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** ACTION ALERT ** Petition to SUPPORT VISA BONDING !
David C. Osborne ^ | 25 March 2002 | David C. Osborne

Posted on 03/25/2002 1:06:50 PM PST by davidosborne

Please Sign Petition to SUPPORT Visa Bonding..

David C. Osborne


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Breaking News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Florida; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: davidosborne
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1 posted on 03/25/2002 1:06:50 PM PST by davidosborne
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To: davidosborne
Your keyword is DavidOsborne??? Isn't that a tad egotistical?
2 posted on 03/25/2002 1:09:31 PM PST by Dog Gone
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: /\XABN584; 10mm; 3D-JOY; 75thOVI; a contender; AABC; abenaki; Abortion SUCKS out a Life...
passing it on.. I have finally alphabatized my ping list.. so if you want ON or OFF please Freepmail me, and I assure you it will be done correctly and immediately...

David

4 posted on 03/25/2002 1:10:16 PM PST by davidosborne
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To: davidosborne
OOOPs.. here is the link....Petition to SUPPORT VISA BONDING..
5 posted on 03/25/2002 1:11:26 PM PST by davidosborne
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To: 4ourprogeny
see post 5 sorry
6 posted on 03/25/2002 1:11:43 PM PST by davidosborne
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To: Dog Gone
my error.. typed it too fast.. wrong link... see post 5 ... sorry
7 posted on 03/25/2002 1:12:06 PM PST by davidosborne
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To: Dog Gone
apologies... I tried to submit a corrected thread.. but it is not taking it.. I will try again later..

David

8 posted on 03/25/2002 1:17:44 PM PST by davidosborne
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To: davidosborne
Sorry David, but I don't support visa bonding.

The INS has had bonds in the pass and it never worked.

This will only hurt the legitimate business traveler or visitor to the US, not to mention the impact on the tourist industry.

The terrorist can afford any bond we request, but the visitor and business traveler can not.

This is not a good plan, and it won't pass Congress.

9 posted on 03/25/2002 1:18:05 PM PST by Marine Inspector
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To: Marine Inspector
I think it is at least worth looking into.. there can be considerations on the ammount requested.. but the principle is a good idea IMHO
10 posted on 03/25/2002 1:19:32 PM PST by davidosborne
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To: davidosborne
Done. Thank you for your efforts.
11 posted on 03/25/2002 1:22:11 PM PST by scholar
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To: scholar
Thanks for signing.. there may not be as much support for this issue as others.. but as I stated.. I think the concept is a good one.. and look foward to a debate on the floor of the house and senate..

FReegards,

David

12 posted on 03/25/2002 1:27:12 PM PST by davidosborne
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To: davidosborne
Great...another obstacle to overcome in my quest to LEGALLY get a work visa. Instead of targetting the people who pose a risk, you want to paint everyone with the same brush.

Tell me, what kind of provisions would you suggest with respect to INTEREST on these bonds? If I am expected to put up money that would otherwise be in my retirement fund, I sure as hell want to be paid a competetive rate on it.

Visa bonding will do absolutely NOTHING to curb illegal immigration. It would most likely increase. "Hey Julio! Uncle Sam wants us to put up a bond equal to a lifetime of pay here at home so we can go to California to be busboys! Nah, let's just sneak in." Well financed terrorists will post bond and not think twice about forfeiting the funds to do their dirty work.

It won't affect the poor, since they are mostly illegals. It won't affect the rich, since they can afford to pay. The middle-class, however strong their work ethic or desire to succeed, will be unfairly penalized. Again.

13 posted on 03/25/2002 1:33:08 PM PST by badfreeper
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To: davidosborne
BTTT!!!!!
14 posted on 03/25/2002 1:33:31 PM PST by E.G.C.
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To: Marine Inspector
Well said.
15 posted on 03/25/2002 1:39:18 PM PST by badfreeper
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To: badfreeper
Thank you.
16 posted on 03/25/2002 1:45:26 PM PST by Marine Inspector
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To: davidosborne
If it will reduce the amount of free-loaders riding on an expired student visa and loitering around campus socialism mills, it would be worth it.
17 posted on 03/25/2002 1:47:50 PM PST by freepy smurf
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To: Marine Inspector
I'm with you. Considering the supreme idiocy of how all air travelers are treated alike least we hurt somebody's feelings, this bonding program, if it were passed, will end up being administered the same way.

