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COSTLY LAWSUITS PROVIDE KINDLING FOR FOREST BLAZES
The Arizona Republic ^ | June 25, 2002 | Rep. Jeff Flake(AZ)

Posted on 07/04/2002 7:52:27 AM PDT by madfly

Driving through evacuated Show Low last night, an illuminated sign at a vacant fast food restaurant reading "Everything's Peachy" was hard to miss. That phrase may have described the restaurant's new product line, but it is a far cry from the situation here in the White Mountains.

Having grown up in the area, I thought I would be prepared for the devastation as I toured the fire's perimeter. The destruction is much more complete than I thought possible. As of Monday, more than 300,000 acres have burned in "Rodeo-Chediski" fires alone, with the lightning season yet to come.

As serious as these fires have been, they only serve to warn of heightened fire devastation in the future.

While the fire still burns, it is not too early to take stock of how we got into this situation and consider what we must do to decrease the likelihood that these conditions will exist in the future. The current drought conditions are out of our hands, as they will be in the future. What is not out of our hands is the condition of our forests, and how conducive they will be to devastating fires when the next drought occurs.

Over the years, fire suppression coupled with a reduction in logging on the national forests and public lands have resulted in previously spacious forests now crammed with trees and dense underbrush. An acre of forest that used to hold only 50 trees now contains up to one hundred times as many. The increase in trees, combined with dry, hot weather and the drought, has made all of these trees and brush into a fuel load waiting to ignite. Due to the increased load, fires burn hotter and destroy more old-growth trees than if there had been smaller, more frequent controlled burns.

The Ecological Restoration Institute (ERI) of Northern Arizona University is working to restore the forest and prevent crown-burning wildfires not indigenous to ponderosa pine by providing sound science to land managers for implementation.

Research by the ERI and Dr. Wally Covington shows that Southwestern ponderosa pine forests were open and parklike before Anglo-European settlement (approximately 1880).

Until the 1870s, natural light surface fires occurred every two to five years. Along with grass competition and regular drought, these fires helped to maintain an open and parklike landscape dominated by grasses, wildflowers and shrubs, with scattered groups of ponderosa pines.

After settlement, intense livestock grazing, fire suppression, logging practices and climatic events enabled dense pine regeneration and caused the previously open parklands to become denser. Consequently, fire behavior changed dramatically. These forests are increasingly vulnerable to unnatural stand-replacing crown fires.

Over the last 40 years the number, size and severity of fires has increased in the Southwest.

Forest thinning must occur to create a healthier forest that won't become a tightly knit pack of fuel for what otherwise could be a controllable fire. Prescribed burns can remove some of the fuel load, but it is necessary in some instances to cut and remove smaller trees mechanically.

It goes without saying that the funds generated from forest thinning will offset the funds needed to treat more of our forests.

The problem is, all you have to do is mention the words "commercial" and "forest" in the same breath and the local pseudo-environmentalist will file a lawsuit before you can finish your sentence.

The uncertainty caused by such lawsuits has decimated the logging industry in Arizona, and that has contributed heavily to the situation we find ourselves in today. It has been estimated that nearly 40 percent of our Forest Service's budget is swallowed up just fighting lawsuits filed by "environmentalists."

The bottom line is this: If we want to save what remains of our forests in Arizona, we've got to get a handle on the frivolous lawsuits that prevent us from doing so.

U.S. Rep. Jeff Flake represents Arizona's 1st Congressional District. He was born and raised in Snowflake.



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: California; US: Colorado; US: New Mexico; US: Utah; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: arizona; ecofraud; epa; esa; forestfires; forestmanagement; rodeochediskifire
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     Solar sawing?
     Those catastrophic forest fires burning in Arizona are now 60 percent contained, and Matthew Specht, spokesman for Arizona Rep. Jeff Flake, tells us fire crews are hoping for "complete containment by Sunday."
     Mr. Flake, a Republican member of the House Resources Committee, will no doubt be paying close attention to future preventative measures to decrease the severity of such fires, including controversial forest thinning.
     "Since the beginning of the devastating fires in Colorado and Arizona, many environmentalists finally conceded that some forest thinning is needed to prevent these types of severe fires," notes Mr. Flake. "However, one group, Forest Guardians, suggests thinning the forest using 'solar-powered' chain saws."
     Solar-powered chain saws?
     "I know my way around the hardware store pretty well," the congressman chuckles, "but I've never seen the solar-powered-chain saw section."
     Kirsten Stade, a member of the Forest Guardians, was quoted in a recent East Valley (Ariz.) Tribune article as saying the group supports forest thinning so long as it does not benefit commercial loggers and is done with solar-power chain saws.
     "We all know that some radical environmentalists have too much influence on our forest policy," notes Mr. Flake. "But it's clear that some also have too much time on their hands."

