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Who will build 1,500 power plants we need?
Houston Chronicle ^ | June 23, 2002 | BERNARD L. WEINSTEIN

Posted on 06/23/2002 8:16:59 AM PDT by Dog Gone

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1 posted on 06/23/2002 8:16:59 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
The train wreck is coming, and this time it could be on a national scale.
2 posted on 06/23/2002 8:32:56 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone
As a technician, then an instrumentation engineer, then a startup engineer, I have helped to build and commission the Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant, Palo Verde Nuclear Power Plant, Cholla #4 coal-fired plant in Joe-City, AZ.

I am available immediately.

Funny thing, though. I just did a search on monster.com. There is not one power plant startup engineer job listed in the entire united states.

3 posted on 06/23/2002 8:38:41 AM PDT by snopercod
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To: Dog Gone
Too bad that the US State Dept. and the US Patent Office,
under Pres. Bush (who should correct the matter with accountability),
continue to obstruct reseach in new energy production, and measurement, systems.

The US needs new sources and more efficient use
of energy systems.

The Constitution authorizes the State Dept to do other things,
and the Patent Office should obey the Congress and allow citizens
to their inventions (per Article I).

4 posted on 06/23/2002 8:39:30 AM PDT by Diogenesis
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To: Dog Gone
In Iowa, we will be building two new coal fired plants in the next 5-10 years. Rec'd approval to build one by Des Moines and in Council Bluffs (across river from Omaha, Nebraska).
5 posted on 06/23/2002 8:42:16 AM PDT by Mean Daddy
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To: Diogenesis
What obstruction?

Invent away.

6 posted on 06/23/2002 8:50:41 AM PDT by Dan(9698)
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To: Mean Daddy
Good for Iowa. We should be building more plants that use coal mined in the US. We should not be building gas turbine plants that use natural gas that is better used for home heating and chemical feedstock purposes than for electrical generation.
7 posted on 06/23/2002 8:54:09 AM PDT by Lessismore
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To: Dog Gone
"Much of this new generation will be fueled by natural gas."

Really?

Where do you think the gas is going to come from and at what price? Existing storage masks the fact that production is down and there is no sign the decline will stop. Adverse tax, environmental, and business policy at the state and federal level is destroying capital formation in this industry also and the consequence is that people are not drilling holes in the ground looking for gas at the bottom.

Moving unused existing gas here from Alaska or southeast Asia will have a real cost around $6.50 or $7.00 (not the $4.50 the LNG industry claims) and it will take a long time to get the facilities to move and use the gas in place.

8 posted on 06/23/2002 8:55:49 AM PDT by David
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To: *Energy_List
Bump list
9 posted on 06/23/2002 8:56:24 AM PDT by Free the USA
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To: Dog Gone
Read the newspapers. What ever problems the power companies/traders suffer is of their own doing.

What's lost in all the noise about round-trip trading and creative accounting is the fact that the United States still faces a host of energy problems but has yet to come up with any viable solutions.

On the one hand he rallies for "deregulation" so the crooks he described would come up with the solution on the other he wants the government (regulators) to come up with solutions.

(Texas') PUC staff suggests $7 million fine for Enron

the companies artificially created shortages on transmission lines by overscheduling power at certain times. Those companies were then paid to remove electricity from the state's power grid so other providers could meet their demand.

The PUC report said Enron Power Marketing, or EPMI, a unit of Enron Corp., engaged in "enormous overscheduling" of power during a test of the deregulated market.

a fact the staff took into consideration in recommending the hefty fine. Lanford said other factors are the "egregiousness and repetition of the violations" and "previous history of violations."

Enron scheduled load more than 500,000 percent over its power needed to cover the demand in the north zone and more than 1,000,000 percent over its actual load for the west zone.

Reliant Energy Services earned $3.5 million by overscheduling power last summer.

There's an example of deregulation Texas style. Deregulation is at best a joke and at it's worst a scam on the captive rate payers.

10 posted on 06/23/2002 8:57:31 AM PDT by lewislynn
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To: Dog Gone
The answer is.........AlGore........unless he has too many iced tea breaks. Al can get it done (he is changing his stripes) if he can avoid the iced tea breaks.......out of the room, out of sight, and totally unknowing !!!
11 posted on 06/23/2002 9:00:09 AM PDT by ChasingFletch
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To: Mean Daddy
I don't know about Iowa's power needs, but two new power plants for the state in the next 10 years doesn't seem like enough to me.

We need 1500 additional plants in the country within the next 20 years. California is doing its best to make sure they're not built in their state or across the border in Mexico.

So, who's going to build them?