I could support the bonding program if some common sense was used. F'rinstance, a young lady from Japan coming to study English would post a $5 bond. A young man from Saudi Arabia here to study civil engineering, maybe $5000. If it is chemical engineering or avaition, multiply the bond at least 50 times.

But since common sense is unlikely be adopted under the present situation where some clueless politicians have already forgotten 9-11, I can't support another air safety program.

18 posted on 03/25/2002 1:53:57 PM PST by Rubber Ducky
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To: davidosborne
NO!
I have customers who come here to buy. I have enough competition as it is. If coming here gets relatively more expensive, they'll go elsewhere.
My book-keeper is married to a guy (both native Americans)who works for the Lufthansa training school here. Guess what they'll think about?
By the time the feds allow for all the legitimate exceptions, YOU'LL have created another huge fed bureaucracy.
If you want to do something positive to avoid 9/11 repeats, pound on the FAA and the airlines get rid of cockpit/pax cabin doors.
If you want to stop the whining about welfare abuse (as if legal citizens weren't the creators, facilitators as well as recipients) then stop the welfare.
If you want bigger, more intrusive federal government, you're going in the right direction.
If you want to try your scheme, start with the state of Florida. Add visitor bonding for visitors to Florida. Watch what happens there.
I admire your desire to actually do something, but this ain't it.
T
19 posted on 03/25/2002 2:30:28 PM PST by AzJP
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To: davidosborne
"I think it is at least worth looking into.."

I'm not sure that this is THE answer, but I agree it is another possible tool. I like the idea of a citizen sponsor for those who want to enter the country - whether it is for just a visit or to become a citizen. Put the sponsor on the hook as well.

20 posted on 03/25/2002 2:42:35 PM PST by Badray
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To: AzJP; davidosborne
"If you want to try your scheme, start with the state of Florida. Add visitor bonding for visitors to Florida. Watch what happens there."

Excellent point! The Florida economy would collapse under a visa bonding system. There are plenty of other sun destinations that would salivate over the prospect of welcoming more tourists and their spending money.

21 posted on 03/25/2002 2:43:53 PM PST by badfreeper
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To: Badray
"I like the idea of a citizen sponsor for those who want to enter the country - whether it is for just a visit..."

Invitation letters as a requirement for tourists? Do you realize that that is what they used to do to tourists in the Soviet Union? Are you prepared to deal with all of the paperwork required when other countries enact similar restrictions for their visitors from the US?

22 posted on 03/25/2002 2:48:49 PM PST by badfreeper
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To: davidosborne; Dog Gone; 4ourprogeny; Marine Inspector; scholar; badfreeper; E.G.C.; freepy smurf...
Here is the original post on what Visa Bonding is all about. Feel free to click on the link at left and read before you sign, with particular note to posts #28 & 41. FReegards!
23 posted on 03/25/2002 3:49:30 PM PST by RFP
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To: AGreatPer; Angelwood; AntiTyrant; bmwcyle; BrucefromMtVernon; BufordP; Clinton's a Liar...
PINGging DC FReepers )))))))
24 posted on 03/25/2002 3:59:04 PM PST by RFP
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To: Badray;davidosborne
Visa Bonding is similar to when tenants rent an apartment and they pay a security deposit that they get back if they don't trash the place.

The naysayers are over-reacting that it will hurt legit businesses. I don't think so in the long run.

Consider this a SECURITY DEPOSIT for our FREEDOM and SAFETY. It is only one measure. Much needs to be done. We have to do all we can do secure our borders, whether land or coastlines.