John McCaslin, a nationally syndicated columnist, can be reached at 202/636-3284 or by e-mail: jmccaslin@washingtontimes.com.


1 posted on 07/04/2002 7:52:27 AM PDT by madfly
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To: Free the USA; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Libertarianize the GOP; Stand Watch Listen; freefly; expose; ...
Sorry if this was posted already. Didn't show up when Searched for.

ping!
2 posted on 07/04/2002 7:56:13 AM PDT by madfly
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To: RCW2001; cardinal4; ValerieUSA; Republicus2001; joltinjoe; KSCITYBOY; GlesenerL; montag813; ...
ping
3 posted on 07/04/2002 7:56:56 AM PDT by madfly
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To: madfly
the group supports forest thinning so long as it does not benefit commercial loggers and is done with solar-power chain saws.

I truly hope this idiotic, anti-business line of drivel is spread far and wide across the country to unmask the intent and agenda behind these people.

4 posted on 07/04/2002 8:07:48 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: backhoe
We've got those morons from Forest Guardians in New Mexico too (Santa Fe naturally...). Just a bunch of mindless proto-druids.
5 posted on 07/04/2002 8:10:08 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: backhoe
Either that, or it is the group's way of saying they will NEVER support forest-thinning...

It makes one want to invent a solar-powered chainsaw, just to spite them... ;0)

6 posted on 07/04/2002 8:11:52 AM PDT by Chad Fairbanks
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To: madfly
Are Eastern Forests Next?

Dozens of homes lost, lives lost, habitat burned, timber destroyed and huge watersheds exposed to erosion. Before the fires are even out questions are being raised about blame, cause and cost. I will raise another question-Why are almost all of these catastrophes occurring on federal parks and forests? But you say that it is all happening in the west-similar fires can't happen in the eastern national forests. While I don't like to be the bearer of bad news, the risk of catastrophic fires in the eastern national forests is increasing. Hopefully, we will never see a fire run out of control from Atlanta, Ga. to Morgantown, W.Va., but every year conditions on public parks and forests increase the likelihood of such a fire.

When forests become overmature, overstocked and overburdened with fuels they become serious candidates for insect attack and disease infestation and then they become an even more likely location for a catastrophic wildfire. Today millions of acres of the mountain forests of the Blue Ridge Province approach this overmature, overstocked condition.

Ground zero in the Blue Ridge area might be Smokey Mountain National Park. When the park was formed the 550,000-acre park included some abandoned farmland but most of the area was either cutover forest or 50-year-old immature forest. Today the abandoned farmland supports 70-year-old even aged and overstocked stands of pine, yellow poplar and mixed hardwoods. The cutover forest stands in the park are now 110-115-years old and are experiencing mortality and species change.

Since the formation of the park there has been no timber harvesting and very little prescribed fire used on the area. So the park today is a tinder box of aging and dying trees with massive undestories of fuel waiting for the right combination of drought, wind and a match. Surrounding the park are several million acres of national forest land, including the Pisgah and Nantahela in North Carolina, the Cherokee in Tennessee, the Chatahootchie in Georgia, the Daniel Boone in Kentucky and the Jefferson and George Washington in Virginia.

Following WWII these mountain forests were managed rather intensively as working forests where extraction of timber on a sustained basis was a primary objective but wildlife habitat, watershed management and recreation received considerable attention through multiple use programs. During this period of active harvest and overall intensive management, overmature trees were cut and young forests were started and overstocking was controlled by thinning. Prescribed fire was used on some of the forests to reduce the threat of wildfire. Thus, the likelihood of a catastrophic wildfire was reduced on these managed forests and they in a way provided a buffer for the unmanaged trees in the Smokey Park.

