Well, the only thing I can think of is how much I’m hearing about Cruz somehow stealing delegates after they’ve already been won by Trump.
I admit I don’t know all the ins and outs of the system, but I gotta say, as an outside, it seems pretty weird to me that someone can win delegates only to have them stolen.
Trump could have 20,000 delegates and the party GOPe poobah’s aren’t going to give him the nod - they’ll kick him out of the party and the convention - Bush is their man - and Rubio
If they were neck and neck, I say go for it.
They aren’t.
Cruz can’t get there numerically.
He’s out, but is acting as the water boy for the GOPe.
This seems despicable to me.
The caveat is that both can follow the “path to elimination”.
When that happens, it still takes a majority 50%+1 vote in the convention to select a nominee. If Trump has, f’rinstance, 48%, and Cruz has, f’rinstance, 44% on the 1st ballot. It then goes to the second ballot. This is where Trump’s deal making prowess comes into play. And Cruz’s as well.
The second ballot, those delegates are going to jockey around.
Trump’s vitriol is not going to be in his favor.
Of course there’s the possibility that both Cruz and Trump could be “mathematically eliminated” from reaching 1237 before the convention. In that case, it will be up to the hundreds of “other” delegates (won by Rubio, Kasich, et al.) and unbound delegates to put one of the two over the top. That doesn’t mean Cruz or Trump “stealing” any delegates from the other guy. It’s a matter of all those non-Cruz/non-Trump delegates preferring one of the two over the other.
They are not stolen. It is the second part of campaigning, is building support, so when delegates are released (rules vary per state) you pick them up. They system is geared so that if there is not a clear popular winner, it goes to rig strongest campaign. There is no such thing as stolen delegates. You don’t hear Trumpsters complaining about winner tak all states do you? Wouldn’t it be more fair if they were given out proportional? Every state has its own rules, how delegates are given out and when they are released. If Trump loses delegates after the first vote that is his own fault.
If a delegate is bound on the first ballot it does not matter. However, the gameplay is who is sent as that bound delegate. Is it someone who supports Trump as a Trump delegate or a Cruz or GOPe delegate sent as a Trump delegate. If the latter then on the second and subsequent ballots that person votes for Cruz or if a party regular for whomever the party says to vote. That is why it is critical for the GOPe to keep Trump from getting a majority of the delegates. They know Cruz will fail to get the required number for the first ballot.
They are not stolen and this is absolutely nothing new. Bottom line is where you can finding delegates to vote for you after the first round, or unbound who can vote for you on the first, and maybe vote the way you want on rules. This is why Trump just hired the new guy because this was not being done. Trump accused Cruz of stealing in LA - not so but it is a pretty safe bet not many Rubio delegates will go with Trump. If Trump continues with his collapse it is remotely possible Cruz could win 1237. If no one wins 1237 Cruz will win on the second round with Rubio and Kasich delegates. The blame is on Trump for his trashing of the other candidates, media and other conservatives. As Sykes said it was “weapon-grade stupid” for Trump to bash Walker.
There is a great misconception that winning "delegates" in a primary means that you get to personally name a person to be your delegate and that you would, of course, pick a loyalist who would never desert you even if there were 100 rounds of voting.
What needs to be understood is that each state is different. And that the process whereby candidates win "delegates" and the process whereby actual human beings are elected/selected/appointed to be delegates to the convention are two different things.
Trump has found this out late in the game and is trying to catch up now.
When he won "delegates" in any given state, what he won in many states was nothing more than a vote from a delegate on the first ballot. After the first (or second, or third, it varies by state) ballot delegates are under no obligation to vote as they are bound based on election results. How could they be? If all delegates were always bound forever, then in this sort of situation you could never get to one candidate with a majority.
None of this is "stealing." It is understanding the rules and making use of relationships formed with people in the various states over time.
So, Trump, like any other candidate will get what he earned in the primaries. Votes on the first ballot. If no candidate has a majority, then the delegates will have to decide in subsequent votes who they can agree upon is acceptable to a majority of them.
All very rational and no "stealing" is involved. The people selected/elected as delegates represent the party and they make the decision when the voters have not given any candidate a majority.
I admit I don’t know all the ins and outs of the system, but I gotta say, as an outside, it seems pretty weird to me that someone can win delegates only to have them stolen.
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And, I would add, there are those who claim this is perfectly OK. One of the most serious problems in the country right now is that people make up the rules as they go along and don’t see anything wrong with it, proof this country is no longer a country of laws. One amazing example: We now have two so called Constitutional lawyers who have redefined “natural born citizen” to serve their own self-interests. One having already been elected under this fraud and the other aspiring to do so. Worse yet, there are hoards of ignorant citizens, those who remain confused as hell on the issue, and many others who don’t give a damn - people of all walks of life ignoring the supreme law of the land by one means or another. So, stealing delegates, phooey, no big deal to a lot of people. Disenfranchising the voter is the politicians dream come true, that is if it serves their end game.
As some one has rightly said nobody can steal something from you that you never had to begin with.
Trump has won some beauty contests, all that gets him is a binding pledge that the delegates will vote for him on the first ballot (or the first second, or third maybe). The delegates don’t have to be certified Trumpazoids, they don’t even have to like Trump, they only need to vote for him as bound to their pledges. That’s it.
The physical delegates are normally selected via a parallel process that the Trump people have up to now largely overlooked. But Cruz, playing a much deeper game than Trump, has not failed to do his homework, and has been getting his people on the state slates very effectively.
Trump is playing an amateur’s game; Cruz the professional.
Lawyers cheat and steal every day.
Cruz is a lawyer. Need more be said?
Cruz is trying to win a contested convention. It is his only path. So he is stealing Trump delegates for second balloting. It’s a convoluted process where Trump won delegates through voting but Cruz is getting support for a contested convention. That’s why Trump hired new people to start fighting back.
Well, the only thing I can think of is how much I’m hearing about Cruz somehow stealing delegates after they’ve already been won by Trump.
I admit I don’t know all the ins and outs of the system, but I gotta say, as an outside, it seems pretty weird to me that someone can win delegates only to have them stolen.
“Well, the only thing I can think of is how much I’m hearing about Cruz somehow stealing delegates after they’ve already been won by Trump.”
Cruz can’t steal deligates pledged to Tump on the first ballot. He can take unbound Trump delegates in subsequent ballots, but that is not stealing since the delegates are not bound to Trump. Of course Trump can do the same to Cruz. Man, this could get sleezy in a hurry.