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It's time to snap out of Arab fantasy land {Steyn}
National Post ^ | April 19 2002 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 04/19/2002 7:01:18 AM PDT by iav2

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To: Dog Gone
But displacing millions more Palestinians does not accomplish a thing.

Oh yeah! What about the Germans that were forced out of their Baltic territories? I don't see them packing bombs for Kaliningrad. Politics will not solve this problem . A total victory by Israel is what is needed. Elimination of the muslims from the West Bank will give Israel a border it can defend.

41 posted on 04/19/2002 12:52:32 PM PDT by kapn kuek
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To: Dog Gone
Steyn's solution only guarantees more of the same, until such time as the Palestinians get their hands on a WMD

Agree!

42 posted on 04/19/2002 12:53:19 PM PDT by Cold Heat
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To: Dog Gone
We need to see a coup in the Palestinian ranks that takes out Arafat

It will be a glorious day when AraFat is dead! The world will be a much nicer place.

43 posted on 04/19/2002 12:57:28 PM PDT by kapn kuek
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To: iav2
If instead of inventing the designation "Transjordan," he'd just called the eastern territory "Palestine" and the west "Israel" (or "Judah"), the Arafatist claim would be a much tougher sell.

It is so amazing to consider the effect the Great British World Carvers had in the period ca 1918-1948. In Ireland, the Balkans, the Middle East, Africa, the sub-continent --- all of those decisions on borders and new countries, some of them incredibly bone-headed, are still plaguing us today. We are still paying the penalty for European colonialism

44 posted on 04/19/2002 1:01:31 PM PDT by beckett
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To: kapn kuek
Elimination of the muslims from the West Bank will give Israel a border it can defend.

No, it won't. Eventually, the Palestinians will get weapons that can be fired over any border Israel creates. That's a fact that cannot be ignored.

45 posted on 04/19/2002 1:18:05 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: anapikoros
Fallaci: I find it shameful that the Catholic Church should permit a bishop, one with lodgings in the Vatican no less, a saintly man who was found in Jerusalem with an arsenal of arms and explosives hidden in the secret compartments of his sacred Mercedes, to participate in that procession and plant himself in front of a microphone to thank in the name of God the suicide bombers who massacre the Jews in pizzerias and supermarkets. To call them “martyrs who go to their deaths as to a party.”

Fallaci has opened up a hornet's nest with this charge. She is undoubtedly referring to Greek Catholic Patriarch of Jerusalem Hilarion Capucci. Even if he has lodgings in the Vatican (it would be strange if he did, but perhaps Rome has some accomodation with the Greek Catholic Church), the Roman Catholic Church can neither "permit" nor deny permission to him for whatever he would like to say or whatever he would like to do. He does not answer to the Roman Catholic Pontiff!

Fallaci must know this, otherwise she wouldn't have cloaked the charge by not naming Capucci. Meanwhile, her accusation has been picked up on Andrew Sullivan's website and other places, and as the tale gets told and retold, it is made to appear that a Roman Catholic Bishop is praising suicide bombers! This is unfair.

Rome has not handled the present crisis well. The statements out of the Vatican have been too credulous of the official Palestinian line. But that doesn't justify a treacherous attempt to make Rome responsible for the words of a clergyman who is not even Roman Catholic.

46 posted on 04/19/2002 1:48:55 PM PDT by beckett
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To: iav2; Pokey78; dennisw
Israel should take what it needs of the West Bank for a buffer, round up every terrorist it can, and announce that the Jordanians are welcome to what's left. If King Abdullah doesn't want it and chooses to call in the UN blue helmets in perpetuity, so be it. But the last eight years should have taught Israel that it cannot live within its 1967 borders next to a thug statelet whose sole purpose is to liquidate it. The Arabs have succeeded in luring the West into their bizarro alternative universe, where land lost by a foolish king is mysteriously transformed into the personal property of a terrorist organization, where the "armed struggle" of wired schoolgirls is UN-approved, and where the "right to exist" is something to be negotiated. Fantasy land is fun, but we've encouraged the Arabs in their peculiar dementias for too long. It's time to get real.

Yep.

47 posted on 04/19/2002 2:20:37 PM PDT by Brian Allen
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To: Alouette
Bump.
48 posted on 04/19/2002 2:44:33 PM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: beckett
"...all of those decisions on borders and new countries, some of them incredibly bone-headed, are still plaguing us today. We are still paying the penalty for European colonialism."

Initially, that was my thought, too.

But, then, I got to thinking. Is the tragic post-colonial history of peoples in Africa and the Middle East simply a function of the way their borders were drawn?