But in the late 1980's the mission of the National Forests in the mountains began to change. Many thousands of acres of forestland was put off limits for timber harvest by designation as wilderness or wild area or designated as an old growth area. Then in the 1990's the allowable timber harvest on the remaining national forest land available for harvest was greatly reduced. For example, in 1986 the Cherokee National Forest offered for sale over 60 million board feet of timber. Recently the Cherokee National Forest offered less than 12 million board feet for sale. So, today the volume of tree growth on all the national forests greatly exceeds the tree harvest and many stands are already dangerously overstocked. And as time passes, more and more stands become overmature.


7 posted on 07/04/2002 8:14:17 AM PDT by hammerdown
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To: madfly
BTTT!!!!!
8 posted on 07/04/2002 8:24:36 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: madfly
Bump!
9 posted on 07/04/2002 8:29:00 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Chad Fairbanks
It makes one want to invent a solar-powered chainsaw, just to spite them... ;0)

With a big enough solar panel, you could run an electric chainsaw, though it wouldn't be efficient for large amounts of logging. Scientifically, ordinary gas powered chainsaws owe their energy to solar, which ancient plants captured, transferred to ancient animals, which then left the energy behind as what we call oil.

10 posted on 07/04/2002 8:38:36 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: madfly
Bump
11 posted on 07/04/2002 8:39:59 AM PDT by zip
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To: Carry_Okie
"We all know that some radical environmentalists have too much influence on our forest policy," notes Mr. Flake. "But it's clear that some also have too much time on their hands."

Jeff Flake's another Arizona politico that will be getting a copy of your book.

12 posted on 07/04/2002 8:56:14 AM PDT by madfly
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bump
13 posted on 07/04/2002 8:56:42 AM PDT by madfly
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To: madfly
The uncertainty caused by such lawsuits has decimated the logging industry in Arizona...

Decimated? More like obliterated.

14 posted on 07/04/2002 8:59:37 AM PDT by uglybiker
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To: HAMMERDOWN
"During this period of active harvest and overall intensive management, overmature trees were cut and young forests were started and overstocking was controlled by thinning."

This type of management was known as "Conservation". The environmentalist movement ended the proper use and management of forests in the U.S. and replaced the conservationists in the USFS with the neurotic socialists that are wearing ranger hats now.

15 posted on 07/04/2002 9:02:10 AM PDT by elbucko
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To: Chad Fairbanks
It makes one want to invent a solar-powered chainsaw

I wish I had the graphics capability to do that!

16 posted on 07/04/2002 9:04:20 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: HAMMERDOWN
If there is an Eastern forest "Megafire", will the smoke and particles emanated into the atmosphere cause a "Green Winter"? Just thought I'd ask.
17 posted on 07/04/2002 9:06:34 AM PDT by elbucko
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To: elbucko
But John Muir was addressing the issue of Sustainability as long ago as 1870, in his articles, books and political campaigns. And he did more than just write, he fought long and bitter battles to save the redwoods, the watersheds and the great rivers of the West and to create the national parks, the forest reserves and the whole infrastructure of American conservation.
18 posted on 07/04/2002 9:22:15 AM PDT by hammerdown
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To: elbucko
My own sept brings up the bile from the back of my neck...

Bydand

19 posted on 07/04/2002 9:33:13 AM PDT by hammerdown
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To: madfly
A good PR move would be to call on the Sierra Club and other environmentalist groups to agree to a one year moratorium on lawsuits.

They will not agree of course. But it puts them on the defensive. They have to explain why they use courts and not the democratic process to push their agenda. People do not hold lawyers in high regard as it is, suggesting a reasonable one year hiatus on suits exposes the lawyers and environmentalists as the greedy fanatics they are. It also will draw attention to the fact that the Forest service spends 40% of its budget in court, not in the forests doing the job taxpayers are paying it to do.

20 posted on 07/04/2002 9:34:27 AM PDT by LarryLied
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To: madfly
I promise, I will get that attachment letter written and to you by Monday. Today, I get to lug 20 yards of broken concrete down a hill and set them in a wash (not looking forward to that job at all).
21 posted on 07/04/2002 9:36:42 AM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: backhoe; madfly
..the group supports forest thinning so long as it does not benefit commercial loggers and is done with solar-power chain saws.

