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Altar boys are paying the price of Vatican II
(London) Telegraph ^ | 12/04/2002 (That's April 12, Brit style) | Stuart Reid

Posted on 04/12/2002 1:40:46 PM PDT by aristeides

THE news from America is not good. In my day, there was none of that sort of malarky. At school (in England), the priests who taught me were good and holy men who did not, as a rule, indecently assault the boys.

The only incident I can recall that might now be classed as paedophilia involved a friend who was given one-on-one counselling about masturbation by his housemaster. My friend was told to take down his pyjama trousers. There was no "inappropriate touching", at least by hand, but there was a bit of close and apparently expert scrutiny and . . . But that's enough of that. We thought it was a bit of a lark.

What is happening now, in America, is not a lark. The sex scandal rocking and roiling the Roman Catholic Church there is serious. Even if, as I suspect, many of the weeping "victims" of pervert priests are on the make, there is still compelling evidence that very bad things indeed have been going on, and are still going on.

The scandal stretches back 30 years and more. It involves allegations against as many as 2,000 priests - among them the Cardinal Archbishop of Los Angeles - and has cost the Church about $1 billion. On Thursday in Holy Week, the Pope felt compelled to denounce paedophilia in priests as the work of the Devil.

It's not just paedophilia, either. There is a flourishing gay culture among Catholic priests in the United States. There have always been homosexual priests, of course, many of them very good men. What is new is that such priests now claim the right to indulge their preferences. According to an estimate from within the Society of Jesus, roughly half the American Jesuits under 50 are homosexual, and most of these are sexually active.

In California, the Jesuits have an official website that defies parody. Until recently, it was displaying pictures of novices cuddling one another in Mardi Gras costumes. The pictures carried captions such as "Pretty Boy and Jabba the Slut" and "Lambada, anyone?". These images were not found in some spotty novice's desk drawer, note, but were intended to place the Jesuits in a good light before the 700 million people around the world with internet access.

There is a very serious problem in the Catholic Church, but let's be clear what the problem is not. It is not, as so many believe, the rule of celibacy. ("I mean, if they was allowed to get married, they wouldn't be rogering them choirboys, would they?" The same sort of reasoning, in posher language, can be found in broadsheet newspapers.) If you want proof that celibacy is not the cause of child molestation or promiscuous homosexuality, look at the Church of England, or visit your nearest internet paedophile circle. The truth is that celibacy is the only hope that paedophiles - and their potential victims - have.

The real problem is the legacy of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965). It is no coincidence, as the Marxists say, that the revolutionary "spirit" of Vatican II began to kick in at about the time much of the sexual abuse began.

By opening itself up to the world - the aim of Vatican II - the Church hoped to foster a renewal of spiritual life. The renewal never materialised. On the contrary, pews emptied, seminaries and schools closed, annulments soared (in America, from 338 a year in 1968 to 52,000 in 1983), nuns started reading Germaine Greer and priests left to get married (giving greater scope to the non-marrying kind).

What followed the Council was decline: moral, intellectual, cultural and spiritual. It spread far beyond the Church. By ditching its ancient Latin Mass - the Mass of Bach, Beethoven and Palestrina - in favour of a participatory vernacular service of praise and thanksgiving, Rome committed an act of vandalism just as surely as it would if it had ordered the destruction of all the great cathedrals of Europe.

As it is, huge sums of money - though perhaps not as much as has been shelled out to the victims of paedophilia - have been spent on smashing altars, ripping out communion rails and generally trashing sanctuaries to make room for the new, man-centred liturgy. It is as though Rome had been seized by a frenzied hatred of beauty. No wonder the churches are empty; no wonder the culture of the bathhouse and the internet chat room has such a secure footing in the Catholic - and for that matter the secular - world.

The Pope has stamped out some of the worst abuses, and has even allowed the old Latin (or Tridentine) rite of Mass to be celebrated publicly, if in moderation; but it is hard to forget or forgive the fraud and experimentation that attended the introduction of the new liturgy in the 1970s. There were clown Masses and bunny rabbit Masses and dancing girl Masses and rock Masses. Christ, it was embarrassing. Celebrants began to get in touch with themselves, and, as we can now see, with others. Out went repression, in came expression. Altar boys paid the price. So did a new, inclusive presence: altar girls.

