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Requiem for His Most Christian Majesty, Louis XVI, King of France
French American Friendship Foundation ^ | last week | unspecified

Posted on 01/17/2002 8:32:09 AM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen

French American Friendship Foundation
300 East 34th Street, Suite 33C
New York, NY 10016-4976
Tele# (212)679-4674 Fax# (212) 725-8681
Email: fltaylorco@att.net
Dear Members and Friends:

The French American Friendship Foundation is sponsoring its annual Mass to commemorate the life and death of Louis XVI, King of France, at 2:00 p.m. on Saturday, January 26. 2002 at St. Ann's Cathedral, 110 East 12th Street in New York City. The Mass will be conducted in Latin.

A program including a buffet reception, lecture and concert will follow the mass from 4:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. at Café Loup, 105 West 13th Street, which is located between 6th and 7th Avenues.

This year we are honored to have as our guest speaker His Royal and Imperial Highness, Archduke Dr. Geza von Habsburg. A descendant of a brother of Marie Antoinette, Archduke von Habsburg is a world-renowned authority on Fabergé, author of several books on princely collections and a regular gueat lecturer at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. He was also the President of Christie's Europe for many years. The title of the lecture and slide presentation, which will be given in English, is "Louis XVI, A Habsburg Viewpoint."

Following the presentation, a chamber ensemble will perform works composed by Mozart, DeBussy, and Beethoven. The freelance ensemble is comprised of distinguished artists who perform with internationally acclaimed orchestras around the world.

Price for the reception and lecture is $60.00 for members per person and $65.00 for non-member per person.


TOPICS: Announcements; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: catholiclist
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And how is this relevant to anything?

2002 will see the 225th anniversary of the Battle of Saratoga. This action is considered the Turning Point of the American Revolution, because General Burgoyne's surrender testified to the strategic viability of the rebel cause, thus inducing the King of France to form an alliance with the new republic.

While the French army under General Rochambeau was probably the best they were to field until Napoleon, it was the French fleet that cut off Lord Cornwallis' supply, communication, and path of retreat at Yorktown, thus guaranteeing his surrender and the de facto end of the war.

France, of course, was not a democracy at the time, so the final decision to aid the rebels was made by the king, Louis XVI. It is widely held that the expenses incurred in the prosecution of this war led to the financial crisis that ultimately caused the French Revolution and cost the lives of King Louis, his wife, and their children, and which plunged Europe into two decades of almost continual war.

Americans, who think la Marseillaise and the tricolour represent France, tend to forget that it was the royal victim of the revolutionaries who was the best foreign friend of the new American republic.

Please note, while the church is rather large and can accomodate a substantial congregation, the Café Loup is extremely small, so I imagine there will be an upper limit on how many people can attend, so if you really want to hear Seine Kaiserliche und Königliche Hoheit, Erzherzog Geza, you should probably book early.

Mass, by the way, is a Requiem High Mass, complete with catafalque, celebrated according to the Tridentine rite, as is customary every Saturday at St. Ann's

1 posted on 01/17/2002 8:32:09 AM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen (Reichsritter@Yahoo.com)
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To: Patent
Submitted for your consideration, if you think any of the "Catholic List" would be interested.
2 posted on 01/17/2002 8:33:38 AM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: B-Chan
Vive le roi!
3 posted on 01/17/2002 8:34:31 AM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
This event sounds delighful so I am sorry to be way to far away to attend. Your homepage is delightful too.
4 posted on 01/17/2002 8:41:32 AM PST by Bahbah
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
Wish I could be there. Vivat Rex!
5 posted on 01/17/2002 8:47:48 AM PST by B-Chan
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
I'm just not sure Louie did it for our benefit, or to shiv England.
6 posted on 01/17/2002 8:51:10 AM PST by lds23
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To: lds23
If you are drowning and somebody throws you a life-jacket, does it really matter if he did so because he wants his picture in the papers?

Besides, since when is shivving England a bad thing?

7 posted on 01/17/2002 9:00:00 AM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: father_elijah; Antoninus; aposiopetic; Salvation; ELS; nina0113; Steve0113; el_chupacabra...
Why not. ;-)
8 posted on 01/17/2002 9:02:57 AM PST by patent
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To: B-Chan
St. Ann's is useful to remember because a Tridentine Mass is celebrated there on many (perhaps all?) of the Holy Days of Obligation that occur on weekdays, while the Tridentine Mass at St. Agnes is limited (so we learned recently !) to Sundays.

