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It Can't Be True, Government Schools Ban ... Musical Chairs?
Toogood Reports ^ | April 2, 2002 | Debbie Daniel

Posted on 04/02/2002 6:01:49 AM PST by Stand Watch Listen

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1 posted on 04/02/2002 6:01:49 AM PST by Stand Watch Listen
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To: Stand Watch Listen
I never liked musical chairs because it teaches that for there to be a winner someone else must be made a loser. Only in certain artificial societies like corporations is such a thing true.

On second thought, maybe it is good training. It teaches you that you'll have to kick some people to the curb in order to receive recognition. In a company like Intel with its 'normed' system of evaluation, you had better be able shove aside the lower 20%.

2 posted on 04/02/2002 6:06:15 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: Stand Watch Listen
I, I, I can't even believe this.

I am sincerely at a loss of words...Un-Phuqing-Believable!

3 posted on 04/02/2002 6:06:52 AM PST by mattdono
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To: Stand Watch Listen
>What a wonderful memory!…until now.

Yes I have many fond memories of institutionalized education. The green two tone, insane asylum like color scheme, the prison like architecture. All fond memories.

4 posted on 04/02/2002 6:08:31 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: Stand Watch Listen
"Musical chairs" is not appropriate for a public school because it does not teach cooperation. A more appropriate activity is teaching sodomy, because this not only teaches tolerance for diversity, but also teaches the children how to cooperate.
5 posted on 04/02/2002 6:10:33 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Stand Watch Listen
How sad! My kids think I'm crazy when I tell them I had a better childhood than they did. They have so many material things I did not have since I grew up in a very large, lower middle-class family.

What we did have as kids was tons and tons of kids to play with. Dozens. That was when there were a lot of families with 5+ kids. We had kick ball and dodge ball and kick-the-can and Red Rover. We had freedom to wander (as long as we were home for dinner) without our parents having to worry about us.We had penny candy!

I would not trade my childhood for all the trappings of today's adult-run, ultra-PC society.

Simon says, "Let kids be kids!"

6 posted on 04/02/2002 6:11:47 AM PST by Trust but Verify
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To: Dialup Llama
I was always offended by musical chairs and feel I am owed reperations for the stigmatization I suffered under a repressive music department. At least we owe it to the children to ensure they all embrace a muli lingual, all inclusive, non specist game of "harmoneous platforms". Remember, it takes a village.
7 posted on 04/02/2002 6:15:33 AM PST by tm61
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To: Stand Watch Listen
I remember an episode of the Simpsons where Bart had been moved into a remedial class. They played musical chairs but with 8 players and 10 chairs. I remember his expression when the music stopped, everyone sat down and the teacher yelled "Yeah! Everyone is a winner." Shameful.
8 posted on 04/02/2002 6:15:52 AM PST by tcostell
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To: Stand Watch Listen
looks like the little weenies that always lost are making the rules now ....
9 posted on 04/02/2002 6:16:00 AM PST by THEUPMAN
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To: Academia List;Education News;Homeschool;
indexing
10 posted on 04/02/2002 6:16:22 AM PST by Stand Watch Listen
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To: Dialup Llama
Are you being serious?
11 posted on 04/02/2002 6:19:41 AM PST by Right_in_Virginia
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To: Dialup Llama
I never liked musical chairs baseball football golf racing skeet riflery IPSC ANY COMPETETIVE SPORT because it teaches that for there to be a winner someone else must be made a loser.

In all of these activities, noone is "made" to be a loser, except by himself. Competition determines who, on any given day, is best at the competed activity. Repeated competition encourages losers to hone their skills, so that next time they might be winners.

12 posted on 04/02/2002 6:21:09 AM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: Stand Watch Listen
Can we replace Musical Chairs with Twister?

--Boris

13 posted on 04/02/2002 6:22:28 AM PST by boris
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To: Stand Watch Listen
Besides, tag is a form of sexual harassment, and duck-duck-goose is offensive to the web-footed community
14 posted on 04/02/2002 6:23:21 AM PST by scottinoc
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To: ArrogantBustard
>I never liked musical chairs baseball football golf racing skeet riflery IPSC ANY COMPETETIVE SPORT because it teaches that for there to be a winner someone else must be made a loser.

Again these are artifical competitions. Sports does not equal life and its not really good training for life except perhaps for a corporation where workers must prance like trained dogs which comptete for the approval of the master.

