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Smarter, Better & Home Schooled!
CNSNews.com Commentary from the National Anxiety Center ^ | June 17, 2002 | Alan Caruba

Posted on 06/17/2002 6:34:23 AM PDT by Stand Watch Listen

As the school year comes to an end, I was reminded of the story of a boy whom the teachers complained about, saying he could not learn, seemed confused, and asked too many questions. Today, that boy would have been required to take Ritalin or some other drug. In his case, however, his parents decided to home school him. He was Thomas Edison.

Home schooling worked then and it works today. In fact, home schooling works far better than the deliberate stupefying of the children passing through what is surely the most expensive and ineffective educational system the world has ever known.

The American public education system today is not about educating students; it is about indoctrinating them. It has less to do with imparting information and more to do with instilling politically correct attitudes. It is producing docile, ignorant people who know little about their nation's history. This is imperceptibly -- and some say deliberately -- weakening our society.

Right now in America, public school enrollment is projected to reach a record 47.3 million and peak at 47.5 million by 2005. Private schools had 5.3 million students in the 1999-2000 school year. By contrast, between 1.6 and 2 million students were home schooled in the US during 2001-2002, taking in every grade level from kindergarten through twelfth grade. There is, though, a surprise in that number. It is an increase of 500 percent over the number being home schooled a decade ago! The growth rate of the choice to home school is estimated to be between seven and fifteen percent each year.

In numbers, home-schooled children are a minority among those being shuttled through elementary, middle and high schools like so much sausage. However, when they are in competition with the products of those public schools, they leave them way behind. The headlines tell the story. Put them in a spelling or geography bee and the home-schooled child usually takes top honors. It's actually news when they do not!

Home schooled students in the U.S. score 15 to 30 percentile points, on average, above their school peers whether the subject is reading, writing, mathematics or science or social studies. The mediocre science scores of public school students were front-page news in January. In May, the news that most US high school seniors had a poor grasp of their nation's history was also on the front pages. Diane Ravich, historian and education professor at New York University called the scores "abysmal." Bad as the scores were, they had shown no improvement since 1994!

Despite this obvious problem, President Bush recently signed an education bill, dubbed "Leave No Student Behind," that allocated $49 billion to a system so broken, so useless, that is a national shame and a national sham. His answer? Testing, testing, testing. But! If you are testing only the knowledge that is mandated for the test, all the ancillary knowledge needed to actually understand the subject is jettisoned for the sake of the test score.

Currently, the U.S. is spending about 72 percent more on education than in 1980. After more than two decades, there is no indication of any significant improvement. Instead, this huge investment of US tax dollars has produced poor reading and other subject scores, static dropout rates, declining parental satisfaction, and mediocre US student performance in international education surveys.

The home-schooled student, notes Phyllis Schlafly, doesn't have to study "fuzzy math, whole math, new math, new new math, or rainforest math." They don't have to be taught "Whole Language, which fraudulently teaches children to guess at words from the pictures, skip over difficult words, and substitute any words that seem to fit the context."

In the fall of 1999, Ridgewood, N.J., students, aged 11 to 18, were required to answer questions about their own drug use, sexual life, and any illegal activity in which they had been involved. The 156-question survey asked students to name how many times they had tried to kill themselves, used contraception, or made themselves throw up after eating. Parents took the school system to court and, after a two-year battle, won a victory for the First, Fifth, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments.

Need it be said that none of the questions being asked had a single thing to do with whether the students had actually learned anything? Today's schools are about attitudes and behavior, not facts and skills. In September this travesty begins again.

(Alan Caruba is the founder of The National Anxiety Center and author of a four-part series, "The Subversion of Education in America" posted on its Internet site at anxietycenter.com.)