Being directly attacked is new for America and we must adapt to a new way of life. Likewise, non-citizens must adapt as a result of other's criminal terrorist actions, the likes of which have never happened before. Three thousand innocent victims. Families trying to pick up the pieces of their lives. We cannot forget September 11, 2001 as that day is driving all the changes being made to keep us safe and free. Floriduh Voter

25 posted on 03/25/2002 4:04:39 PM PST by floriduh voter
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To: floriduh voter
Consider this a SECURITY DEPOSIT for our FREEDOM and SAFETY.

How is it a security deposit for our freedom and safety?

Will illegal aliens pay? NO.

Will terrorist pay? YES, and they will be admitted to the US and then what? Do you divide the bond up for the victims families?

Bonding will not make us safer or stop illegal immigration.

26 posted on 03/25/2002 4:18:44 PM PST by Marine Inspector
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To: floriduh voter
"Visa Bonding is similar to when tenants rent an apartment and they pay a security deposit that they get back if they don't trash the place."

The deposit that I made when I rented my apartment earns me interest of 6% per year. By law, my landlord must pay interest on all rental deposits. If I knew that I'd be earning interest on the money I had to take out of my savings to pay my immigration bond, I might be a little less opposed to the idea.

"The naysayers are over-reacting that it will hurt legit businesses. I don't think so in the long run."

Depends on the degree of the bond. If it's required only of foreign students, the effects will probably be minimal. People who can afford to study abroad can probably afford an immigration bond. It might even be a comfort to those parents who are afraid their children will go to the US to study and never want to return home. Extend it any further, and you're asking for chaos. The end result will be more illegal immigration and fewer skilled and semi-skilled working class immigrants. The rich and terrorists (sponsored by the rich) will not be hindered. Tourists, rich and otherwise, will simply vacation elsewhere rather than go through all of the red tape.

"Consider this a SECURITY DEPOSIT for our FREEDOM and SAFETY. It is only one measure. Much needs to be done."

That much needs to be done is something that we can agree on. But not this. This will cause more problems than it could ever possibly solve.

27 posted on 03/25/2002 4:43:51 PM PST by badfreeper
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To: davidosborne
While this may not be the perfect approach anything we can do to wake the damned congress up on immigration is worth pursuing.
28 posted on 03/25/2002 6:12:19 PM PST by Righty1
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To: Jeff Head; 4wvueers; 9mmmel; AriFan; BlackbirdSST; ConservaChick; countrydummy...
Idaho and Mountain State PING. Mountaineers, our illustrious and senile former klansman Sinator Bobby Byrd is fighting on the right side of this issue for us. Like the old saying, "Even a broken clock is right twice a day."

Click here for more info on Visa Bonding.

29 posted on 03/25/2002 7:30:48 PM PST by RFP
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To: badfreeper
The Florida economy would collapse under a visa bonding system

How about visa bonding for New Jersey drivers? Just kidding!

This seems like a bandaid for massive hemorrage -- and it wouldn't be implemented on the Mexican border, for political reasons (these poor people come here to work, yada, yada). I tend to agree with Marine Inspector, terrorists will be more than happy to pay the bond, while legitimate visa-holders are penalized.

Chances are the bondsmen would be federalized to some capacity, thus undercutting incentive. I can see Congress guaranteeing the bond, to boot, and taxpayers would foot the bill. Never underestimate the stupidity (or motives) of Congress is my motto.

30 posted on 03/25/2002 8:36:32 PM PST by browardchad
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To: badfreeper
With all due respect... I think you and others who oppose Visa Bonding are looking too hard and the "small Picture" rather than the "big picture"... A system of visa bonding IMHO is a good step in the right direction..

I suggest a system that would address your concerns..

We should require FULL financial disclosure, and we could have an EMPLOYER guarantee the bond so as not to put an unnecessary burden on the immigrant.

The point is to have a system which would provide a degree of motivation for immigrants to our country to keep their visas current...or return to where they came from..