With hindsight, how would one draw them today so that the tribal strife and tyrannical impulse would have been dampened?

I've since concluded that colonialism has precious little to do with the problem.

49 posted on 04/19/2002 3:25:36 PM PDT by okie01
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To: okie01
I agree quite completely that the present troubles around the world cannot all be laid at the feet of European colonialism. If my statement implied as much, it's only because it was inartfully written. Most of them, as you say, are attributable to the failings of human condition in general and to the "tyrannical impulse" that seems to be so pronounced in the developing world.

But some of the difficulties of the present time are directly traceable to the breakup of the British Empire, e.g., as Steyn notes, Churchill's lack of foresight in laying out the specifics of the Balfour Agreement. And there are other examples, most notably, in my view, the herding of the Muslims of the sub-continent into Pakistan and Bangladesh.

The Brits, and others hanging out in the corridors of Versailles, played God. But they lacked His infallibility, I fear. We are still paying the cost of their miscalulations.

50 posted on 04/19/2002 3:51:13 PM PDT by beckett
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To: iav2
All reports rely on the same couple of eyewitnesses -- "Kamal Anis

You've heard of "straight from the horse's mouth" now you heard it straight from the camel's anus.

51 posted on 04/19/2002 3:52:25 PM PDT by Alouette
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To: beckett
"The Brits, and others hanging out in the corridors of Versailles, played God. But they lacked His infallibility, I fear."

Well put. One wonders if they actually sought this role, as opposed to merely accepting it as among the responsibilities that came with empire. My guess is that some among them -- we would call them liberals today -- actually cherished the opportunity.

Which reminds me of a very incisive piece authored by a Northwestern student that appeared yesterday. Liberals Insult The Very People They Try To Help.

"And there are other examples, most notably, in my view, the herding of the Muslims of the sub-continent into Pakistan and Bangladesh."

Was this not a conscious decision on the part of Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the so-called Father of Pakistan? My understanding is that Jinnah demanded a separate Muslim state, as opposed to the multi-cultural state that Gandhi and his followers preferred.

Once the partition was agreed to, a massive population transfer followed.

52 posted on 04/19/2002 4:15:40 PM PDT by okie01
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To: iav2
The Zionists have been trading "land for peace" ever since the Great War, and the result is they've got hardly any land and less peace than ever before. As early as 1921, Chaim Weizmann wrote to Churchill protesting the ever shrinking borders of the potential Jewish homeland.....

No problem, if the Arabs keep on, they'll get what they keep begging for, along with the Euroninnies:

Gen 15:18 At that time the LORD made a promise to Abram. He said, "I will give this land to your descendants. This is the land from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates.

53 posted on 04/19/2002 4:27:59 PM PDT by FlyVet
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To: FlyVet
bttt
54 posted on 04/19/2002 4:49:58 PM PDT by sarasmom
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To: Clara Lou
I'm wondering how the "Euroninnies" react to him?

They sneak up to their attics and read Mein Kampf, bobbing their heads and chanting "jews are bad" (like those kids in the muslim religious schools), until they have purged all logic from their minds and slip into a mind-numbed torpor.

55 posted on 04/19/2002 5:16:37 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: iav2
You'd think with so many thousands massacred there'd be a bigger selection of victims and distraught loved ones, wouldn't you? But apparently not.

Its simple really. The Isrealis have obviously killed/kidknapped/incarcerated them all so they can't tell their heart-wrenching stories to the press. [/sarcasm].

56 posted on 04/19/2002 5:20:21 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: Alouette
"Kamal Anis

LOL

57 posted on 04/19/2002 5:43:58 PM PDT by Inkie
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To: Dog Gone
No, it won't. Eventually, the Palestinians will get weapons that can be fired over any border Israel creates. That's a fact that cannot be ignored.

Expelling the muslims is the final solution. Israel will take out any government that poses a threat to its survival. Just ask Sadam Hussein what happened to his nuclear plants! I would expect the USA to do the same thing with any nation that attempted to destroy it. Perhaps Afghanistan is a good example for Israel of how to defeat an enemy. Israel should ignore Colin Powel and do as we do not as we say.

58 posted on 04/19/2002 6:03:49 PM PDT by kapn kuek
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To: Alouette
You are sooo funny! I love it.

Kamal Anis camel's anus

59 posted on 04/19/2002 6:10:05 PM PDT by kapn kuek
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To: jpl; Onyx; Alouette; Lent; Knighthawk; a_Turk, JohnHuang2, Dennisw...
A big bump
60 posted on 04/19/2002 6:55:54 PM PDT by TopQuark
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