A measure of the frivolity that infected the Church in the 1970s is to be found in the statement issued last month by the Bishop of Palm Beach, when he resigned after acknowledging impropriety with a 15-year-old boy in 1977. The poor fellow was reduced to trying to account for his behaviour by saying, inter alia, that he had fallen under the influence of the "sexologists" Masters and Johnson, but added that he had made "wonderful Jewish friends" and "wonderful friends in the Muslim community". He asked for prayers and "expressions of love". He suggested that those who were a bit miffed should "pray for their ability themselves to forgive".

It is no good just blaming the Yanks, however. The decline of the Church in America mirrors the decline of the Church elsewhere in the West, and indeed the decline of the West in general. The sex scandals will eventually disappear, but the rot is almost certain to continue, and perhaps grow worse when John Paul II dies. We'd better watch out.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: altarboys; catholicchurch; catholiclist; pedophilia; vaticanii
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: ambrose
""... priests are SUPPOSED to be asexual. "

They are SUPPOSED to be celibate - whatever they are.

42 posted on 04/12/2002 2:25:34 PM PDT by ex-snook
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To: uncbob
LOL! You expect me to remember what I did as a boy 45 years ago!!?? It must have been good though because it sure upset those Irish priests. LOL. I was just naive enough to confess it. Those nuns were tough! You either confess or you go to hell! Period. No excuses accepted. That was just the way it was.

Man, I miss those days...

Never thought I'd say that.

43 posted on 04/12/2002 2:27:48 PM PDT by mc5cents
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To: Tanngrisnir; palladin
Palladin seems to have done you that favor in #40.
44 posted on 04/12/2002 2:27:51 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: aristeides
In a Book "Sex Priests and Power" by A.W. Richard Sipe It states that of "50 Gay Priests interviewed only 4 were celebate" of the others, some of those had "8 or so Sex partners and some had as many as 500 Sex Partners".

Do ya' really need to know any more? On the Roman Catholic Website ,http://rcf.org Where people are checking this stuff out,under communication there is a whole subculture of Clergy Organizing and holding "retreats for Homosexual clerics", and giving explicit instructions for giving Oral Sex safely to their partners".

Man O Man this really gives me the Creeps,to think these guys are acting as spiritual leaders in our Church.

Gruesome ! While Vatican II may be partly to blame most of these guys are REAL CRIMINALS..

Cardinal Law and Egan supported these criminals.

45 posted on 04/12/2002 2:30:34 PM PDT by chatham
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To: aristeides
"... It is as though Rome had been seized by a frenzied hatred of beauty. ..."

That is so utterly, utterly perfect. It captures the whole catastrophe. Thanks for posting it.

Can't help myself.......

TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
------W.B. Yeats

46 posted on 04/12/2002 2:30:37 PM PDT by LaBelleDameSansMerci
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: mc5cents
"Jesus, Mary and Joseph, why did ya do that Tom!" And that was in the confessional!.

Got to admit my 4 years in HS were the happiest in my life hated to grow up and leave.

BTW
I don't know what your opinion of Pat Buchanan is ( don't agree on his curent stand on the middle east )but I am sure you would enjoy his book RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING . A lot of it is about his growing up as a Catholic FUNNY as hell and brings back memories
48 posted on 04/12/2002 2:35:09 PM PDT by uncbob
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To: aristeides
But from under what bruised cell of your brain did this crawl out:

"...I doubt if Goebbels would have bothered to make pederasty the center of his propaganda against the Catholic Church if the charges had been entirely without foundation....

I'd never thought of analyzing Goebbles genius in quite that way. The more ugly the propanganda, the more likely it was to have some foundation. Hmmmm.....

49 posted on 04/12/2002 2:35:49 PM PDT by LaBelleDameSansMerci
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To: gcruse
And women priests? Seems to me we would then have lesbians as well as gay men preying on the young people.
50 posted on 04/12/2002 2:37:08 PM PDT by mountainfolk
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To: Clemenza; biblewonk
(Since biblewonk has signed off for the weekend, please allow me...)

God might as well have chosen your mother (or mine) I guess.

You guess correctly! Mary was a sinner in need of a Savior (Luke 1:47), just like my mother (and yours).

Over and out. :-)

51 posted on 04/12/2002 2:37:13 PM PDT by newgeezer
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To: aristeides
If you are saying the Church should not ordain celibate homosexuals, I entirely disagree. The trouble is that, in our sex-obsessed age, very few homosexuals remain celibate any longer.