I have to laugh at this so I won't cry...Don't ya wanna just slap the crap out of some of these people?

Reporting still live from Durango, CO, now home to the #1 fire in the country on Missionary Ridge.

FMCDH

22 posted on 07/04/2002 9:43:07 AM PDT by nothingnew
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To: Free the USA; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Libertarianize the GOP; Stand Watch Listen; freefly; expose; ...
Write Jeff Flake with info on the enviro whackos. He is on the Forest & Forest Health subcommittee. . . jeff.flake@mail.house.gov


Write Your Representative - Constituent Communication System

E-mail Congressman Jeff Flake
(Please include your full name, mailing address and phone number. All replies from this office are sent via the U.S. Postal Service. We can only reply if we have your full name and address.)

District Office Address:

1201 S. Alma School Road
Suite 2950
Mesa, AZ 85210

(480) 833-0092 - phone
(480) 833-6314 - fax

Washington, DC Office Address:

512 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-0301

(202) 225-2635 - phone
(202) 226-4386 - fax

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
Contact: Marnie Funk (Marnie.Funk@mail.house.gov) / Tracey
Lynn Shifflett (Tracey.Shifflett@mail.house.gov)
(202) 226-9019

July 3, 2002

 

Forest Subcommittee Announces July 11 Oversight Hearing on Cost, Causes and Implications of 2002 Wildfire Season
Will include forthright analysis of pros/cons of aggressive forest management

Washington, D.C. - The Forest & Forest Health Subcommittee will hold an oversight hearing on Thursday, July 11 at 10 a.m. in Room 1334 Longworth HOB on “Wildfire on the National Forest: An update on the 2002 Wildland Fire Season.”

Witnesses from the Interior and Agriculture departments are expected to testify regarding the nearly $400 million spent year-to-date on fire suppression. Scientists from Colorado and Arizona will be invited to testify regarding the explosive nature of this year’s fires and the available options for forest management.

Statement from Chairman James V. Hansen:

“We’re less than halfway through the summer and already the Administration has spent nearly every firefighting dollar it has on the fires in Arizona and Colorado. Meanwhile, five large, new fires have broken out in just the last 24 hours in Colorado, California, Wyoming and Utah. We’re out of money. Homes are threatened and lives are in jeopardy in some part of virtually every western state. This crisis will only get worse between now and autumn.”

Statement from Forest & Forest Health Chairman Scott McInnis:

"For those who have doubted or downplayed the seriousness of the wildfire epidemic on our national forests, this summer has been a rude awakening. 2002 is well on its way to becoming among the most destructive wildfire
seasons in American history. And if this fire season has taught us anything, it is that our attempts to reduce the threat of catastrophic wildfire on the national forests are falling woefully short.

"My goals for the hearing are three-fold: find out what additional resources the government needs this year to protect the many western communities in the crosshairs of wildfire, begin the process of separating the junk-science from the real-science when it comes to managing our national forests, and press policymakers and scientist to find out what it's going to take to get out ahead of this crisis in the long-term."

###

23 posted on 07/04/2002 9:46:32 AM PDT by madfly
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To: madfly
bttt
24 posted on 07/04/2002 9:46:48 AM PDT by Free the USA
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To: madfly
This reply says it all: "However, one group, Forest Guardians, suggests thinning the forest using 'solar-powered' chain saws."

How about dropping Forest Guardians with their solar powered saws from a Halo Drop to fight these fires.

This is their arrogant way of saying these forests will never be thinned.

Tie them behind some big caterpillars with chains and use the Forest Guardians as dust control devices behind the cats as they thin out the forest. Be sure to drag them about 5 miles before starting the real work to break them in.

25 posted on 07/04/2002 9:49:31 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: madfly
Its amazing that the enviro's can sue the FS and I can't sue them when one of their on duty employees burns my house down. I would like to see all the homeowners/ins companies sue the enviro's for their negligent and frivalous lawsuits against the Dept of Int and USFS.
26 posted on 07/04/2002 9:51:03 AM PDT by MP5SD
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To: All
Hansen is retiring. He is chairman and he's the one who went before Congress last year to decry the eco-nuts and their lawsuits.

