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Posted on 02/17/2016 9:53:55 PM PST by TroutStalker
Last month, some of President Obama's top intelligence advisers met in Silicon Valley with Apple's chief, Timothy D. Cook, and other technology leaders in what seemed to be a public rapprochement in their long-running dispute over the encryption safeguards built into their devices.
But behind the scenes, relations were tense, as lawyers for the Obama administration and Apple held closely guarded discussions for over two months about one particularly urgent case: The F.B.I. wanted Apple to help "unlock" an iPhone used by one of the two attackers who killed 14 people in San Bernardino, Calif., in December, but Apple was resisting.
When the talks collapsed, a federal magistrate judge, at the Justice Department's request, ordered Apple to bypass security functions on the phone. The order set off a furious public battle on Wednesday between the Obama administration and one of the world's most valuable companies in a dispute with far-reaching legal implications.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
“The FBI has the phone that has the data, but cannot access it. The FBI is claiming that they can force Apple to create a new product that will allow them to brute force the PIN without the data being erased. Whether or not such a tool can be created, I don’t know - it depends upon how the software has been coded, if there are vulnerabilities that can be exploited.”
I know all of that. You keep insisting that Apple has no program, I keep asking how do you know that and you don’t say. When a warrant is issued the person has to do better than “I don’t have it.” They are subject to search. What about this aren’t you getting? Or do you think they don’t have it because they say so and why would they lie? No way they built this phone without a key. No one believes that.
I know what you mean about Trumpers. They can’t defend him because he has no trail of consistent ideas to defend (see my tag line.)
Apple Unlocked iPhones for the Feds 70 Times Before
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3398556/posts
Good grief. OK, you win. Let’s throw out the Constitution, tell the Courts that if the guy says he hasn’t got it must be true, piss on the fire and call in the dogs. I’ve heard enough for one night. They do have probable cause. Someone who has ever worked in a communications firm would know that at some point...gasp...someone would use it to do something awful bad. Those miserable humps that gunned down those people left evidence behind we can’t access BECAUSE Apple refuses to co-operate in retrieving the evidence. The Government OF COURSE has probable cause to believe they have a key. And if they do NOT want to produce it the Feds have every right to search for it. Indentured servitude. Good grief. I though Obama was the biggest threat to the Constitution. It’s the people. We’ve reached a point where the laws don’t apply anymore.
You are't getting it - the FBI is not asking to search Apple's records to see if they have such a tool and are hiding it - they are admitting that Apple does not have such a tool. Read their pleading with the court and the court's order. They are asking that Apple be forced to CREATE such a tool.
The FBI isn’t ‘searching’ for anything as they have no probable cause of any crime committed by Apple. They want Apple to design a custom firmware load that will allow:
1)Any number of password attempts. No “10 wrong and you’re done” auto-wipe.
2)Any means of entering them. No “must key them on the screen.”
This then means the FBI can attempt to “brute force” the password using a computer over the USB interface and, they demanded, any other means such as Wifi, cellular or Bluetooth!
The latter would mean that for the future they would not even have to physically posses the device. They could hack it when they wanted, from anywhere, at any time.
Bingo!
The clueless media is nattering about back doors. But back doors are only applicable to future products, not existing products, which were designed in Cupertino and built in China but without a back door in mind — exactly the opposite, in fact!
Apple's phone is designed to counteract hackers by erasing itself after ten bad password guesses. Apple is being asked to prevent that behavior somehow, so that the FBI can maybe brute-force the password by trying zillions of passwords until they find one that works.
Thus, in order for Apple to comply with the court's order, it must find a bug in its own design that would allow the ten password limit to be bypassed or, ideally, that would allow the encrypted data to be extracted and attacked in a forensically sterile, lab environment without having to interact with the phone's original firmware.
If Apple's original design is correct, they will be unable to comply with the court's order. If they succeed in complying, then they've got a bug to fix before I'll buy one!
Individuals and businesses demanded strong encryption in Apple's latest iterations of its mobile OS, and Apple delivered. If it were to be discovered that Apple created a backdoor into their operating system their stock would crash and sales would plummet. The FBI's only hope is that the terrorists used a weak password like "Jihad", "Allah", or "DurkaDurka".
Mathematically-strong encryption rests on the premise that nobody can break it which is why Apple would be hesitant to even contemplate such a move. As soon as one introduces the ability to violate that premise, the security of every device using it, now and forever, is compromised. A good communications device rests on the premise that you have absolute control of that tool. Apple would be committing business suicide by violating their encryption design.
If that were the case for Syed, then there is no reason to limit the password guesses to ten. Because, if Syed, inshallah, had chosen a strong password, all the NSA's cores would fail to find it in this universe's lifetime.