Just something to file for next time you're in the neighborhood.

9 posted on 01/17/2002 9:04:03 AM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen

Americans, who think la Marseillaise and the tricolour represent France, tend to forget that it was the royal victim of the revolutionaries who was the best foreign friend of the new American republic.

Critical point to be made. My second question was answered in your post, which is that the real Rite of the Holy Roman Church will be used. Appropriate.

Otherwise, as was said in the eastern part of the dual monarchy, Eljen a Habsburg kiralysag! Eljen a monarchia! Eljen o fenseg, Otto von Habsburg!

10 posted on 01/17/2002 9:06:30 AM PST by Zviadist
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
I'll be with you in spirit.

Americans, who think la Marseillaise and the tricolour represent France, tend to forget that it was the royal victim of the revolutionaries who was the best foreign friend of the new American republic.

One of the downsides to living in New Orleans is the continuing pressure to play the Frenchman for the amusement of outlanders. For several years, my late pastor used to allow himself to be drawn into this fakery, countenancing the playing of the Marseillaise as the recessional after Mass on the Sunday preceeding every July 14. For years I suffered this with clenched teeth, but ten or so years ago, having just finished reading Simon Schama's Citizens, I called him up and asked that in light of the thousands of Catholics martyred in the Revolution, he reconsider this practice. It was not played again.

12 posted on 01/17/2002 9:07:58 AM PST by Romulus
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To: Romulus
It is noteworthy that the NSDAP had no objection whatsoever to that horrid song (unlike the scene in Casablanca). I have heard a recording of volunteers of SS-Charlemagne singing it as they entrained for the east.

Perhaps the line about "impure blood" was particularly agreeable to them.

At the Mass, several French hymns are usually sung. I believe they are specifically "Royalist." If you wish, I will research further.

13 posted on 01/17/2002 9:15:09 AM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Romulus; Goetz_von_Berlichingen
Hey, this might be the appropriate place to ask this off-topic question. Does anyone know the title of the French movie that came out this year about Marie Antoinette and the Revolution? It caused a small scandal in Paris due to its overtly sympathetic portrayal of the royal family during The Terror.

Anyone remember this or know the title? I'd like to rent it.

14 posted on 01/17/2002 9:15:29 AM PST by Aristophanes
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To: Aristophanes
Don't know, but I'd like to know. A French movie, right?
15 posted on 01/17/2002 9:19:19 AM PST by Romulus
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
Touche, mon ami. Actually, I am thankful for France's taking our side, and eventually having their own revolution, which help spread freedom and the idea of droits de homme. Although England still has their monarch, I suspect theirs was a bloodless revolution much on account of the USA's and France's travails.

I am puzzled by France's most recent history of appeasement to Nazism and Islam, though. I guess I need to think about this some more.

16 posted on 01/17/2002 9:24:34 AM PST by lds23
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
that horrid song (unlike the scene in Casablanca)

Just one of the sleazy tricks of that dishonest propaganda-flick-disguised-as-love-story is the shameless theft of the Marseillaise scene, from Jean Renoir's La Grande Illusion.

17 posted on 01/17/2002 9:25:19 AM PST by Romulus
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To: patent
Are they serving "corn-dogs?" Cause if they are I may make the 1,000 mile drive! Course you have to admit 65 bucks for a corn-dog is a bit steep! Are they serving "Old Milwaukee" with the corn dogs? It's still pretty expensive...but well worth it if they serving potato-salad with the corn-dogs and Old Milwaukee. Throw in some cole-slaw and I may just rent an airplane and a private pilot to get there!

Course if you get a free sample of the Fabergé to give to your girlriend it becomes even a better deal! Unless their talking about the Fabergé "eggs." Which aren't any good for making "egg-salad." You have to use real American eggs laid by real American chickens to get a good egg salad...which along with real American baked beans makes great side dishes for the ribs their gonna serve... but does anyone know what kind of BBQ sauce they're gonna have with the ribs and corn-dogs? ...I don't and my decision to attend will depend primarily on the "sauce"... and how much I have had! :)

18 posted on 01/17/2002 9:29:45 AM PST by grumpster-dumpster
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To: Romulus
Yes, French with English sub-titles. I tried to look it up in the IMDB, but no success. I'm almost positive it was released sometime early summer, late spring.
19 posted on 01/17/2002 9:48:42 AM PST by Aristophanes
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To: lds23
The fact that we're still paying the butcher's bill from the French Revolution yet is more proof, if more is needed, that nothing really good ever happened after 1789.

their own revolution, which help spread freedom and the idea of droits de homme... I guess I need to think about this some more.