Alan Caruba


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: academialist; caruba; education; educationnews; homeschool; nclb; phyllisschlafly

1 posted on 06/17/2002 6:34:23 AM PDT by Stand Watch Listen
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To: Academia List;Education News;Homeschool; First_Salute; George Frm Br00klyn Park;EdReform...
indexing

2 posted on 06/17/2002 6:34:48 AM PDT by Stand Watch Listen
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To: Stand Watch Listen
There can be no doubt that children home-schooled by concientious parents who want the best for their kids outperform children educated in government scools.
My own 19-year-old daughter (20 in August) will graduate Texas A&M this December, Cum Laude.
3 posted on 06/17/2002 6:47:53 AM PDT by grobdriver
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To: Stand Watch Listen
We homeschool. It's been great, and I can't imagine we'd change our choice for educating our son. However, I dislike the tone of some of the pro-homeschool articles that seem to imply that all public schools are run by evil people looking to deliberately dumb-down kids.

That being said, does anyone have any information pertaining to the following little snippet? I'd like to learn more.

In the fall of 1999, Ridgewood, N.J., students, aged 11 to 18, were required to answer questions about their own drug use, sexual life, and any illegal activity in which they had been involved. The 156-question survey asked students to name how many times they had tried to kill themselves, used contraception, or made themselves throw up after eating. Parents took the school system to court and, after a two-year battle, won a victory for the First, Fifth, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments.

4 posted on 06/17/2002 6:48:13 AM PDT by TontoKowalski
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To: grobdriver
Graduating Texas A&M at 20 years old? You must be proud!

Could you share what education philosophy your family followed or what decisions were made to enroll her in university at a more tender age? Thank you.

5 posted on 06/17/2002 6:59:46 AM PDT by homeschool mama
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To: TontoKowalski
The only information I have on that is what I learn from friends whose children attend public high school. What you read (the snippet) is true....and then some.
6 posted on 06/17/2002 7:01:05 AM PDT by homeschool mama
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To: Stand Watch Listen
In the fall of 1999, Ridgewood, N.J., students, aged 11 to 18, were required to answer questions about their own drug use, sexual life, and any illegal activity in which they had been involved. The 156-question survey asked students to name how many times they had tried to kill themselves, used contraception, or made themselves throw up after eating. Parents took the school system to court and, after a two-year battle, won a victory for the First, Fifth, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments.

That was just one. The rest still give the questionare plus more the parents don't know about.
It's part of their "life file" for the Goals 2000 "changing society through the minds of the children" program.
Unless children can prove they "think correctly", they won't get their "certificate of merit."
Those who can read and "think correctly" get their diploma, for now. That too shall pass. One of the goals of the 2000 program is create "entire life files" to be used as resumes. Business will go to the schools for employees, rather than the employees going to businesses. That's why Homeschool Legal Defence had to fight the public "School to Work" programs. It left out private and homeschoolers out of the work force.
The schools are trying become the "unemployment agencies" for the country.
Get the kids as soon as they're born into a public daycare, keep them away from their parents influence as much as possible (before school, after school, free summer school, free food - the village!) and employ them until they die. It's the deal the NEA made with the Marxist, and it gives the NEA power over lives from cradle to grave.

When people say "indoctrination of little robots", they're not joking. The NEA is creating the worker bees, a slave type work force, for labor and the pleasure of the elite - too programmed and uneducated to disobey them.
(When the acedemia claims "tolerance" and lowering the age of consent, it's not for the sake of the children.)
Remember Hillary Health Care? Goals 2000 is similar.

7 posted on 06/17/2002 7:11:52 AM PDT by concerned about politics
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To: homeschool mama
Public schools are about to go under -- just like the Titanic. Long live home schools.
8 posted on 06/17/2002 7:22:29 AM PDT by Jerrybob
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To: TontoKowalski;homeschool mama
FYI...
U.S. Judge Dismisses Suit Over N.J. Survey

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF NEW JERSEY

here's a search result with more findings


9 posted on 06/17/2002 7:22:48 AM PDT by Stand Watch Listen
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To: concerned about politics
Please refer to reply #9 above...FYI...
10 posted on 06/17/2002 7:25:30 AM PDT by Stand Watch Listen
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To: grobdriver
We've been home schooling officially for two years. The older daughter (nine, would be a fouth grader) just got her Stanford tests back and scored "Post High School" grade equivalent on 14 of 18 line items. We did zero preparation for the test with her. She'll be ready for calculus next year. Her term paper this year was a comparative analysis of five works by Dickens. The only areas where she didn't do as well were those where they might have been testing for PC values. We'll work on her understanding of that crap so that she can navigate the minefield as she matures. I feel like I am raising enemy agents in a foreign country.