15 posted on 04/02/2002 6:28:41 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: Stand Watch Listen
Good article. I especially liked the lesson at the end.

It never bothered me to beat someone to the chair — I was very competitive. But now that I hear it encourages exclusion, I am saddened that we are teaching children it is bad.

My husband comes home from work and actually MAKES the kids or the dog get out of his chair. I wonder if CPS or PETA should be called?

16 posted on 04/02/2002 6:37:16 AM PST by scan58
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To: Stand Watch Listen
Recess! That's what I want to get rid of! How many kids were left waiting for their turn at whatever, when the bell rang and they had to file back into class. All those dejected kids! Was that a proper atmosphere for learning?

Who among you were in line, ready to jump into the swinging rope, when that bell rang? Who among you were just about to tag that last kid when you had to stop because of the bell?

Oh ---the despondency of it all! The crestfallen little kiddies. Their little psychies ruined forever because of unfullfillment. And all because of recess. Recess should join the ranks of Musical Chairs and remove that building block of childhood incompleteness.

17 posted on 04/02/2002 6:40:38 AM PST by Exit148
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To: Arthur McGowan
Good point. I am sickened at how morality in society is doing the flip-flop.
18 posted on 04/02/2002 6:41:38 AM PST by scan58
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To: Stand Watch Listen
Musical Chairs, Red Rover, Dodge Ball and Kick Ball... these are the games and memories of childhood... games that will never be played in adulthood and remain reserved to that brief time when the world is vast open and all possibilities are possible. Why is someone banning them? They are great and simple joys... Competition is not evil... I hate liberals.
19 posted on 04/02/2002 6:44:07 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: Trust but Verify
How sad! My kids think I'm crazy when I tell them I had a better childhood than they did.

How different than when most of US were young and our parents kept reminding us of how much better we had it than they did.
I understand.

20 posted on 04/02/2002 6:44:46 AM PST by scan58
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To: Trust but Verify
We had penny candy!

In God we trust, all others pay cash!

21 posted on 04/02/2002 6:45:57 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: Dialup Llama
At least you're consistent. Do you dislike chess, checkers and backgammon, too? Those also produce a winner and a loser. Perhaps you'd like a nice 'game' of Aroochycha. It's (still) a (more or less) free country. Do as you like. As for me, I'll try to be best at something...

AB

22 posted on 04/02/2002 7:24:03 AM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: Dialup Llama
Again these are artifical competitions. Sports does not equal life and its not really good training for life except perhaps for a corporation where workers must prance like trained dogs which comptete for the approval of the master.

What planet are you living on? Last time I looked, about 93% of people in this country go on to work in corporate America after going to school and corporate America is based on competition for those who want to succeed, and mediocrity for those who just want to get by. This is the system, like it or not. The rich do get richer and the poor do get poorer, generally (not always) because the rich work harder at it. It may not be fair, you may not like it like that, but it is the way the world works.

The idea of a socialist utopia where there is no competition has been tried many times and it has always failed. The reason America works is because the competition is tempered with compassion. This is the most competitive society in the world but also the most generous.

23 posted on 04/02/2002 7:34:09 AM PST by webstersII
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To: HamiltonJay
THAT'S the problem right there. Playing those games ruined you for life. Had you never been forced to participate in those activities, you'd love liberals today.
24 posted on 04/02/2002 7:42:29 AM PST by Psycho_Bunny
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To: Dialup Llama
"Sports does not equal life and its not really good training for life except perhaps for a corporation where workers must prance like trained dogs which comptete for the approval of the master."

Huh? "Prancing trained dogs?" Either you've never played sports, or you never worked for a large company, or else you done one, the other, or both and sucked at it. And believe me, I'm being kind, 'cuz the only other conclusion I can thik of is that you're an anti-corporate leftist who thinks big business is the root of all evil. The other conclusion is that you're goofing on us and I'm the one looking silly. It wouldn't be the first time.

25 posted on 04/02/2002 7:51:13 AM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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To: webstersII
It may not be fair, you may not like it like that, but it is the way the world works.

Its amusing to see slaves defend the slave system.

You work, another profits. The rich are not richer because of them working harder or any other such virture. It is leverage. They leverage capital. They also leverage the labor of peons whom they have convinced to work for less.