I hope you do. You may discover that above all things, the French Revolution was the precursor to State Terrorism, waged aganst its own citizens, in the service of an ideology, to make them New Men, sundered from the tradition, culture, and history that teach them their identity and guarantee their dignity.

Have a look at this excerpt from Eugen Weber's first-rate review of Simon Schama's Citizens, published in the NYT:

Because they were reminiscent of aristocratic ways, elegance, manners, wit were denounced as treason. The King was deposed, and a new calendar opened with ''Year One of French Liberty.'' In revolutionary newspeak, liberty, of course, meant its opposite: a police state, in which spying, denunciation, indictment, humiliation and death threatened all. The sententious religion of universal brotherhood gave way to the polemics of paranoia: Rousseau with a hoarse voice, as Mr. Schama puts it. Personal scores became political causes. Nuts came out of the woodwork. Marat was one, but a nuttier enthusiast, the Marquis de Bry, gauging the mood of the hour, offered to found an organization of tyrannicides - 1,200 freedom fighters dedicated to the murder of kings, generals and assorted foes of freedom.

Thus was the joy of living replaced by the joy of seeing others die. Mr. Schama is at his most powerful when denouncing the central truth of the Revolution: its dependence on organized (and disorganized) killing to attain political ends. However virtuous were the principles of the revolutionaries, he reminds us that their power depended on intimidation: the spectacle of death. Violence was no aberration, no unexpected skid off the highway of revolution: it was the Revolution - its motor and, for a while, its end.

In the National Assembly Mirabeau had argued that a few must perish so that the mass of people might be saved. It turned out that more than a few would perish. Politicians who graduated from rhetoric to government found that rhetoric made government impossible. If patriotism was to triumph, politics had to end; liberty had to be suppressed in the name of Liberty; democracy had to be sacrificed so that Democracy should live. Speaking from the ruthless precinct of the Committee of Public Safety, Saint-Just, who is one of Mr. Schama's favorite antiheroes, insisted that the Republic stood for the extermination of everything that opposed it. And absence of enthusiastic support was opposition enough. [Homeland Security, anyone?]

With the likes of Saint-Just and Robespierre (a state scholarship boy, typical of old regime meritocracy), doublespeak was in the saddle. Murderously weepy, sadistically moralistic, fanatically denouncing as fanatics those who did not share their fanaticism, men like Robespierre stood for the will of the people as long as the people's will matched their own visions. Ever offering to die for their beliefs, they got the sour satisfaction of undergoing the martyrdom they professed to seek: murderers murdering murderers before being murdered in their turn, until the last days of July 1794 brought an end to the Terror, though not to continuing terrorism.

This is where Mr. Schama's chronicle of the Revolution ends, before successive regimes - Directory, Consulate, Empire - tried to pick up its pieces. But not before its author presents the bill for access to French citizenship: a quarter-century of warfare, with its fallout of militarism, nationalism and xenophobia; the disaster of the Vendee, where civil war wiped out one-third of the population; the ruin of port cities and textile towns that had been the growth areas of 18th-century France; the losses to French trade, which, by 1815, was only about 60 percent of what it had been in 1789. One could add that, by enforcing and thus discrediting paper money, the Revolution set back its popular acceptance by a century and accentuated national problems of credit and cash flow.

Mr. Schama reacts against intellectual cowardice, against self-delusion, against ascribing greatness to great horrors and painting brutish acts in brilliant colors. Above all, he reacts against violence, against the way violence as means was allowed to become violence as end, against the way politicians, historians and simple-minded nincompoops rationalize violence as pathological, or sanitizing, or necessary, or whatever.

20 posted on 01/17/2002 9:49:18 AM PST by Romulus
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To: lds23
" . . . and eventually having their own revolution, which help spread freedom and the idea of droits de homme"

You might want to re-think that. The results of the French Revolution were every bit as noxious as those of the Russian Revolution, but without the technology to kill really LARGE quantities of people, although Robespierre's boys certainly did their level best, with drownings, shootings, and decapitations. The guiding spirit of the Revolution was Rousseau, whose thought is embodied in modern American liberalism.