Couldn't part of the problem be that there are too many bad priests with homosexual desires. So that instead of receiving support from fellow priests, a weak struggling priest receives temptation? And is turned into a bad priest himself? If some of these stories about certain seminaries are true, then it's not a surprise that so many fall into temptation.

52 posted on 04/12/2002 2:38:10 PM PDT by Sci Fi Guy
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
I don't know why, but this whole thread reminds me of this poem from my high school days:
The Garden of Love
William Blake

I went to the Garden of Love
And saw what I never had seen:
A Chapel was built in the midst,
Where I used to play on the green.

And the gates of this Chapel were shut,
And Thou shalt no, writ over the door;
So I turn'd to the Garden of Love,
That so many sweet flowers bore,

And I saw it was filled with graves,
And tomb-stones where flowers should be:
And Priests in black gowns were walking their rounds,
And binding with briars, my joys & desires.

It wasn't easy growing up Catholic, believe me.
53 posted on 04/12/2002 2:38:19 PM PDT by mc5cents
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To: newgeezer
Old Joke.

Jesus says 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'

A rock whizes by his head and strikes the harlot right in the temple, she drops like a sack of potatoes.

Jesus slowly turns and says in an exasperated voice 'Mother....'

54 posted on 04/12/2002 2:39:46 PM PDT by Dinsdale
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To: uncbob
Well the only way this mess is going to get cleaned up in the USA is if the Pope appoints a special represenative with unlimited powers to purge the system.

Or if the civil authorities throw large numbers of priests and bishops in jail, and the lawyers sue many dioceses out of existence.

When "Cardinal" Law is reduced to saying Mass in Ted Kennedy's garage, you know the mess will have been cleaned up.

55 posted on 04/12/2002 2:44:41 PM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: mountainfolk
And women priests? Seems to me we would then have
lesbians as well as gay men preying on the young people.

Who is talking about women priests?  Then again,
I don't see anything wrong with it.  We may be
talking historical male domination being
threatened by this issue and in the covering-up
of priestly crimes by the bishops, though.  If
men can't be trusted in positions of authority
around children,  it isn't a stretch to cede the
operation to women.  Amiee Semple McPherson
was merely a fraud, not a rapist.
 

56 posted on 04/12/2002 2:45:51 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: aristeides
Oh, the Bible does indeed call it an abomination. But so what? Perhaps you will enjoy the following. It's a real, live, actual honest-to-God letter a listener wrote to the infamous Dr. Lara after she excoriated homosexuals and reminded her listeners of the biblical text that homosexuality is an abomination to God.

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them.

* When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

* I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

* I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

* Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

* I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

* A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev.11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

* Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

* Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

* I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

* My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.

57 posted on 04/12/2002 2:46:09 PM PDT by Tin Man Tex
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To: Tin Man Tex
Ah, religion, that bastion of continuity.
I await answers to your post also.
58 posted on 04/12/2002 2:51:08 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: uncbob
Thanks I will have to pick up his book and read it. I sort of like Buchanan though I think he could be a little more diplomatic at times and get his ideas taken more seriously (too much time spent on "Crossfire" I suppose).

But yea, growing up Catholic was a hoot and to think I am still one says something... about me... about the church... maybe about what faith is and how it works no matter what. I don't know. I just know that I'm comfortable with my faith. Maybe not a good thing, but nontheless it's how I feel. I can't imagine being anything else.

59 posted on 04/12/2002 2:51:17 PM PDT by mc5cents
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To: aristeides
I wish it were otherwise, but I have to agree with much of this article. Conservatives were shouted down as the changes to things uniquely catholic were imposed. Many things such as no meat on Friday, fasting and abstaining during lent and advent, holidays of obligation, confession once a year, etc. etc. were dropped either officially or slid into ambiguity from one priest or parish to the next. Catholics knew that the disciplines mentioned above were not God's laws but a means to keep us aware of our mortality and in touch with our conscience. After throwing out the aids to spiritual development, the reformists made it open season on anything and everything catholic. This drove many of us away and the probability of us returning is quite remote. New generations that are not disillusioned will have to dig out the rot and rebuild. It can't be done overnight. The catholic church will endure, of that I am sure.
60 posted on 04/12/2002 2:51:57 PM PDT by mountainfolk
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