26 posted on 04/02/2002 7:55:00 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: Psycho_Bunny
Well fortunately I did not attend government schools, and my children will not either.... So eat that NEA.
27 posted on 04/02/2002 7:58:08 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: Harrison Bergeron
Make your masters rich. Perhaps they will bring back the holiday party and at least you'll get a free dinner out of it.
28 posted on 04/02/2002 7:58:59 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: Dialup Llama
While I agree sports do not equate to life, they are not an antithesis for life either. Competition, teamwork, grace in success and failure are all very important life lessons, for in life you will engage in all of them.

Now as for capital being leveraged to earn more, damned straight, the more you have the more you can make no denying that. However the idea that the united states is merely a caste system where the poor are destined to remain and the rich are guaranteed individualy their control ad nauseum is truly foolish as well.

Only in America can an immigrant arrive off of a boat with nothing but the clothes on his back and be part of the middle/upper middle class through hard work in less than 20 years. Or move from lower to upper classes in a single lifetime. You may not like the system, and it has its flaws, but please don't try to characterize it as the devil it is not.

29 posted on 04/02/2002 8:06:22 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: Stand Watch Listen
There was some famous quote about the military victories of the British Empire having their origins on the playing fields of Eton. I imagine that some future historian explaining the decline and fall of the American Republic will link our future military defeats to our feminized, pansy government schools.
30 posted on 04/02/2002 8:07:29 AM PST by Stefan Stackhouse
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To: webstersII
>...corporate America is based on competition for those who want to succeed,

Competition in corporate America? Is that what explains the legions of executives of failing companies walking away with repriced options (repriced to still be above water even at todays depressed prices which is an insane thing to do from a stockholders or bond holders viewpoint), walking away with loan forgiveness + plus cash to pay for the taxes, walking away with millions of $$$ in bonuses? I refer to Kmart, Global Crossing, Lucent... there are many others...

31 posted on 04/02/2002 8:12:28 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: HamiltonJay
>However the idea that the united states is merely a caste system where the poor are destined to remain and the rich are guaranteed individualy their control ad nauseum is truly foolish as well.

The existence of class differences is more present than most people care to think. Rent the movie Gattaca which presents a stratified, class driven, Western society in its full expression. Then decide how much like that society are we today?

32 posted on 04/02/2002 8:21:04 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: Stand Watch Listen
bump!!
33 posted on 04/02/2002 8:29:05 AM PST by billbears
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To: HamiltonJay
While I agree sports do not equate to life, they are not an antithesis for life either. Competition, teamwork, grace in success and failure are all very important life lessons, for in life you will engage in all of them.

When I see the obscenity mouthing, fist pumping Tiger Woods, I'm confused as to exactly what beneficial lessons I'm to take from sports.

34 posted on 04/02/2002 8:37:41 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: Stand Watch Listen
Can't have anything in school that even approaches reality, can we? To have some as winners and some as losers simply isn't the communist way.
35 posted on 04/02/2002 8:38:38 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants
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To: Dialup Llama
Dialup,

Classes exist in human society, always have always will.. but to promote the idea that western society is a hard core caste system if highly foolish. Go visit some of those asian countries where caste systems permiate their social and political structure then come back an try to alledge the US is in the same ballpark... I got news for you its not. And the concept that everyone can be forced to be equal such as communism are complete and utter failures and led to more elitism/peasantry than the feudal systems of the middle ages.

The fact remains, that in the US individuals are free to move through the classes upward or downward based on their personal desire and hard work (for the most part). I know people personally who are very wealthy but intellectually not even close to smart... but worked damned hard and earned everything they have gotten. I also know limosine liberals who have never worked a hard day in their life and live off their mommy and daddies, and I know people who have gone the other way from great wealth to great modesty.

Will most people in the US born to poverty become super wealthy? No. Will most people born to wealth end in poverty? No. But that does not mean that the paths are not open to it, and that people do not or can not do it, in fact the US is truly the most open society on the planet when it comes to an individuals socioeconomic destiny. In a true caste society such movements are impossible, no matter how much talent or ability or hard work those on the lower end have or exercise they never can improve their lot in life.

36 posted on 04/02/2002 8:42:42 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: Dialup Llama
Hahahah.. you have to be kidding me? Tiger Woods is your example of what is wrong with sports?!?!?! Hahahahahahaha hahahahaha... of all the examples of overpaid spoiled brats 14 kids with 10 different women, no personal responsibility and cry babying.. you use Tiger Woods as your example of what is wrong with sports? hahahahaha.....
37 posted on 04/02/2002 8:44:23 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: Blood of Tyrants
>Can't have anything in school that even approaches reality, can we?