The reason why the American Revolution yielded a successful result is because it wasn't really a "Revolution" at all. When the smoke cleared, we still had the same ruling class, the same established churches (for a few years, at least), and the same basic rights as Englishmen. This is why most historians now speak of the American War of Independence rather than the American Revolution.

If anything, the real American Revolution started with the expansion of the franchise, the disestablishment of the state churches and the growing hegemony of the central government, culminating in the bloody 1860-65 assertion of federal absolutism -- in other words, the gradual repudiation of the letter and spirit of the Constitution. And it is all done in the same barely concealed elitist spirit of Robespierre "the Incorruptable" with his "Republic of Virtue."

21 posted on 01/17/2002 9:57:33 AM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: lds23
Touche, mon ami. Actually, I am thankful for France's taking our side, and eventually having their own revolution, which help spread freedom and the idea of droits de homme.

...as well as the ideas of desecrating churches, outlawing God, and chopping off the heads of those who disagree with same. Vive le Roi.

22 posted on 01/17/2002 10:10:09 AM PST by B-Chan
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To: Zviadist
In the great Venn Diagram of life, I find that the circles of monarchists and religious traditionalists are almost exactly co-terminous.
23 posted on 01/17/2002 11:14:40 AM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: B-Chan; lds23
"...as well as the ideas of desecrating churches, outlawing God, and chopping off the heads of those who disagree with same."

To say nothing of the mass rape of young girls, the slaughter of pregant women, and the torture of anyone suspected of not being quite "revolutionary" enough. Vive le roi!

24 posted on 01/17/2002 11:16:38 AM PST by cicero's_son
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To: Romulus
I called him up and asked that in light of the thousands of Catholics martyred in the Revolution, he reconsider this practice [of playing the Marseillaise]. It was not played again.

Your loss. I have French Huguenot ancestors and have listened as a single soprano sang a breathtakingly beautiful hymn in the completely dark Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris before a late night service. It brought tears to my eyes. I did this without thinking of the thousands of Huguenots massacred, burned at the stake, and persecuted by Catholics in the two centuries before the French Revolution.

The Marseillaise scene in Casablanca, whatever its source, captures the resistance and spirit of the French people at the time of their subjugation by the Germans. Beautiful moment. Why not think of that the next time you hear the song.

25 posted on 01/17/2002 11:46:39 AM PST by rustbucket
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To: rustbucket
Why? Because symbols mean things, rusty. That's what they're for. Only a Maoist believes that culture can or should be decoupled, decontextualised, deracinated from human life. Only if you're a tourist or don't speak French or don't give a damn about history, memory, and culture is the Marseillaise is nothing more than a catchy tune evocative of carefree vacations and weepy com-symp movies -- and not a blood-thirsty marching song, a call to arms specifically against Christians who took seriously their duty to God above a godless state.

If you could direct me to any anti-Huguenot hymns -- not Catholic hymns hijacked and abused in a violent cause, but marching songs composed specifically to celebrate the murder of Protestants -- and point me to a Catholic church where they're being played, I'd be happy to protest for you. Be sure to get back to me. I'm not holding my breath, though.

26 posted on 01/17/2002 12:10:29 PM PST by Romulus
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To: Romulus
You are correct -- I don't know any anti-Huguenot songs. But speaking of symbols, I do know of a medal struck by Pope Gregory XII celebrating the massacre of thousands of Huguenots on St. Bartholomews Day in 1572. Look it up on Google.

What do you think the present Pope was apologizing to the world for a couple of years ago? For starters, I suggest you read The French Wars of Religion, Selected Documents, edited and translated by David Potter...this is a collection of Catholic and Protestant documents. Or read The French Wars of Religion, 1562-1629, by Mack P. Holt.

27 posted on 01/17/2002 12:33:54 PM PST by rustbucket
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To: Romulus
Sorry. Typo. That was Gregory XIII who struck the medal commemorating the death of the Protestants.
28 posted on 01/17/2002 12:39:49 PM PST by rustbucket
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To: Romulus
You may discover that above all things, the French Revolution was the precursor to State Terrorism, waged aganst its own citizens, in the service of an ideology, to make them New Men, sundered from the tradition, culture, and history that teach them their identity and guarantee their dignity

This thread really is one of the best ones yet. Wish I could get to NY but just too much at this time. My great great great great was thrown into prison in Paris for opposing Napoleon and the revolution. My great grandfather was exiled as a result of the 1848 revolution. That's why he brought his family to the USA. They were rebels all and always fought for the right causes. Tis great to have in my history and blood the strength and courage that were theirs.

