed messages out there to the world. We have laws on the books, yet the government places bread trails and bottled water along the border and a booklet listing the sanctuary cities where the law breakers will be protected.

Agree. And the biggest message sent is that if you get here illegally, you will be given amnesty at some point. When you reward something, you get more of it.

[C. Edmund Wright]

no, the BLS stats are snapshots...I bet my universe is bigger than their sample.

But I wouldn’t expect you to know that.

[C. Edmund Wright]

I agree totally on birthright citizenship - which means I probably agree with you on Plyler (not familiar off top of head).

[entropy12]

Right now I am happy to accept locating all criminally violent illegals and deport them first. Only candidate with a chance to win nomination who is talking about it is Donald Trump.

And building a wall...again only candidate with a chance to win nomination who is talking about it is Donald Trump.

Is Bush talking about it?
Is Walker talking about it?
Is Rubio talking about it?
Is Carson talking about it?
Is Cruz talking about it?
Is Paul talking about it?

Donald Trump started talking about the murdering, raping illegals. I give him his due.