David

31 posted on 03/26/2002 12:49:04 AM PST by davidosborne
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To: badfreeper
paperwork.... How about a simple e-mail, on the record in order to track these people down when their visas expire? And require the SPONSOR to notify the INS if there are any changes to the original data requested.
32 posted on 03/26/2002 12:51:46 AM PST by davidosborne
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To: floriduh voter
agreed
33 posted on 03/26/2002 12:52:26 AM PST by davidosborne
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To: Rubber Ducky
How about having the SCHOOL guarntee the bond.. that way the school would have to pay more attention to the STATUS of their foreign students?
34 posted on 03/26/2002 12:54:01 AM PST by davidosborne
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To: AzJP
I Respectfully disagree... The system would only be a SMALL addition to the data already collected on applications for VISAS.. it would simply provide a cetain degree of monetary motivation to the applicant and any associated business/school/private citizen to ensure that the records are kept current, and the applicant is in compliance.. in addition, I would probably support legislation that would FORFEIT the bond (to the LOCAL Law Enforcement Agency) if the individual is ever convicted of ANY crime... that would actually REDUCE the size of federal government..
35 posted on 03/26/2002 12:59:11 AM PST by davidosborne
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To: browardchad
Chances are the bondsmen would be federalized to some capacity, thus undercutting incentive.

Now that would be ridiculous.. money is money no matter WHO puts it up... and the GOVERNMENT would RECIEVER of the bond NOT the issuer...

36 posted on 03/26/2002 1:02:12 AM PST by davidosborne
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To: Righty1
Thanks for your support
37 posted on 03/26/2002 1:02:51 AM PST by davidosborne
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To: davidosborne
I could agree with making the school guarantee the bond. But again, the law should distinguish between English schools teaching mainly students from our allies in Asia and commercial flying schools teaching mainly those from terrorist producing nations.
38 posted on 03/26/2002 1:26:06 AM PST by Rubber Ducky
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To: Rubber Ducky
I suppose any and all information on the application would be considered in a logical manner to determine the ammount of bond required.. also the FINANCIAL disclosure of the applicant would be CRITICAL to determine what ammount should be required to provide sufficient motivation to the applicant not to violate the conditions of his/her visa
39 posted on 03/26/2002 1:40:12 AM PST by davidosborne
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To: RFP
BTTT!!!!!!
40 posted on 03/26/2002 2:29:06 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: davidosborne
"With all due respect... I think you and others who oppose Visa Bonding are looking too hard and the "small Picture" rather than the "big picture"... A system of visa bonding IMHO is a good step in the right direction.."

That's what is great about freedom. We can disagree in a civilized fashion. My problem with the concept of visa bonding is that it will not keep out the people who need to be kept out. Moneyed terrorists will still get in. Penniless illegals will still get in.

"I suggest a system that would address your concerns..

"We should require FULL financial disclosure, and we could have an EMPLOYER guarantee the bond so as not to put an unnecessary burden on the immigrant.

This is fine in the case of rich professionals working for large companies, but a policy like this, for me, would be the difference between getting a job and not. In my industry, it's difficult enough as it is to convince potential employers that they need you bad enough to do all of the paperwork that already exists. So far I've had just one person say that they would be willing to jump through all the immigration hoops to get me, but we couldn't come to terms on pay and benefits.

"The point is to have a system which would provide a degree of motivation for immigrants to our country to keep their visas current...or return to where they came from.."

Immigrants don't want to leave your country. That's why they are immigrants. Visitors such as students are a different story. Real legitimate immigrants want to settle in and make a new life for themselves in their new land. If you make it too hard for genuine working people to get in, you will be stuck with the leftovers. Bonding for students isn't a bad idea, but when it comes to business travelers and tourists, the impact will be huge.

41 posted on 03/26/2002 11:43:21 AM PST by badfreeper
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To: davidosborne
"paperwork.... How about a simple e-mail, on the record in order to track these people down when their visas expire? And require the SPONSOR to notify the INS if there are any changes to the original data requested."

The poster that my reply was to originally suggested sponsors for tourists. I just pointed out that that was how they treated tourists back in the days of the Soviet Union.