Her sister (barely eight, would now be a second grader) scored a 6.9 grade equivalent on a third grade test. I did do a practice test with her because it was her first such multiple choice exam with a scansheet. She multiplies polynomials in her head. Her term paper was on Verne. In our home school, we have spent the bulk of the time with her undoing the damage of two years of dialogue journals and fuzzy spelling, and that was a PRIVATE school (her sister didn't have that problem because her reading was stronger before she entered kindergarten). I have come to the conclusion that to preclude the damage in reading that a public school will do, one must have their child at a MINIMUM third grade reading level entering kindergarten.

These are bright, but otherwise NORMAL kids. I have seen no evidence of "genius." They work hard, they love to help, they are kind and generous, and they do fine with other kids. I have no desire to "toughen them up" with middle school viciousness. Leapfrog that garbage, meet the creeps in college holding the academic high ground, see them for what they are, and pity them.

11 posted on 06/17/2002 7:28:09 AM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: HairOfTheDog
FYI
12 posted on 06/17/2002 7:31:00 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Stand Watch Listen
bump
13 posted on 06/17/2002 7:33:21 AM PDT by tutstar
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To: Carry_Okie
Calculus at age 10? Yes, your kids are geniuses. Give credit where credit is due.
14 posted on 06/17/2002 7:36:43 AM PDT by fydelia
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To: TontoKowalski
"I dislike the tone of some of the pro-homeschool articles that seem to imply that all public schools are run by evil people looking to deliberately dumb-down kids."

That's exactly what the system was designed to do.


15 posted on 06/17/2002 7:37:50 AM PDT by toenail
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To: fydelia
Nope. It's the curriculum. We used algebra to teach arithmetic. By the time they knew their times tables they could multiply polynomials and factor quadratics.
16 posted on 06/17/2002 7:40:28 AM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: Stand Watch Listen
Having just completed our first year of home school with 2 of our four children I can say that it has been an amazing experience.

My wife does most of it, however, just to let nay Sayers know, I as a military officer who can be deployed a lot did take a 30 day period off from work and did ALL the teaching and home schooling. I found it to be the best month with my kids I have ever had.

No increased costs in clothing,
No transportation expenses except for what we WANT to do,
No indoctrination of our children by the state of everything we object to on moral, religious or personal grounds,
No problems with our kids coming home with bad habits or ideas from other children whose parents don't care and whom the state will do nothing about,
No problems with adverse socialization as we are involved with over 100 other kids through LEAH (Loving Education At Home),
Total flexibility in teaching and schedule,
Better focus for the children,
One on one instruction without interruption,
3 to 4 times the amount of education in less than half the time,

And the list goes on and on and on and on and on.

Home schooling shows the current system how poor it really is. Here in the police state of New York, they spend over 10,000 per student on average and yet they CAN'T produce students like my wife and I can. And we do it for less than $850.00. NEA hates us, many teachers hate us, liberals hate us, NY State Ed Dept hates us, Washington Dept of Ed hates us...........Fine. Let them. At least my children can read 2-3 grades ahead of any of their peers, actually know more about George Washington than most Elementary teachers, have already read the Declaration of Independence and recited much of it, Have read the Amendments to the Constitutions, have learned about the Federalist Papers, Know about many ancient cultures and religions, sing in a choir, and while the state says that my 2nd child should only be learning how to count this year he is already doing math that state sponsored 3rd graders seem to have a tough time with.

All this and they have more time for Baseball, Church groups, field trips, Air Shows, than any of their peers.

I'll never let the state have the most precious part of my life, my children. They do not deserve them, cannot help them and seem only able to warp them. I will, however, provide the state with intelligent, critical thinking, informed citizens..................the politicians most feared adversary.

17 posted on 06/17/2002 7:41:16 AM PDT by ICE-FLYER
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To: Carry_Okie
I have no desire to "toughen them up" with middle school viciousness. Leapfrog that garbage, meet the creeps in college holding the academic high ground, see them for what they are, and pity them.

