Posted on 09/24/2015 9:49:55 AM PDT by LonePalm
Life is cheap among the followers of allah..
Exactly.
Report claims Prince Salman was accompanied by a huge entourage, including 200 army and 150 police officers, which prompted officials to change the movement of pilgrims.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/963156/saudi-princes-convoy-triggered-hajj-stampede-report/
Religion of incompetence?
The story I heard, was that the buses were late picking up the African pilgrims and after an hour or 2 of waiting, they decided to start walking. When they got to a narrowed congested area, they were met in the opposite direction by pilgrims leaving and there wasn’t enough room for people to travel in both directions and that’s when the chaos began
You would think after ALL these years and past stampedes that they’d have this down to science by now.
Apparently they’re on a very slow learning curve.
I found several unusually thoughtful ideas in the comments at this site regarding accident prevention at all mass crowd events: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/saudi-arabian-hajj-stampede-death-toll-rises-150926130030311.html
There is also lively and even vitriolic competitive comments here. Also as an Al Jazeera site, consider cross comment by Muslims and non-Muslims.
MUHAMMED KAHN
By the grace of Allah (SWT) I performed Hajj in 2006 when same type of incident happened causing death of nearly 400 and injured 700 , most of the injured had permanent disability. As an witness of 2006 catastrophe I want to share my experience as follows.
After finishing the rituals at Arafat and Muzdalefa we planned to start stoning at the biggest Zamarat at about 8.00 AM . When our team reached the place close to the starting point we were stopped due to the fact that a group of dignitaries from some Muslim countries as royal guest of KSA were stoning and a barricade was created by Saudi police. I observed from the distance that STOP sign with different language including Bangla was flushing. After about three hours , when a huge crowed of Hajjis gathered , the barricade was withdrawn and suddenly a big crowd jumped into towards” One pathway” ignoring the Stop sign ( Subsequently it was increased to 3/4 levels pathways ) to perform the ritual and within few minutes hundreds of people were stampeded and injured. Even in my team some Hajjis was so enthusiastic and emotional to start running but by the will of Allah, with my intervention they were finally stopped. After further few hours when the bodies of deceased and injured were removed we finished stoning and went to Mecca for Towaf e Ziarat safely.
Now I find a relationship between these two catastrophes that “ halting the flow of Hajjis for any reason ( as happened during 2006) created panic among them due to the time constraint of finishing stoning and going to Mekka for Tawaf within stipulated time was a great factor causing these two saddest incident. Whatever comes out of the investigation , as a normal Muslim, it is my humble suggestion that if the Hajj authority can not avoid stoning at Zamarat separately by the so called high profile dignitaries , ( though , I am not sure permissibility of such in Islam ) they can make an alternate Entry and Exit for them either by constructing Rope way/Gondola or a hanging Helipad , so that those people can perform the ritual without closing any Entry or Exit point to the Zamarat. Even a separate level designated to those type of Hajjis, on safety reason, may be created.
In addition a awareness training has to be made effective at all levels involving the Hajj pilgrims so that this Fard ritual is performed in safe and logical way to ensure acceptance of Allah (SWT). May Allah bestow His profound mercy to the deceased , the injured and consolation to the members who lost their nearest and dearest one. Ameen.
JOE SOPRANO to Muhammed,
if I summarize your point, you associate the risk of stampedes with two main factors:
1) privilege given to dignitaries to execute the stoning before the others;
2) strong excitement and a general lack of discipline or self-control of the pilgrims.
However substantial these points are (and precious, since they come from your direct experience of the Hajj), we are forced to acknowledge that both are quite difficult and sensitive to handle:
1) would require to change UAE into a liberal democracy with no political and social privilege and with a global equality of people, included in the religious domain;
2) would require a global improvement of education standards in the Muslim world.
The first point should involve a political reformism or a factual revolution in the Saudi kingdom.
The second point would imply higher rates of access to education in Muslim world, which could not go without the spread of gender policies and a global improvement of women social conditions in the same countries.
Both are real needs; both are unfortunately not ready to occur within a short space of time.
But let’s hope that progresses will move on, while gradual political and social improvements will follow.
CHRIS LEWIS (starting with 2nd paragraph)
Your first point - special casing for dignitaries is fairly simple to fix. The organizers set up their plan for the day, visually check that all the barricades/signs/routing are in place each day, and don’t change them for any reason whatsoever. If a dignitary wants to participate, they must either be in the same crowd as every one else, be able to access/egress without interfering with the crowd in ANY way, OR, you book it well ahead of time and integrate it with the daily plan. There simply is NO WAY you can change plans mid-stream with that many people. Doesn’t matter whether it’s a stoning ritual in Mecca, or letting people into a stadium to watch a soccer match. You just do NOT change plans once they’re running. If you do, people die. Full stop. Doesn’t matter what religion or what government they have.
Your second point misses the point entirely. This has nothing whatsoever to do with Muslims. It’s the same “enthusiasm” you see in a lineup for the first showing of a new Star Wars movie, a black friday sale, or a new iPhone launch. The only reason why they don’t turn into huge disasters is because the number of people is hundreds or thousands of times less. These don’t just happen in Muslim countries. They happen in the US, in England, Singapore, India etc. During the coronation of Czar Nicholas II, 1400 people died in the crush of gifts being given out. During new years fireworks in Singapore, 250 people died. During a soccer game in Hillsborough England, almost 100 people died. Each a result of poor planning, plans that weren’t verified, or plans that were changed mid-steam. Hillsborough happened because the crowd was directed through an access tunnel, and the access tunnel gate at the far end was closed and they didn’t get it open in time.
My thoughts: We have just seen huge crowds greeting the Pope in an atmosphere love and caring for one another—no significant crowd incidents. On the other hand, examples are given of significant numbers of deaths at the stoning of Satan (significant pent up anger), sports events (anger), and a coronation with gifts distributed (poverty and greed)—negative emotions set stage for significant death toll. More love and understanding needed worldwide.
The best way to prevent the hundreds of deaths that occur pretty much every year during the Hajj is to rid the world of Islam. Until that time, hundreds of accidental deaths among its pilgrims doesn't sound like a problem to me.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.