42 posted on 03/26/2002 11:52:17 AM PST by badfreeper
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To: Marine Inspector
Visa Bonding is not about the MONEY. In my mind, it is a pre-entry PAPER TRAIL, which the INS has not been very good at as far as keeping track of illegals.
43 posted on 03/26/2002 3:41:47 PM PST by floriduh voter
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To: badfreeper;davidosborne
I see visa bonding as an early PAPER TRAIL. The money is a necessary evil to process the paperwork. Obviously, the INS has no paper trail or way to identify who is in the country. I envision a database of visitors to our country and the visa bonding is filed BEFORE they enter the country and then they are on OUR DATABASE instead of the archaic paper system at the INS. We have to use hi-tech methods, the sooner the better. Please consider this may be the real reason behind such a system.
44 posted on 03/26/2002 3:47:04 PM PST by floriduh voter
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To: floriduh voter
What paper-trial?

The alien pays the bond, enters and disapears. No trail.

45 posted on 03/26/2002 4:16:47 PM PST by Marine Inspector
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To: floriduh voter
The system you mention is already in place and has been used for many, many years. It's called NIIS. But, the fact remains the same, once the alien is in, there is no method to track him or to know if he left. Bonding serves no purpose other then to cause more paperwork for INS and make it harder for the legitimate traveler to come visit.
46 posted on 03/26/2002 4:20:20 PM PST by Marine Inspector
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To: badfreeper
How long can one "visit" and not be considered a resident?

I would support a "sponsorship" program for real visitors.. but you and I both know people come to the U.S. to "visit" for the rest of their lives.. I don't know about you that to me is "resident" therefore required a visa.. therefore required to post a bond...IMHO

47 posted on 03/27/2002 2:49:44 AM PST by davidosborne
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To: badfreeper
That's what is great about freedom. We can disagree in a civilized fashion. My problem with the concept of visa bonding is that it will not keep out the people who need to be kept out. Moneyed terrorists will still get in. Penniless illegals will still get in.

Correct me if I am wrong my FRiend.. but is this the FIRST time we have been on OPPOSITE ends of an issue?

FReegards,

Enjoying the civil debate... I so proud of FReerepublic.. the left must be so jealous when they watch this debate because with them anyone who disagrees is a ...right-wing radical rich racist repubublican

48 posted on 03/27/2002 2:57:21 AM PST by davidosborne
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To: Marine Inspector;davidosborne
What if visitors check in and are on a database and when they leave, they check out? Check in and check out. If visitors check out, when they disembark, the bond money is returned and it is recorded that they left.

If they don't check out, they stay on a "still in the USA list" that they're still here. The bad guys, obviously, won't check out but we need to do better on visa expiration dates and I'm sure we have a better idea where cells are than we did pre-9-11. NIIS must not be a very good database because there is no followup.

We can't just throw our hands up in the air. We need a visitor database THAT WORKS coming and going and FOLLOWUP, red flags requiring further action. It can be done but of course the govt needs to hire dedicated, competent people to do the followup. We have enough paper pushers already. They need counterparts doing followup. CHECK IN AND CHECK OUT. IF THEY DON'T LET'S FOLLOWUP. That's all I'm saying. I feel relatively safe but not safe enough imho.

49 posted on 03/27/2002 4:42:31 AM PST by floriduh voter
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To: davidosborne
"I would support a "sponsorship" program for real visitors.. but you and I both know people come to the U.S. to "visit" for the rest of their lives.. "

The tricky part: separating tourist visitors from immigrant visitors. There would have to be concrete classification. There's a big difference between someone who plans to stay the full 90 days of their visitor visa (or longer) who are travelling on an open-ended return or a one-way ticket, and a tourist or business traveller coming for a week or two with a fixed-date return ticket. If you target foreign tourists, the tourist industry will suffer, and other countries would probably take it out on US travellers by imposing similar restrictions on them.

I remember visiting Europe for a couple of months about 10 years ago. Even though Canadians need no visa to enter the UK, I was still looked upon with suspicion, probably because not many people fly Canada to London via Amsterdam, but I got a great deal on a flight from KLM. As soon as the customs officer saw my return ticket and my Eurailpass that had yet to be activated (I was visiting the UK first and BritRail doesn't participate in the Eurailpass program,) she knew I'd be leaving, and gave me no problem from there.

50 posted on 03/27/2002 7:56:24 AM PST by badfreeper
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