Southpark had an episode on homeschoolers.
A boy and a girl were allowed to check out the Southpark Elementary school.
The girl became an instant whore, the boy a bully. The moral, though, was that homeschoolers have to learn to get tough to understand how to get along in the sick liberal world or they'll be too suseptable to influence when they do "get out of the hampster ball."
Southpark failed to realize that most homeschoolers will do their own K-12 and are adults when they have to stay in a box everyday with the liberal kids. They're old enough and experienced enough because the world has been their classroom.
If anyone is in a box, it's public school kids. They switch to the next box each year with the same kids who are the same age. The only thing that ever changes for them is the person who teaches feelings standing in the front of the box! How suffocating!

18 posted on 06/17/2002 7:43:12 AM PDT by concerned about politics
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To: homeschool mama
Graduating Texas A&M at 20 years old? You must be proud!
You betcha.

Could you share what education philosophy your family followed or what decisions were made to enroll her in university at a more tender age? Thank you.
Education philosophy? That would be basics.
Don't get me wrong - she can discuss Plato, Aquinas, Mill and such (well, maybe not so readily now, but she was exposed); She enjoyed poetry on her own so steering her towards classics - and discussing them - was easy... but the sciences, math, grammar are the building blocks.

I would also say that knowing one's limitations is important. Once she got beyond basic Calculus, for instance, I couldn't help her very well. We convinced a college math major from our church to tutor.
There are programs out there (as you probably know) for the sciences. For instance we used one retired high school teacher who retired and went into business teaching home schoolers chemistry and physics. He offered classroom instruction and labs, or just labs (and we taught the lessons using text he specified, and his lesson plan - but there are only so many experiments one can do in one's kitchen, with pots and pans for equipment). Again, she got beyond my education in chemistry very quickly (she graduates with a double degree: Bio-Chem and Math).

We sent her to a local Junior College when she started driving, and she was amazed at how easy the classes were. The SAT's followed, A&M accepted her the next year and here we are. She hasn't decided which graduate school to attend; she is looking for good Chemistry departments.

I think many more kids could perform at her level if they had less of the fluff and PC garbage we see in public schools, and more meat provided in a challenging way. But more importantly, when class material, and not what she's wearing, is the driving factor, success follows. I freely admit that home schooling allowed us to determine with whom she spent her time - and that was with our church fellowship or other home-schooled kids who were similarly guided.
You wouldn't make a meal by throwing everything in your pantry into a pot and letting it simmer for 4 years, would you? Neither should you put motivated kids together with scoundrels, and then adjust your teaching to the scoundrels.

Thanks for asking.

19 posted on 06/17/2002 7:48:18 AM PDT by grobdriver
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To: TontoKowalski
However, I dislike the tone of some of the pro-homeschool articles that seem to imply that all public schools are run by evil people looking to deliberately dumb-down kids.
FYI...Here are links to various education threads (also containing numerous helpful links)

FReegards

Public Sector Subverting Productive Industry
Source: Toogood Reports; Published:| May 16, 2002;
Author: Henry Pelifian

History of America's Education Part 2: Noah Webster and Early America
Source: Sierra Times; Published: March 27, 2002;
Author: April Shenandoah

How Communist is Public Education?
Source: sierratimes.com; Published:March 22, 2002;
Author: Chuck Morse

History of America's Education Part 1: Johnny is in trouble
Source: Sierra Times; Published: March 20, 2002 ;
Author: April Shenandoah

Audit rips Georgia schools' curriculum
Source: Atlanta Journal-Constitution; Published: March 11, 2002;
Author:JAMES SALZER

Why schools fail: Samuel Blumenfeld warns Bush's education legislation is ineffective
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: March 2, 2002;
Author: Samuel Blumenfeld

Public School Isn't Like I Remember It
Too Good Reports; Published: February 28, 2002;
Author: Phyllis Schlafly

What Is Lacking In Our Educational System
Source: Too Good Reports; Published: February 28, 2002;
Author:| Ben Cerruti

The charade of education reform
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: February 2, 2002;
Author: Dr. Samuel L. Blumenfeld

American public schools: Working just as designed
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: January 21, 2002;
Author: Vox Day