29 posted on 01/17/2002 12:48:13 PM PST by Renatus
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To: rustbucket
Yes, I know all about Pope Gregory's medal. The Wars of Religion were a dreadful time, with shocking crimes committed on every side. Historians differ on how well informed Gregory was when he commissioned the medal. Judged by our own standards, it seem to be an act of alarmingly bad taste. Let's hope neither of us becomes famous enough to be judged by people living 400 years from now.
30 posted on 01/17/2002 12:57:56 PM PST by Romulus
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To: rustbucket
"Why not think of that the next time you hear the song."

Have you noticed that some of the most reprehensible regimes in history have the catchiest tunes? Along with la Marseillaise there is the Internationale and the anthem of the recently deceased Soviet Union. And let's not forget Die Fahne hoch. Real toe-tappers, all!

31 posted on 01/17/2002 1:01:43 PM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen;B-Chan
St. Ann's is useful to remember because a Tridentine Mass is celebrated there on many (perhaps all?) of the Holy Days of Obligation that occur on weekdays

St. Anthony's (St. Anthony of Padua in W. Orange) is useful to remember because three Tridentine Masses are celebrated there on every Holy Day of Obligation.

32 posted on 01/17/2002 1:12:46 PM PST by ELS
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
My Dear Sir,

Your post and your homepage are delightful! St Ann’s is beautiful, but sad to say I am too far removed from Mordor-on-Hudson to attend at this time.

I also fear that the tendency of my family to be first in line to join most any revolution might not sit well with this group.

Be that as it may, God Bless you and yours, and have a wonderful time of it!

33 posted on 01/17/2002 1:30:08 PM PST by HoustonCurmudgeon
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
The results of the French Revolution were every bit as noxious as those of the Russian Revolution, without the technology to kill really LARGE quantities of people

Is technological primitivity really such an obstacle to mass murder? If the news reports were close to accurate, some two million people have been murdered in Rwanda by fiends with machetes.

Does the Dauphin who became King Louis XVII ever have requiems said on his behalf? So much goes unresolved; I hear the Vendeans continue to seek official acknowledgement of their own sufferings under the First Republic.

34 posted on 01/17/2002 2:15:50 PM PST by Dumb_Ox
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
I just HAD to put in an appearance here :-)

And now I *must* check your homepage since everybody is talking about it!

35 posted on 01/17/2002 2:25:21 PM PST by Marie Antoinette
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To: Marie Antoinette
I just HAD to put in an appearance here...

Good grief, why? Have you quite lost your head?

36 posted on 01/17/2002 2:30:46 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: ELS
I have been to St. Anthony's twice. It is a very pleasant church. Unfortunately, taxi fare is $20.00 (with tip) each way. So in terms of the time vs. money trade-off, I'm afraid that I can better "afford" to go to St. Agnes in Manhattan, at least until the car is finished and the fair weather has arrived.

(Not that I have any objection to driving a convertible during the winter, mind you!)

37 posted on 01/17/2002 5:06:16 PM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Dumb_Ox
I believe we remember the souls of Their Highnesses the Dauphin and Dauphine, at this Mass, as well as Her Majesty, although a specific memorial service is not so dedicated at St. Ann's. Indeed, the Jacobins counted so many victims, the whole liturgical year could be taken up with memorial Masses.

. . . which, come to think of it, might not be such a bad idea.

I will have to do some research to see if perhaps there is a special commemoration for the heroes of the Gardes Suisses also, faithful to the end.

38 posted on 01/17/2002 5:16:32 PM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
Shameless monarchist bump for His Most Christian Majesty of blessed memory.

Carolo augusto, a Deo coronato, magne et pacifico rege francorum, vita et victoria in aeternam!

39 posted on 01/17/2002 5:22:48 PM PST by John Locke
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To: Dumb_Ox
"Is technological primitivity really such an obstacle to mass murder?"

In my opinion, yes, because it gives leverage to the homicidal maniac. It is true that multitudes have been hacked or beaten to death in the context of tribal warfare, but such an undertaking requires a large number of perpetrators. Technology allows a fraction of a percentage of the population to murder a number of victims that is exponentially larger than the number of executioners.

