Jenin: the bloody truth

http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/article/0,,178-273694,00.html ^ | April 21, 2002 | Marie Colvin

[Madame Dufarge]

It's a good rule of thumb to consider that 90% of what the pro Palesstinian press writes is fiction.

You're being too kind.

[Lancey Howard]

By doing so, I have come to conclusions that are unlikely to satisfy the propagandists of either side.

This pathetic terror-apologist author takes way too many pains to convince the reader of her "objectivity"

GO ISRAEL !!! Finish the job.

[VOA]

It's was just a tiny patch.
Now he knew why the newschannels only show the same buildings over and over again!

I hate to admit it took me awhile to catch on to this bit of journalistic sleight-of-hand.

After watching the Friday night ABC NightLine show, I started to notice that for
every single "landscape" view, there were ALWAYS standing, apparently undamaged
houses not too far away (couple of hundred yards/meters?).

And now I wonder if the b@stards with the cameras probably weren't using
wider-angle lenses to make it look even that far off.

Listening to our reporters you'd think the "zone of devastation" was about a thousand times
bigger than the square footage of Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, Sobibor,
Nagasaki, and Hiroshima combined.
I'm sure it seems that way to some of the innocents caught in events...but mis-leading
reportage doesn't help the cause of the suffering Palestinian.

The only difference between some members of the press and Arafat is that
Arafat doesn't shave every day.

[knighthawk]

LOL! The press are a bunch of liars and now they are being unmasked bit by bit!

[section9]

You think and write like a Nazi. This is the way Hitler talked. Others only understand brute force. We, the superior race, will dominate the lesser races and bring a new world order into being. Right out of their playbook.

Well, it didn't take long for a Jew-baiter to show up, did it? The fact is, this story differs in several details from the one that was published in the Washington Post. Indeed, it differs mightily from the account of the interviews with the IDF troops that was published in The Guardian, of all papers, two days ago.

Tell me, the IDF is primarily a reservist army. Most of them are civilians in uniform. Many of them are on leave now. Why haven't any IDF troopers bared their souls to Ha'aretz or Ma'ariv, two reliably Labour papers (and backers of Peres)? Eh? Where are the IDF guys with any conscience? Why haven't they stepped forward?

Might it be because most of the Pallie stories are lies? The Namal and Golani brigades are regular troops. The reserve battalion, however, those were regular Joes. They would have told all of Israel by now if a massacre had happened, or if Arab families had been held hostage. But they haven't, because it didn't happen.

You're seriously expecting us to buy into Pallie massacre stories simply because they tell the international press and the delegation of U.N. gauleiters what they want to hear? That the Israelis are a bunch of evil, fascist animals who can't wait to start up their own chain of death camps?

You expect us to believe stories in which not one Pallie has any story of the Israelis behaving humanely? Sorry pal, but we've all seen how Goebbels and Streicher used to operate. We're not buying.

I'm not saying that two or three guys, perhaps more, might have cracked and killed civilians, especially amongst the reserve troops. That definitely happened. You'll notice, however, that the reporter gave short shrift to IDF reports that the Pallies had used plumbing mines, trashcan bombs, and alleyways with interlocking fields of fire.

There's also another aspect of this story that strikes me as suspicious. Nablus' casbah fell to regular Israelis who advanced from house to house by way of blowing holes in the walls of houses. IDF troops, towards the end of the battle, specifically mentioned that they did not do this in Jenin and they were complaining bitterly that reserve troops had been sent in there who had no idea about how to handle urban warfare. I specifically remember several junior officers going on about how they lost too many reservists because they weren't using proper tactics. They were going door-to-door, and did not have the plastique or semtex with them to blow out the walls. Only the regulars went in that way.

Your whole assertion is that the Israelis intentionally and with malice aforethought violated the fourth Geneva convention. You haven't proved a thing, and indeed, have proven far less than the latter day Julius Streicher who wrote this story.

You asserted, as if proven, that the Israeli actions were evil. No, they were not. They were the justifiable actions of citizen-soldiers attempting to defend their homeland and people against terrorist gangsters.