High Schools Fail Thanks To Grade Inflation And Social Promotion
Source: Toogood Reports; Published: December 5, 2001
Author: Vin Suprynowicz

WHY AMERICANS CAN’T READ
Source: Accuracy in Media; Published: December 4, 2001
Author: Reed Irvine and Cliff Kincaid

The Failing Teacher and the Teachers' Code of Silence
Source: CNSNews.com; Published: December 3, 2001
Author: Glenn Sacks

Time for outrage! Linda Bowles reports latest results in America's public schools
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: November 27, 2001
Author: Linda Bowles

Illiterate in Boston: Samuel Blumenfeld explains U.S.'s ongoing reading problem
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: July 20, 2001
Author:Samuel Blumenfeld

NEA - Let our children go!
Source: WorldNet Daily; Published: June 23. 2001
Author: Linda Harvey

COOKING THE BOOKS AT EDUCATION
Source: Accuracy In Media; Published: June 5, 2001;
Author: Cliff Kincaid

Why Do Schools Play Games With Students' Minds ?
Source: The Detroit News; Published: April 1, 2001
Author: Thomas Sowell

The Public School Nightmare: Why fix a system designed to destroy individual thought?
Source: http://home.talkcity.com/LibraryDr/patt/homeschl.htm
Author: John Taylor Gatto

Dumbing down teachers
Source: USNews.com; Published: February 21, 2001
Author: John Leo

Free Republic links to education related articles (thread#8)
Source: Free Republic; Published: 3-20-2001
Author: Various

Are children deliberately 'dumbed down' in school? {YES!!!}
Source: World Net Daily; Published: May 13, 2001
Author: Geoff Metcalf {Interview}

Could they really have done it on purpose?
Source: THE LIBERTARIAN; Published: 07/28/2000
Author: Vin Suprynowicz

New Book Explores America's Education Catastrophe
Source: Christian Citizen USA; Published: April 2000
Author: William H. Wild

Deliberately dumbing us down (Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt's, "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: December 2,1999
Author: Samuel L. Blumenfeld

Deconstructing the Western Mind: Gramscian-Marxist Subversion of Faith and Education
Source: www.petersnet; Published: Winter 1997
Author: Frank Morriss

Littleton Crisis to Government Control

The UN Plan for Your Mental Health


20 posted on 06/17/2002 7:48:42 AM PDT by Stand Watch Listen
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To: TontoKowalski
"I dislike the tone of some of the pro-homeschool articles that seem to imply that all public schools are run by evil people looking to deliberately dumb-down kids."

Ever wonder why the name of the program continues to change but the program itself never does? Outcome Based Education was seen as a failure. They changed the name to Goals 2000 and to Education Reform. Darn! Busted again, twice more!
Now it's "Testing Education."
Parents aren't stupid ( well, not all of them). The parents are loosing their Orwells puppies to this "new society " indoctrination, and they know it!
It's not the individual schools, It's the entire NEA program.

21 posted on 06/17/2002 7:51:44 AM PDT by concerned about politics
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To: TontoKowalski
However, I dislike the tone of some of the pro-homeschool articles that seem to imply that all public schools are run by evil people looking to deliberately dumb-down kids.

The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America, by Charlotte Taylor Iserbyt.

22 posted on 06/17/2002 7:53:07 AM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: Stand Watch Listen
I think one of the sad things about the public school systems is that most of the teachers working in them realize that there are problems, but most of them percieve that "their school district" is not one of the ones with the problems.

My sister-in-law works in a large, fast-growing school district in Colorado and she understands why we homeschool, and readily admits there are problems in the public school system, but she feels that they don't have that many problems in her distrcit. It seems like the old "we're ok, but they have some problems" syndrome.