But, if Syed were a normal luser (that's 'user' in leet-speak), he'd pick a four- or six-digit password. That wouldn't faze Frank Baker India for long. So, to protect average lusers, Apple introduced the ten guesses before self-destruct behavior. It is that behavior the FBI wants Apple to bypass, in the hope that Syed was indeed a luser.
Introducing a back-door is a whole different question. That would require legislation and would affect future products and firmware updates. If passed, the result would be, the lusers would lose, but the hackers would just use their own end-to-end inner layer.
A good communications device rests on the premise that you have absolute control of that tool. Apple would be committing business suicide by violating their encryption design.
Absolutely!
“You are’t getting it - the FBI is not asking to search Apple’s records to see if they have such a tool and are hiding it - they are admitting that Apple does not have such a tool. Read their pleading with the court and the court’s order. They are asking that Apple be forced to CREATE such a tool.”
I think the whole idea of giving the underworld and in the time of terror threats all over the world the most hideous idea ever concieved. We lost MILLIONS when the fcking Germans had enigma.
OK. One last time. If they want to cough it up they can. If they don’t want to cough it up, they can come up with some other resolution. It’s called negotiation. Ask the Donald...he does know about this stuff and I will concede that in deals, he does know what he’s talking about...it happens all the time. They can say they don’t have it all they want. You can not prove they do, you offer them another alternative. They rethink it and give it up.
Or, they begrudgingly do it....wink, wink...and remain heroes for freedom. It’s theater. You do NOT build something that can have enormous impact on the world that can not be controlled or you will ultimately be held responsible for YOUR creation.
Brakes fail. People are killed. The company is told to fix it. They can’t fix THAT system, they recall them all and install a new one. This isn’t rocket unprecedented. It is moral and ethical responsibility, not exactly an Apple asset. It is not just...oh well, we created this thing here that could give every drug dealer, rapist, murderer or Jihadist free reign to do what ever the fck they want to and never fear being caught and there is no fail safe.
I do not know how else to say it. If you can not control it, take it back, because it is not a contribution, it is not subject to inspection, repair or any type of responsible Product Management.
Sorry, but that’s the way it is. The government is doing its job FINALLY and these assholes at Apple think they can just say no. They can, but it won’t be without a penalty. And that is as it should be. This secret encryption self destruction mode is not a practical function. it’s a new age. Threats abound. This would increase them immeasurably. Ask the families of all the dead what they think of this bullshit.
On the contrary, the Kraut's lost big because we were copying Enigma, and they didn't know it!
The government is doing its job FINALLY and these assholes at Apple think they can just say no. They can, but it won’t be without a penalty. And that is as it should be. This secret encryption self destruction mode is not a practical function. it’s a new age. Threats abound. This would increase them immeasurably. Ask the families of all the dead what they think of this bullshit.
Apple offers a product useful to me, a secure, smart phone! (My E815's battery is failing — time to buy a smart phone!)
The fact that terrorists might also use secure smart phones is troubling. But, hey, terrorists also use guns, and guns, which can kill people, are protected by the 2nd, which I support!
Bottom line: my privacy is first. Terrorism is best fought by relaxing the Rules of Engagement!
If all the gov’t wants is the contact info, just give the phone to Apple who will work privately with no gov’t supervision to obtain the info. Apple gives the info to the FBI and everyone is happy. Easy.
BUT THIS IS ABOUT MUCH MORE AND STATED BY MANY ABOVE.
The feds already have it. This is game being played by Apple and FBI to lull the investigation targets while they're being tracked.
All the commotion also helps provide pretext to the admin and Congress to bring in the new mandatory backdoors for all phones and PCs. Although most devices and operating systems already have backdoors, the genuinely secure devices are still legal and that is what annoys the rulers.
That the Fed’s want Apple to give them the technology to unlock any i-phone, not just this one, is also my understanding.
That relevant fact seems to be unmentioned by many folks weighing in on this.
Something doesn’t seem right about this.. Tim Cooke and Obama are on the same side. I quit Apple the instant Cooke started blathering.. Which was sad.. I am a long time Apple fan.
This smells like Cooke is trying to win people back.. Kinda like trump hoping everyone forgets his record. Well I remember, and I call absolute bs.
I am not sure who your Candidate is, or what Trump, has to do with this since he is a Private Citizen. I did hear Cruz, at the CNN town hall last night, say Apple should be forced to comply with the judge’s order.
Knowing that Apple can unlock the encryption for my phone doesn't make me feel any better than knowing that the government can't. I don't trust Apple any more than I trust Barack Obama.
No.no.no....evil precedent if so...the fact that they are telegraph every step like this is just like 0bama telling that we are sending in 500 troops...
If they want it cracked then send in CIA guys or Kevin Mitnik or equivalent...this is purposeful hammering even a liberal corporation because profit is evil to them.
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