The war of the IDF is the same as our war. The American people understand that, and have seen through the web of lies spun by the PA talking heads.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[Lancey Howard]

You're extremely delusional.

This "Feenian" shows up on all the middle east threads to bash Israel for defending itself against the Palestinian culture of terror. He's become a one-note samba. He/she/it still manages to suck in freepers who haven't encountered him yet, but I think if he gets ignored long enough, he'll finally get bored and go away. Hopefully.

[TomB]

I got home today and my father told me that on the news there was an aerial photo of the destoyed patch on TV. It's was just a tiny patch. Now he knew why the newschannels only show the same buildings over and over again!

Here they are. From this website.

Once and for all, the lies are put to rest.

[monkeyshine]

Excellent pictures... too bad they came late in the thread. They indeed put the lies to rest.

Put it into perspective, Palestinian terrorists apparantly killed more people between the Sbarro's pizza bombing and the Passover meal bombing than were killed by the IDF in this hard faught battle against armed militants and boobie trapped terrorist factories.

The difference, of course, is that the Palestinian terrorists targeted and murdered innocent civilians, whereas the IDF went after militants who chose to stay behind to protect their bomb making factories and weapons caches. The innocent Palestinians had plenty of time to flee, as most of them did. The innocent Jews were murdered without warning.

Yet you wouldn't know it from the media convulsions, lies and distortions... esp out of the European press. The leftists are truly sick puppies for their lack of moral clarity, and their immoral equivalences, but they are getting their due. In the French Presidential election held today, the two rightist candidates made it to the second ballot, pushing all the lefists and socialists off. France now will have to choose between a center-right leader and a far-right populist racist. Must be driving the leftists/socialists bonkers. Jospin, the socialist, has resigned from politics completely. They have done this to themselves.

[Leisler]

Ok nancy, explain the pictures? Hmmm, well?

....sounds of crickets......

As we said and thought.

[Timmy]

Would these be the same people we see dancing in the streets when Iraq hits Israel with a scud, when suicide murderers kill Israeli children, or when 3000 American lives are snuffed out by their allies? Are these THOSE people?

[section9]

Ah, so now our friend from the Cour de L'ene, Idaho branch of the American White People's Totenkopfverbande ("Das Reich" Chapter) decides to lie straight to our faces. To wit:

It's not "Jew-baiting" to point out you think like a Nazi. I refer to your recommendation that maybe it might be necessary to kill around a million Arabs--but hey, so what?

Dear lying Hitlerjugend. At what point, AT WHAT POINT, G*DDA#*IT, DID I SAY OR WRITE THAT IT MIGHT BE NECESSARY TO KILL A MILLION ARABS?

You lied. You deliberately lied. And both of us know it. Cite the post in which I advocate killing a million Arabs. I demand that you do so, immediately. You can't, and you know it.

On a much lighter note, how was "strength through joy" for your crowd last summer?

I'm sure you folks had great fun.

Just so the superior beings like yourself and those you favor conquer the region and establish a world order.

Again, another lie.

You National Socialists just can't stop lying, can't you? When did I advocate world conquest in the name of Christendom? Would you kindly demonstrate for the rest of the viewers on this thread when I posted such an opinion?

You can't, can you? The more you lie, the smaller you look.

Now I hate to change the subject, but what are you going to do this summer?

I thought so. Don't forget to burn those Torah scrolls. Got to keep up with the French, you know.

The last time somebody thought like this fifty million people died.

Oh, you'd be talking about Chairman Mao. He was responsible for the death of sixty million Chinese, give or take a few million. Sorry, I don't think like Mao. Gotta swim the Yangtze, now....

Whatever you have to say after that is not worth listening to.

Oh, isn't this rich! You set up a bogus argument made up of a combination of Palestinian lies, half-truths, Fleet Street hyperbole, and your own fine mixture of errant balderdash, then run away, run away as fast as you can all the while claiming that I'm not worth listening to!

You cheap little clown! You can't get away with that! You can't just drop an intellectual turd in the middle of cyberspace and pretend that it's my turd. You just can't LIE, and then pretend that it is my argument that is in error, as you did just now.

It's all predictable anyway: Arabs evil, Israelis good.