23 posted on 06/17/2002 7:55:36 AM PDT by Pablo64
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To: TontoKowalski
I try to stay pretty quiet about public schools. I am grateful that I can home school and I don't want to rock any ego boats. Also, I have many friends and family members who went the PS route. They love their kids too and I'm not into insulting them. It has been my experience, let me add, that most of the criticizing is the other way around. I don't care but it hurts my son's feelings sometimes.
24 posted on 06/17/2002 8:02:49 AM PDT by RAT Patrol
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To: 2jedismom
ping
25 posted on 06/17/2002 8:03:57 AM PDT by madfly
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To: admiralsn
bump for later
26 posted on 06/17/2002 8:12:26 AM PDT by admiralsn
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To: Stand Watch Listen
Homeschooler bump!
27 posted on 06/17/2002 8:12:32 AM PDT by goodieD
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To: TontoKowalski
Try this link for the beginning of further info on the Ridgewood case:

Ridgewood, NJ Intrusive Testing

28 posted on 06/17/2002 8:13:29 AM PDT by KentuckyWoman
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To: RAT Patrol
It has been my experience, let me add, that most of the criticizing is the other way around. I don't care but it hurts my son's feelings sometimes.

What I am seeing is that this is rapidly dissipating. Most kids I meet these days are envious of home schoolers. The acceptance among parents is growing VERY rapidly. This isn't just a few pebbles, it's the first few bolders of an avalanche.

29 posted on 06/17/2002 8:32:55 AM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: grobdriver
Did you use any of the phonics games, 'hooked on phonics,' etc. that you could recommend?
30 posted on 06/17/2002 8:38:29 AM PDT by Barset
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To: Barset
Did you use any of the phonics games, 'hooked on phonics,' etc. that you could recommend?

No, we didn't use anything like that. From the time the girls were very small we made The Big Night Out be to go to Barnes and Nobles and everybody got a new book. Then we all went home and read (or were read to).

31 posted on 06/17/2002 8:50:50 AM PDT by grobdriver
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To: Carry_Okie
We used algebra to teach arithmetic

Wow. How exactly does that work? (I am so interested in this because I was very dissatisfied with my public school math education and am determined that when the time comes my children will have exactly the opposite.) Got any links about it? Also be sure to expose them to analytic subjects outside straight "math" such as symbolic logic, computer programming, etc., and when they do calculus make sure they are learning what it means and what it is for, not just how to solve the problems. But you probably don't need to be told that.

32 posted on 06/17/2002 8:59:01 AM PDT by fydelia
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To: Stand Watch Listen
I support Homeschoolers Bump!
33 posted on 06/17/2002 9:14:08 AM PDT by EdReform
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To: fydelia
How exactly does that work? Got any links about it?

I invented the method. We use algebraic operators for all arithmetic problems to break down the problem into easier sub-problems. Engineers use these methods in their heads. We use Saxon only as a source of problems and for drill work. It's archaic.

In our system, all equations for word problems have units, set operations, what we call "truth statements" (such as 1 dozen oranges = 12 oranges), and calculated identities (1 dozen oranges/12 oranges = 1). "We can always multiply any number by one." No hand waving allowed. This rigorous method makes word problems a snap. There is no "borrowing" in subtraction operations. We add another equation that equals zero to adjust the subtrahend. "We can always add zero, can't we?" Any time they apply a principle, axiom, or theorem they are to cite it as if the problem was a proof.

Rigor. It's that simple. Rigorous simple problems makes complex problems easier to do later. This is the necessary preparation that will make chemistry and physics far simpler to learn.

Also be sure to expose them to analytic subjects outside straight "math" such as symbolic logic, computer programming, etc., and when they do calculus make sure they are learning what it means and what it is for, not just how to solve the problems.

Symbolic logic will be taught after the first exposure to calculus (so that we can teach physics) and after an extended period of diagramming sentences. My hope is to teach them to convert sentence structure to mathematics. My goal is that they could do legal analysis with symbolic logic. (That is a skill that would make them truly dangerous.)

I am an engineer. I won't expose them to computer programming until they routinely see science in the world and have mastered paper else paper may too easily bore them. For now, the computer is a word processor. I do not want them thinking that the computer is the world.

34 posted on 06/17/2002 9:24:04 AM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: Carry_Okie
I am an engineer
Ahhh, that explains it ;-)
35 posted on 06/17/2002 9:27:36 AM PDT by Born in a Rage
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To: fydelia
Calculus at age 10? Yes, your kids are geniuses. Give credit where credit is due.