12 posted on 06/23/2002 9:01:09 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: lewislynn
Ah, I was hoping the biggest fan of government regulation would drop by....
13 posted on 06/23/2002 9:06:25 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone
The Greenie-Weenies are trying to stop the growth of industry in this country. They de-cry coal fired plants as "dirty" yet they also try to block any attempts at new Nuclear and Hydro-electric projects as well. Solar and wind-driven generation is a joke using current technology. The only thing keeping widespread use of electric vehicles from happening is current battery technology. Imagine the electrical demands if everyone was recharging thier cars on a daily basis?

Coal-fired plants are the only way to currently meet demand. The same people who say we must lessen our dependence on foreign oil are many of the same that supported the Clinton administration making the largest reserve of high-grade coal in the world part of a "wildlife preserve".

If we are serious about ending this impending "crisis", Let us all encourage the Bush administration to reverse this idiocy and open up the vast coal fields and give incentives to companies to build more coal-fired plants.

A local inventor has developed a process for burning even high-sulpher content coal cleanly without the use of scrubbers.

See this story: http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/02/06/18534925.shtml?Element_ID=18534925

14 posted on 06/23/2002 9:13:10 AM PDT by maximus@Nashville
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To: maximus@Nashville
My brother is one of those greenie-weenies, and he told me last week that humans simply can't keep exploiting natural resources like oil and coal. We must, he said, use renewable energy sources like wind and solar.

I asked him what exactly he was saving the oil and coal for. The question floored him, and all he could eventually stammer out was that the question was absurd.

15 posted on 06/23/2002 9:27:15 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone
Ah, I was hoping the biggest fan of government regulation would drop by

Very funny, even semi-intelligent since you think government regulators would actually "deregulate" themselves. .... But given the facts of phony deregulation, what else could you say?

16 posted on 06/23/2002 9:33:54 AM PDT by lewislynn
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To: lewislynn
You are still stuck in the mindset that California's failed attempt to deregulate the power market was both a premeditated plot and the model for all deregulation for the industry. It was neither.

Other industries have been successfully deregulated, and the power business will, too, unless enough ignorant people block it.

17 posted on 06/23/2002 9:49:46 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: snopercod
There aren't any jobs for start up engineers right now. The industry has adapted to lean times. Usually the project engineer has to change hats and go commision his own project. It takes weeks to read, evaluate, and make proposals on rfq's, of which only a few result in any work. This is due to understaffing and heavy competion for contracts. I've worked at two companies specializing in power plant in the last four years and both have had lay offs.
18 posted on 06/23/2002 9:55:55 AM PDT by SSN558
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To: Dog Gone
Much of this new generation will be fueled by natural gas.

I remain skeptical of the "deregulation" panacea, not only because of the fincancial gymnastics by which Enron screwed their own stockholders, but also because the focus is merely on financial deregulation, not of the other burderns that are placed on various forms of power generation.

IMHO, even those companies that are innocent of Enron type misbehavior are still short-sighted in their investments. Natural gas is the "easiest" route to take because it is so clean-burning. But what happens in aggregate if, as a nation, we put all our eggs into the natural gas basket? (including automobile companies looking to replace gasoline engines with natural gas powere fuel cells?)

Additionally, many of the natural gas plants being built are smaller "peaker" units. While these may be financially "efficient" (minimal investment, maximum revenue charged at "peak" rates), they are still not as "efficient" as the very large "base-load" power plants which require a much larger investment initially.

Prior to the deregulation phenomena, the "public utility" model served our nation well for many, many decades. To date, deregulation has yet to prove itself. Yes we need more power plants, both to replace antiquated plants in addition to satisfying new demand created by growth. But what we need to emphasize are the large base-load plants: nuclear and clean-coal technologies. Not over-reliance on a slew of little natural-gas peaker units misapplied to base-load demand.

19 posted on 06/23/2002 9:59:56 AM PDT by Willie Green
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To: lewislynn; Dog Gone
You need to be a little more focused here.

Reliant Energy Services earned $3.5 million by overscheduling power last summer.
This is a substantial amount of money, but it's so little compared to the magnitude of the overall energy crisis that it makes me wonder what's going on here.

There's no way you can shift blame from Davis to energy companies unless you find profits that are substantial, not puny.

Dog Gone, I'm about to make a very small investment in Calpine. I remember you were broadly against it; could you summarize your reasons again? It seems to me that Calpine was unfairly tarred with the Enron brush, and so it should pop back up to a higher amount, say $20 or so from its current value of under $10. I have a great deal of respect for your judgement in these matters, so your ideas would be appreciated.

D

20 posted on 06/23/2002 10:02:45 AM PDT by daviddennis
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