The Question of Jerusalem

Oregon Magazine ^ | May 1, 2002 | Larry Leonard

[WaterDragon]

David Northfield, reporting Saturday morning, 04/06, on KGW-TV (Portland, OR), during tape footage of the "Palestinian" demonstration on Pioneer Square in Portland, mangled the news beautifully by just being ignorant. He didn't offer a single argument to the "Palestinian" claims. When done intentionally, this is called softball interview, and means the "journalist" favors the subject's point of view. That's called bias. When combined with a lack of interest in the facts, it's sloppy work, to boot.

I doubt if Mr. Northfield knows a single thing about the subject -- which proves he belongs in the mainstream media, where "broadcast journalist" is an oxymoron.

Here's what he should have known before airing a report on the subject. Not that he would have used it all. It's what in the news business is known as background research. Media outlets, if they are to be considered credible, must find out this sort of information before dealing with a major news topic. Just sticking a microphone in somebody's face and asking them how they feel is not enough. He could have learned what you are about to read in a half an hour on the internet, but it seems that as far as he is concerned, you aren't worth ten minutes of research.

For a long time prior to the Roman occupation adjacent to the time of Christ, the residents of the area in dispute were referred to in the Old Testament of the Christian Bible (taken from the Jewish Torah) as Canaanites. They had no connection with Islam because the religion would not be created for another thirty-five centuries, give or take a few. The Romans (probably in deference ot local custom) took to calling it "Palestinia," from which we get Palestine, but it isn't in any Latin lexicon to which I have personal or internet access. Arabic is said to have a similar word, falestyn, but no dictionary of that tongue I have found includes the term. The only internet reference to it seems to be in modern documents written in the Russian language. That's a dead end, too, because Russian dictionaries I've checked don't include it, either.

My research on the broader subject indicates that before the land was called Canaan (the Promised Land of the Torah and Old Testament), the area was made up of city states with kings -- quite similar to patterns familiar to students of Athenian/Spartan Greece. Like the inhabitants of ancient Greece, classical Rome and even a great many in modern India, the people of the land to be called Canaan were polytheists. The idea of monotheism (the worship of a single god) seems to have first developed in the tribes of Iron Age Juday, which, if my information is correct, worshipped Yaweh -- the deity today called God by Christians and Allah by Moslems...(snip)

The reason why this matters is that an Arab Mr. Northfield's camera caught on tape said that "Palestinians" have a "right" to include Jerusalem in any settlement because it is their holy capitol. Jerusalem, however, was not founded by Moslems.

It was originally called Urusalim (see historical descriptive below) by the city's earliest residents, the Jebusites. Probably most of them were Semites. (With the possible exception of the lighter-skinned, blue-eyed Circassians, all Arabs are Semitic. So are Jews.) God only knows who the Jebusites prayed to. It could have been "Shalem". Maybe a god named "Jebu". It is certain that none were Moslems. When the legendary King David won the city in battle, he renamed it after himself. Sometime after that it got its current name, which is similar to the Jebusite original but in Hebrew is a word that means "city of peace". Considering its long history of warfare, it's an ironic title....(snip)

[William Terrell]

They are the only ones who are likely to, for the others are mixed into various non-Jewish nations of the world and are not aware of their part-Judaic or Abrahamic descent.

Do you really think that matters? I'm sure at some point they will. I don't think those members of Tribe Judah that have mixed with non Judah members will lose their heritage.

To claim an inheritance from deceased A, descendant B would first HAVE TO KNOW he WAS so descended, and that test is flunked.

I doubt it. The seed of Abraham is the seed of Abraham. I'm not aware lack of memory of that constitutes disenfranchisement. I'd be willing to look at the law claiming it.

I know what you mean of course, that when Elijah comes he will make these genealogies plain, and many non-Jews and anti-Semites will learn of significant Jewish bloodlines in their past, whether in antiquity, medieval ages, or modernity. Will they then claim something based upon that?

I think you mean significant House of Israel bloodlines. I have no prediction of how this will come about.

