Free Trade and the De-Industrialization of the United States

economyincrisis ^ | 4/5/16 | McKenna Service Company

[central_va]

Manufacturing was the economic growth engine of United States. It helped to create the high paying jobs, improved living standards, national wealth, military might, and tax revenues. Unfortunately, there has been a dramatic decline in the above scenario for the United States in the 21st century. The U.S is rapidly turning into non-Super Power second rate country.

Manufacturing is the basis for research and development and National Defense and once represented more than 28% of the jobs in the U.S. Although the absolute number of jobs in American manufacturing was rather constant at about 17 million from 1969 to 2002, manufacturing’s share of jobs has continued to decline from about 28% in 1962 to only 8% in 2014.

[central_va]

The Clinton Administration’s two flagship trade agreements (NAFTA and PNTR ) were misrepresented to the American people as bringing millions of jobs and higher prosperity to the United States. History and reality regarding these policies now show that they debased and destroyed U.S. manufacturing and the private sector.

[central_va]

ping

[sickoflibs]

Don’t forget automation and computerization.

Many millions of jobs replaced by computers and computer guided mechanics, like self checkouts at stores.

And who designs them??

Immigrants from India and China who get their degrees here.

[DugwayDuke]

In 1870, 70% of the US population were farmers. In 2008, only 2%. Should we have ‘protected’ those farming jobs?

[baltimorepoet]

Or how about how the Chinese have no respect for intellectual property? Consider the case of Segway, which was alleging patent infringement by Chinese-company Ninebot.

What was Ninebot’s response to this? They simply purchased Segway.

This is the future folks. We’re f*#*ed unless Americans wake up. On the positive side, Europe will probably beat the US to the collapse by 5-10 years.

American capitalists are gladly selling the rope from which they will be hung, to the enemies of America.

But hey, as Thomas Jefferson once said “Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.”

[baltimorepoet]

In 1870, 70% of the US population were farmers. In 2008, only 2%. Should we have ‘protected’ those farming jobs?

Only if the jobs that replaced them were worse, like plantation slavery.

What is your solution to China's violation of intellectual property rights? The one thing we might have an edge over China with (inventions, high-tech, new stuff) and China cheats and steals and counterfeits.

Your solution to China's Ninebot buying Segway after Ninebot commited patent violation against Segway?

I'm all in favor of free trade when it is actually balanced, doesn't involve the bending over and grabbing the ankles.

And as far as this TPP is concerned, the military has a term: BOHICA.

Bend over, here it comes again.

[bert]

Some manufacturing in America became unsustainable when the products were not salable because they were to expensive.

The rest of the world finally got over WW II and developed competition that made American manufacturing

Isolationists can not grasp the concept that there is a big world and that markets are global on nature

[IronJack]

According to Wikipedia, US imports from China quadrupled from 2000 to 2015. The export of that much American wealth cannot help but erode our domestic economy.

[bert]

Absent the imported goods, the economy would not be functioning at all

[Tilted Irish Kilt]

Loss of your manufacturing base results in an inability to make your own defensive, or offensive weapons
remember the Japanese lack of materials , the imposed embargoes and tariffs that led up to the attack on Pearl Harbor ?
(ie.: rubber , petroleum , steel, etc)

[InterceptPoint]

I'm really no expert on this subject but a few facts are worth reviewing.

1. Manufacturing Employment is going to decline due to productivity improvements and automation. This is a pretty long historical trend. Employment growth in the U.S. is not going to come from the Manufacturing Sector.

2. China has passed us in total manufacturing output. They are a country with something like 5 times our population a huge number of which are employed in the manufacturing sector. Japan, Germany and every other country are way behind the U.S. and China. And we run circles around the Chinese when you compare output per employee. It is not even close.

There is a counter argument with a more positive outlook for U.S. Manufacturing in THIS ARTICLE from late 2014. The article includes the two charts below. The first shows the decline in manufacturing employment. The second shows the recovery from 2008 and the historical growth in manufacturing sales. Looking at that charts tells me that we are pretty much back on track in terms of the historical increases in our manufacturing output -despite Obama and the generally lower employment numbers.

[GraceG]

Normally I am against Huge tariffs, however, i think we need to start at home...

If we started Removing our own internal TARIFFs called Domestic Overregulation and Overtaxation and we could start making widgets here, employing people here to make stuff than can sent out to countries that china is currently sending crap too.

We could even open up rare-earth mining which means we could supply our domestic industries with rare earths and even send material to Japan and S. Korea..... But that would require the EPA stop over regulation...

I would be okay with a minor increase in Tariffs, but we would HAVE TO reduce our OWN INTERNAL TARIFFS simultaneously.

[IronJack]

Right. Just like it wasn’t functioning before PNTR.

[Buckeye McFrog]

In 1870, 70% of the US population were farmers. In 2008, only 2%. Should we have ‘protected’ those farming jobs?

Those ex-farmers spent the first half of the 20th. Century flocking into cities to take industrial jobs. Where do you propose that they go next?

[bert]

We have a major explosives manufacturing plant here, Holston Army ammunition Plant. It is now operated by BAE that developed much of the chemistry way back when

We ave not lost the ability to manufacture military explosives

Near by, there is a plant that still manufactures practice bombs.

Nearby there is a plant that makes uranium bullets

Near by there is a plant that makes nuclear fuel

[riverdawg]

“Loss of your manufacturing base results in an inability to make your own defensive, or offensive weapons”

I agree that there is a cogent argument to be made for not outsourcing the construction of aircraft carriers and other military weapons to foreign sources. But the example of the Chinese buying Segway in an earlier post hardly qualifies as a national-defense exception to free trade.

[riverdawg]

You’re wasting your time trying to convince the Luddites here on FR with these inconvenient facts. I’ve posted similar graphs in other threads, to no avail.

[Mr. Jeeves]

Tariffs are an attempt to make an end run around the difficult job of tacking our internal economic problems - when stem almost 100% from the anti-capitalist attitudes being systematically inculcated into our government school students. As I have stated before, the US "unemployable rate" is already north of 50%.

Every time the Left tries to take a populist whack at Big Business (like the California minimum wage law), they do absolutely nothing to hurt Big Business with its armies of lawyers and lobbyists - but they end up punching smaller businesses right in the face. When called on this, they get defensive - and their arguments always boil down to it being their good intentions that count, not the results.

Until these feckless idiots are taken out of power, 100% tariffs on every single import won't lead to any improvement in the domestic employment rate.

[BroJoeK]

DugwayDuke: "In 1870, 70% of the US population were farmers. In 2008, only 2%.
Should we have ‘protected’ those farming jobs?"

And that is the key point everyone needs to grasp.
Just as farming went from 90%+ of Americans in 1776 to barely 2% today, while farming production grows every year, so also US manufacturing output continues to grow while manufacturing employment declines:

Farming output increases over time:

While farming employment shrank to 2% of population:

So also manufacturing output grows:

While manufacturing employment shrinks:

Long term, we should expect that just as in agriculture, the US will produce more & more with fewer & fewer people designing, building, operating and maintaining more capable equipment.

The rest of us will work in services.

[sickoflibs]

Exactly my point on this thread.

Automation is killing US jobs.