You may be right and Carry's kids may be geniuses. On the other hand, they may just be rising to meet the higher expectations placed upon them. In other countries Calculus is taught much younger than here in the U.S. and kids don't seem to have a problem with it on average.

In our schools we spend a lot of time talking about what the kids can't be expected to do, while in other schools (and home schools) they spend their time doing it.

Shalom.

36 posted on 06/17/2002 9:31:52 AM PDT by ArGee
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To: Carry_Okie
I have home schooled from the beginning and my son will be in the 10th grade. Mostly, people have been very kind and I try to return the favor. We recently moved and my son has had some trouble with rude comments. He is at a more sensitive age too. I've used it as an opportunity to teach him to stand up for his own beliefs and not follow the crowd. He'll survive it. Mostly it's because they feel threatened. They need to prove theirs is the best way. I can only say what's best for US, and it has always been home schooling.
37 posted on 06/17/2002 9:35:31 AM PDT by RAT Patrol
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To: Carry_Okie
I won't expose them to computer programming until they routinely see science in the world and have mastered paper else paper may too easily bore them. For now, the computer is a word processor. I do not want them thinking that the computer is the world.

I agree, but my husband builds networks for a living and he is insistent that our children will learn at his knee, which will be difficult to avoid since he works from home a lot, and studies constantly. I want my children to be able to interact with intellectual resources from any source or medium. He shares your interest in creating "dangerous" children, hehehe, and he does make good points to the effect that for them to truly be such in the coming era they will need to understand the fundamentals of computing and not be end users only. My dad is a programmer, and one thing I have been really surprised to learn from my husband is that the kind of network/systems/hardware stuff he does is actually more fundamental than (most) programming. When his programmer friends are hanging out here, it is obvious that they know much less than he does about what makes the machines tick. What kind of engineering do you do?

I have to admit that I'm not quite comprehending your method, I think I would need to see a full example laid out. I mean I think I get the basic idea, but I'm not quite sure how it would work on a kid who didn't already know arithmetic. You should really publish this, even if only on the web. There are a lot of people out here who want to teach our kids to really understand math, not just by rote, from the start, but are at a loss for methods. I looked at a Saxon book once, it looked just like my high school math books, only more systematic. But not deeper.

38 posted on 06/17/2002 10:18:12 AM PDT by fydelia
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To: Carry_Okie
"My hope is to teach them to convert sentence structure to mathematics. My goal is that they could do legal analysis with symbolic logic. (That is a skill that would make them truly dangerous.)"

Textbooks? I like Copi's.

39 posted on 06/17/2002 10:18:21 AM PDT by toenail
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To: toenail
We've already got it.
40 posted on 06/17/2002 10:27:38 AM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: fydelia
Precisely. Understanding computers starts with basic electromagnetic theory, proceeds through transistors, gate design, flip flops, Karnaugh mapping, assembly language, and THEN higher level stuff. It's just a machine.

What kind of engineering do you do?

From blue sky to product, that was my job. I developed (past tense) manufacturing processes and equipment for the medical and electronic businesses. It involved chemistry, physics, engineering, design, project management, finance, and construction management and regulatory permitting worldwide. I do habitat restoration as a hobby.

Since then I have written a book proposing a free market regulatory system. I am now getting it reviewed and selling it on a limited basis.

I have to admit that I'm not quite comprehending your method, I think I would need to see a full example laid out. You should really publish this...

Yep. That's another book. I've got a lot of them in me, but I also have commitments and limited capital.

41 posted on 06/17/2002 10:38:28 AM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: Carry_Okie
Nope. It's the curriculum. We used algebra to teach arithmetic. By the time they knew their times tables they could multiply polynomials and factor quadratics.

What curiculum are you using?

Got a grandaughter I am going to help with homeschooling and Math and am looking for material!

42 posted on 06/17/2002 11:37:16 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
What curriculum are you using?

See #34.

43 posted on 06/17/2002 12:19:44 PM PDT by Carry_Okie
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bttt
44 posted on 06/17/2002 2:46:07 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Stand Watch Listen
bttt
45 posted on 07/16/2002 10:56:56 AM PDT by TwoBear
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