I do not know, but it is very, very, likely that the great majority of these have already historically been Christian and thus saved under another method. Those living today may have apostasised like their fellow-former-CINO's-- but they might be just as likely, if they suddenly "got religion," to "get" evangelical Christianity as Judaism, imho.

While I have no prediction, I'm sure that a choice will be given. I don't think that choice has been given to date. Too much ignorance about the nature of things abounds. A true choice can only depend on knowledge.

[LostTribe]

Oops. Judasim=Judaism.

[crystalk]

We would deny, of course, that Judaism whatever its faults, is ipso facto legalistic, and we would contend that the original covenant of God with Israel made at Sinai is just as valid as it ever was, and every day some are being saved under it...

[crystalk]

Those who hold the views I term "cultic" about the idea that various tribes were or are "lost," or that they "became" certain modern nations such as the British, Irish, or Celts generally, or Brythonic/Bretonic generally, or Anglo-Saxons generally...

I am not interested in those views, and I do not expect G-d to do anything in the final ages wrt those nations per se.

I do think that the USA's unhypehenated per se, as the ehrtsot ha-Breet, is/are a sort of second Israel, not according to fleshly descent FTMP, but according to the spirit, and that they/we represent Efraim in the end-time prophecies FWIW.

This is hardly a critical or important matter to me, and I never bother to teach on it.

[LostTribe]

>... I term "cultic" about the idea that various tribes were or are "lost," or
that they "became" ... Celts

Ah, too bad.  Then I must view those who would steal the name Israelite as no better than common Claim Jumpers, Thieves of the good names of others, and who attempt to justify their greedy, clutching, grasping actions by subverting the word of God.  These are the true Cultists, no better than the Jim Jones cults of history.

>I am not interested in those views, and I do not expect G-d to do anything in the final ages wrt
those nations per se.

It IS a pain to have to redo lecture notes. I know from experience teaching Graduate School at two of the nations finest.

After all, retirement is probably less than 20 years away, so why bother?  If you put the lecture notes in plastic sheet binders the actual paper may also last until retirement.  And with a little luck, new discoveries and ideas will not close in about you so closely that others will note you have become quite stale and obsolete.

>This is hardly a critical or important matter to me, and I never bother to teach on it.

Clearly it is not important to you.  It is not important to teach students the truth, only what is in the sullabus.  Accuracy in Academia is not important, for in the end only Tenure counts.

Have a  nice undistrubed day.  Sleep well.

-LT
 

[Chunga]

"Ah, too bad. Then I must view those who would steal the name Israelite as no better than common Claim Jumpers, Thieves of the good names of others, and who attempt to justify their greedy, clutching, grasping actions by subverting the word of God. These are the true Cultists, no better than the Jim Jones cults of history."

Who has stolen the name "Israelite?" Who are these Claim Jumpers and Thieves, these Greedy, Clutching Graspers?

Will you plainly tell me to whom you refer?

[LostTribe]

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

[Chunga]

Will you tell me to whom you refer?

[Chunga]

"I must view those who would steal the name Israelite..."

LostTribe:

Do you believe the people living in Israel today who claim to be Jews are Israelites, descended from Jacob?

[Chunga]

"I must view those who would steal the name Israelite..."

LostTribe:

Do you believe the people living in Israel today who claim to be Jews are Israelites, descended from Jacob?

[William Terrell]

I am not interested in those views, and I do not expect G-d to do anything in the final ages wrt those nations per se.

Hosea 1: 10] Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

[11] Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

What I don't understand is why people find it so threatening that there may be more inheritors of Abrham's covenant than previously thought?

[William Terrell]

The Lord got tired of this infighting, "iniquity" I believe He called it, several millennia ago but the future may be brighter. Don't you think this is sufficient cause for a true alliance between Israel and many other countries?

[Chunga]

"Don't you think this is sufficient cause for a true alliance between Israel and many other countries?"

I for one would like to see many other countries standing with Israel against those who seek her destruction.