Actually, it's more complicated than that: Arabs-witless followers of any self-important charlatan who promises to lead them over the nearest cliff, as long as said charlatan is really baiting the Jew.

Israelis: too smart to fall for that bullcrap.

Arabs: attend madrassas and other institutions of higher learning so that they might lead the Arab world into the radiant future, also known as the Ninth Century.

Israelis: working on high-energy physics even as we speak. Filthy, money-grubbing Jews!

Hate to interrupt, Feenian, but did you give to the Winter Relief?

Give till it hurts!

But let's not stop there, my Arafat-believing friend.

Arabs lie, Israelis tell truth.

Actually, both lie and both tell the truth from time to time. For instance, when an Arab says, "Boy, that Hitler, he sure was a swell guy. He should have Finished the Job, by the way! Have you ever read 'The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion'? Wow, that really opened my eyes! Jews drink the blood of Arab babies at Purim.", he's telling the truth, at least by his lights.

When an Israeli says, "We never spy on the United States.", he is lying.

Arabs kill the innocent deliberately, Israelis sell cookies for the girl scouts. Yada yada yada.

Actually, Arab terrorists kill the innocent deliberately. Or was that Seder atrocity merely a figment of my fevered imagination? "Geez, I wouldn't put it past those crafty Jews to have blown themselves up just to make the AyRabs look bad!"

Israelis tend to kill the innocent by accident. Those who actually murder probably end up before a general courts martial, kind of like here in the states.

As to the Israeli Girl Scouts, they tend to end up in the Israeli Army.

Now that you've been thoroughly horsewhipped, Newbie, just remember one thing; try not to lie about what your opponents are writing. As you can see, I don't take too kindly to it, and neither does anyone else here at Free Republic. That crap might work over at DemocraticUnderground.com, however. Why don't you go over there? They're so pro-Pallie that I'm sure you'll feel at home there. Maybe you can participate in the group "Synagogue Raid and Kaffee Klatsch" that they're having there this weekend.

And see if you can come up with some better propaganda next time. The usual stuff from those intellectual gangsters over at The Independent and The Guardian is starting to get old.

Oh yeah, and enjoy "Summer Camp in Idaho".....

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[section9]

Bullsh*t. You're not here to exchange ideas. You're just here to drop bombs and then feign outrage because no one will buy into your rather warped view of history. You want to tell people they "think like Nazis"? Then be prepared to get your buttocks whipped but good, especially when you decide to play fast and loose with what other people post.

Now go away. Or, better yet, stop pretending that you've got a lock on some sort of Truth that the rest of us Freepers are too unenlightened to grasp. People who blow up civilians in restaurants on purpose are barbarians. Period. End of effing story.

If you can't agree with that, then nothing you say makes any difference. And you don't belong on Free Republic.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[CHQmacer]

I was the one who said that " We may need to kill a couple of million in order to make our point but probably not." in post #7.

I was refering to the fact that Arabs can't govern themslves except with brutaly repressive regimes.

The US is responsible for giving them independence. They are ingrates and blame us for all of their failures because we let them. Now our very civilization is threatened because of the weapons of mass destruction that they will eventually have. What do you think that these barbarians would do if they had nukes ?

It's time to take over again to protect them from themselves and the entire world. The experiment of allowing Arab self rule has failed.

If we have to kill a couple of million to get the job done then so be it but that wouldn't be necessary.

I've been in your shoes many times on freep. One of the good things about freep is that we can expess views that don't conform to the majority of the posters opinions. I appreciate someone being willing to argue with me. If it weren't for people chalanging our beliefs this site would be a boring waste of time.

Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular need brutal repressive rule. They can't live with anything else.

As soon as we make if very clear that Arab governments will be removed from power if they don't crack down hard on their anti-American press islamic fundamentalists we can start to correct the probelms in the middle east without having to take over the whole place or killing millions. It wouldn't take that in any case because they wouldn't resist that much.

Removing Sadam in a very aggressive way and setting up a puppet government with an American bayonett in his back would probably be enouph and would be relatively easy.

We need to put the 400 billion military budget to good use. Right now we're wasting about 350 billion of it while America and the civilized world is under a very real an serious threat.