American grade and high school is the most bizzare exercise in unreality possible. It provides good training for the social conventions and for a clerial or industrial job, in a small town, in 1950!

38 posted on 04/02/2002 8:46:32 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: Arthur McGowan
Not only does it teach sodomy, as we found out last week it gives them an opportunity to practice it. There was a story about young students doing it in the back of the room during silent reading.
39 posted on 04/02/2002 8:47:12 AM PST by Biblebelter
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To: HamiltonJay
One lesson to take from Tiger Woods is that its a good strategy to over optimize on a narrow set of skills and then find a competitive arena where slight differences in performance are disproportionately rewarded. Alot of hockey dads and ice skating 'stage moms' are doing that same thing. I suggest that in the long run, such a strategy is not a winning one.

Among those who play king of the hill, the one who makes it to the top finds the competition very fair and a legitimate rewarder of effort and training.

40 posted on 04/02/2002 8:54:29 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: Arthur McGowan;LarryLied;Clint N. Suhks;Khepera;erizona; GrandMoM; FormerLib
Bump
41 posted on 04/02/2002 8:54:46 AM PST by EdReform
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To: Dialup Llama
Huh? That is really scary. How about learning how to survive in a capitalist society. Unless you suggest that once children graduate from school they move to Russia or China.

Now that would be a whole lot better than living in this horrible commetitive society where hard work, reason and trail and error come in handy.

Oh I get it, you want to change our system into a socialist system where everyone is equal and no one is a loser. Well then, lets just pitch this social and economic experiment called America. What a novel idea.

42 posted on 04/02/2002 9:17:21 AM PST by Diva Betsy Ross
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To: No More Gore Anymore
>How about learning how to survive in a capitalist society.

I'd be glad to. Show me one.

43 posted on 04/02/2002 9:18:01 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: tm61
I was always offended by musical chairs and feel I am owed reperations for the stigmatization I suffered under a repressive music department.

Is it me or did it seem like all the music teachers were sadistic,mean,cranky old hags that delighted in making the class as miserable as possible.I could never understand reading music and never passed it anyway.We had this 50 some German woman that cussed like a sailor and was mean as a snake,I always pictured her in a Nazi SS uniform at her house admiring herself in a mirror.

44 posted on 04/02/2002 9:19:24 AM PST by Uncle Meat
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To: Stand Watch Listen
In order to undermine the Capitalist System you must discourage competition at a very young age.
45 posted on 04/02/2002 9:23:07 AM PST by Destructor
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To: Dialup Llama
Dialup,

You sound like a very lonely person. We get your point, you don't like sports, you don't like competition, you don't like free enterprise, and likely don't like Tiger Woods. There is a cynical view of all things, and so be it.

Cynics are needed in this world, they give the rest of us good laughs. As the saying goes, life's a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.

46 posted on 04/02/2002 9:25:11 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: Dialup Llama
I am truly sorry to learn your performance review went so poorly.

Do you think it was because of your social origins, or your lack of motivation?

You might want to try homesteading in Alaska. No exploitation in the bush! lol

I, like Mr. Bergeron, fear you are having us on. ;^)

47 posted on 04/02/2002 9:27:15 AM PST by headsonpikes
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To: Trust but Verify
Duck Duck Goose? WAHHHHHHHHHHHHH...............

My husband is still steaming about Ten Little Indians now being Ten Little Airplanes. We have 3 grandchildren under 18 months and we're beginning to SEE with our own eyes what the liberals have done to childhood!

48 posted on 04/02/2002 9:29:21 AM PST by Howlin
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To: HamiltonJay
Musical Chairs, Red Rover, Dodge Ball and Kick Ball...

I have emotional scars from playing "War Ball" in high school (it's sort of like Dodge Ball on crack).

49 posted on 04/02/2002 9:29:34 AM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: HamiltonJay
I especially dont like Tiger Woods precisely because he is the counter example: he is feted as the virtuous one, the role model, the one who shows that hard work is rewarded.

Yes labor away in your cubicle farms, you Borg drones, and look upon Tiger Woods and know that somewhere, for one person at least, effort is rewarded.

I don't like free enterprise you claim? Our enterprise is becoming less and less free. We live in mixed economy to be strictly accurate and the admixture of unfreedom is becoming greater all the time.

50 posted on 04/02/2002 9:31:40 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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