The problem I'm having with the issue of The Lost Tribes is simple: Many who espouse the theories set forth by LostTribe reject the notion that the Jews living in Israel today are true descendants of Jacob. They believe these "Jews" are imposters, laying claim to promises never made to them. A previous post by LostTribe engaged my radar.

Some who espouse these theories (such as Arnold Murray of The Shepherd's Chapel in Gravette Arkansas) go even further...it's my understanding that he believes that Jews are descendants of Satan. He calls them "Kenites," children of Caan, whose father was (according to Murray) the devil himself and who actually impregnated Eve.

I think it's important to know with what and with whom one is dealing when corresponding back-and-forth on a website like this.

I personally believe that Abraham's descendants are far greater in number than is usually supposed, but it's important to remember that his lineage includes Ishmael and Esau.

Whatever God will reveal will be revealed. If The Lost Tribes populated Europe and the Americas we will all know it eventually.

[William Terrell]

Any historical data on any topic can be and usually is taken to ridiculous ends by sects of nutcases, and all areas of religion has its extremists. The Jew have theirs. I think losttribe is reacting to the them. His prior posts indicate he believes that Judah has the same claim as any other Israleite to Abraham's covenant.

The good Lord reveals His mysteries in His own good time. He knows who is what. We all just have to hang on to whatever rags of sanity we can retain until He does.

[crystalk]

What I don't understand is why persons such as yourself keep trying to bury under your prodigious cultic output, any attempt by mainstream thinkers to address Bible questions in a public forum to a general audience.

You already no doubt know the names of all persons in the USA who have the slightest interest in your theories, so why don't you just email your drivel to THEM?

You are doing your best to prevent any discussion or education of the remaining 99.99% of the population.

[William Terrell]

What I don't understand is why persons such as yourself keep trying to bury under your prodigious cultic output, any attempt by mainstream thinkers to address Bible questions in a public forum to a general audience.

Sorry, I don't understand the paragraph above. Can you rephrase it?

You are doing your best to prevent any discussion or education of the remaining 99.99% of the population.

How, specifically?

[Alouette]

For more details, click on my Profile.

You interrupt every Mideast thread with your one-note monomaniacal agenda. It doesn't make a particle of difference that various and sundry clans throughout history (the Pashtan, Khazars, Lemba, Melungeons, Comanches, etc. etc.) have some tenuous genetic connections to ancient Israelites. SO WHAT?? Unless they observe the LAW of ISRAEL (the Torah) they have no claim to the INHERITANCE of ISRAEL.

I clicked on your Profile, and it tells me that you are a cultist.

[crystalk]

You are so right, Alouette.

Even if somebody somewhere might be descended from Abraham, that means absolutely nothing until such time as they both know it, admit it, and start living accordingly and outwardly presenting themselves as such.

If and when that ever happens, AND NOT UNTIL, LT and WT may have a point, and such "self-converts" would, at that time, be deserving of my support, for one, for recognition as a part of the Israeli people.

I now call on LT and WT to get off this thread and leave us alone. What Part of GET LOST, DROP DEAD, don't you understand?

[PaulKersey]

I don't understand what you guys get so exercised about.  It looks to me like Mr. Lost Tribe is just bringing out some Biblical facts that are not widely known.  Nothing heritical that I've found, just a new way of looking at things. Are you guys minds all up and locked?  What are you afraid of?

If you would actually go and check the Bible instead of carrying on like stuck hogs you might actually learn something new.  I know I did, and I'm having fun following his posts.  It brought me back to studying the Bible, which is more than anything you have done.

Keep at it Lost Tribe!  Don't let the ba$tards grind you down!

[Chunga]

"His prior posts indicate he believes that Judah has the same claim as any other Israleite to Abraham's covenant."

But his prior posts don't tell us whom he believes "Judah" to be.

He hasn't answered this question:

"Do you believe the people living in Israel today who claim to be Jews are Israelites, descended from Jacob?"

It's an important question. I await his answer. Thanks.