The Nazis are a good example of this. While the SS is routinely blamed for genocide, the truth is that a small fraction of a couple of divisions of SS were actually responsible, perhaps no more than a couple of regiments. In France, during the Terror, it was the same way. Absent tribal hatred, there was really no great incentive for a large number of Frenchmen to butcher a large number of other Frenchmen using primitive means.

40 posted on 01/17/2002 5:28:49 PM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
A $40+ round-trip! Yikes! Unfortunately, in the suburbs the fares are much higher than they would be in the city for traveling an equivalent distance. I assume the bus routes didn't work out, either.
41 posted on 01/17/2002 6:24:21 PM PST by ELS
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To: ELS
I recall a CBC-TV show from the late 80's about an Ontario man, Charles de Bourbon, who claimed to be a direct descendant of Louis XVII (who supposedly didn't die in Temple Prison, but miraculously escaped and lived in obscurity thereafter) and pretender to the French throne.

While his claim is certainly nonsense, I remember one interesting tidbit: his son, the Duke of Normandy, worked on the assembly line at Chrysler and his daughter, the Duchess of Aquitaine, was a bank teller. How the mighty are fallen

42 posted on 01/17/2002 8:36:03 PM PST by Loyalist
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To: Loyalist
I read an article within the last couple of years concerning a child who died in the custody of the Jacobin devils. He was alleged to have been the Dauphin and his heart was preserved in a little reliquary (by, I think, the attending physician)

Technology has allowed a DNA test to be run, and it was determined that the dead child was, in fact, the legitimate king of France.

43 posted on 01/18/2002 3:39:15 AM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
Americans, who think la Marseillaise and the tricolour represent France, tend to forget that it was the royal victim of the revolutionaries who was the best foreign friend of the new American republic.

Actually la Marseillaise was written by a French Royalist. The lyrics were later changed after the French Revolution. I wrote an article about this once and will look it up again.

44 posted on 01/18/2002 3:45:03 AM PST by PJ-Comix
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To: PJ-Comix
I had read, so long ago that I may not remember correctly, that it was composed by one of the Garde Nationale volunteers who arrived in Paris from Marseilles. Napoleon is supposed to have outlawed it because he deemed it subversive (especially after that coronation deal in 1805), replacing it with Veillons au salut de l'Empire which was, therefore, actually the "first" French national anthem.

During the counter-revolution in the Vendée , there was a version called la Marseillaise des Blancs which I assumed was just an example of taking one of the enemy's tunes and setting your own words to it. This was and is such a common practice that the "rights" to the song generally go to the victor (e.g., "Yankee Doodle" was originally a British song; "Brüder im Zechen und Gruben" employed as the theme of the East German NVA was actually a Brownshirt song).

45 posted on 01/18/2002 4:38:43 AM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
The reason why the American Revolution yielded a successful result is because it wasn't really a "Revolution" at all.

[...]

If anything, the real American Revolution started with the expansion of the franchise, the disestablishment of the state churches and the growing hegemony of the central government, culminating in the bloody 1860-65 assertion of federal absolutism

Very insightful. You should post your comment to Pursuit of Liberty -- American Revolution: a revolution? , if it is technically possible.

46 posted on 01/18/2002 5:17:25 AM PST by annalex
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
Wish I could be there. I'll say prayers for the souls of Their Majesties. Vive le Roi.
47 posted on 02/19/2002 6:41:49 AM PST by B-Chan
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To: B-Chan
Next year, I mean.
48 posted on 02/19/2002 6:42:38 AM PST by B-Chan
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To: Aristophanes; Romulus
I believe you are thinking of L'Anglaise et le Duc.
49 posted on 02/07/2003 7:11:30 PM PST by royalcello
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To: Romulus
In the National Assembly Mirabeau had argued that a few must perish so that the mass of people might be saved. It turned out that more than a few would perish. Politicians who graduated from rhetoric to government found that rhetoric made government impossible. If patriotism was to triumph, politics had to end; liberty had to be suppressed in the name of Liberty; democracy had to be sacrificed so that Democracy should live. Speaking from the ruthless precinct of the Committee of Public Safety, Saint-Just, who is one of Mr. Schama's favorite antiheroes, insisted that the Republic stood for the extermination of everything that opposed it. And absence of enthusiastic support was opposition enough. [Homeland Security, anyone?]
[Homeland Security, anyone?]

Cute.

50 posted on 02/07/2003 8:10:23 PM PST by nicollo
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