Quick Listing of Committee Member Names

U.S. House of Representatives
Committee on Resources
1324 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-6201

107th Congress

The links will open the Member's home page in a separate browser window.

Republicans (28)
  1. JAMES V. HANSEN, Utah 1st , Chairman
  2. DON YOUNG, Alaska At Large , Vice-Chairman
  3. W.J. (BILLY) TAUZIN, Louisiana 3rd
  4. JIM SAXTON, New Jersey 3rd
  5. ELTON GALLEGLY, California 23rd
  6. JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee 2nd
  7. JOEL HEFLEY, Colorado 5th
  8. WAYNE T. GILCHREST, Maryland 1st
  9. KEN CALVERT, California 43rd
  10. SCOTT McINNIS, Colorado 3rd
  11. RICHARD W. POMBO, California 11th
  12. BARBARA CUBIN, Wyoming At Large
  13. GEORGE P. RADANOVICH, California 19th
  14. WALTER B. JONES, Jr., North Carolina 3rd
  15. MAC THORNBERRY, Texas 13th
  16. CHRIS CANNON, Utah 3rd
  17. JOHN E. PETERSON, Pennsylvania 5th
  18. BOB SCHAFFER, Colorado 4th
  19. JIM GIBBONS, Nevada 2nd
  20. MARK SOUDER, Indiana 4th
  21. GREG WALDEN, Oregon 2nd
  22. MICHAEL K. SIMPSON, Idaho 2nd
  23. THOMAS G. TANCREDO, Colorado 6th
  24. J.D HAYWORTH, Arizona 6th
  25. C.L. (Butch) OTTER, Idaho 1st
  26. TOM OSBORNE, Nebraska 3rd
  27. JEFF FLAKE, Arizona 1st
  28. DENNIS R. REHBERG, Montana At Large
Democrats (24)
  1. NICK J. RAHALL II, West Virginia 3rd , Ranking Democrat
  2. GEORGE MILLER, California 7th
  3. EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts 7th
  4. DALE E. KILDEE, Michigan 9th
  5. PETER A. DEFAZIO, Oregon 4th
  6. ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American Samoa Delegate
  7. NEIL ABERCROMBIE, Hawaii 1st
  8. SOLOMON P. ORTIZ, Texas 27th
  9. FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey 6th
  10. CALVIN M. DOOLEY, California 20th
  11. ROBERT A. UNDERWOOD, Guam Delegate
  12. ADAM SMITH, Washington 9th
  13. DONNA M. CHRISTENSEN, Virgin Islands Delegate
  14. RON KIND, Wisconsin 3rd
  15. JAY INSLEE, Washington 1st
  16. GRACE F. NAPOLITANO, California 34th
  17. TOM UDALL, New Mexico3rd
  18. MARK UDALL, Colorado 2nd
  19. RUSH D. HOLT, New Jersey 12th
  20. JAMES P. MCGOVERN, Massachusetts 3rd
  21. ANIBAL ACEVEDO-VILA, Puerto Rico Resident Commissioner
  22. HILDA L. SOLIS, California 31st
  23. BRAD CARSON, Oklahoma 2nd
  24. BETTY MCCOLLUM, Minnesota 4th


27 posted on 07/04/2002 9:51:36 AM PDT by madfly
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To: Tijeras_Slim; CedarDave
Cedar Dave has been posting about these Enviral Terrorists in New Mexico. As long as these Enviral Terrorists, the Forest Guardians are around with any power, they represent a clear and present danger to anyone around them.
28 posted on 07/04/2002 9:52:18 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: madfly
begin the process of separating the junk-science from the real-science

These hearings could get very interesting. Thanks for the Ping.

29 posted on 07/04/2002 9:56:25 AM PDT by BOBTHENAILER
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To: Chad Fairbanks
"It makes one want to invent a solar-powered chainsaw, just to spite them... ;0)"

Hey, no problemo--you just have to use "Clinton-think". To wit---ALL energy in petroleum and/or coal has its ultimate origin in solar energy----THEREFORE---ALL chainsaws are "solar-powered". Just truck on down to your local hardware store, pick one out, and "thin the forest" away!!! Stihl, McCulloch, Poulan, Homelite--all OK!!

30 posted on 07/04/2002 10:02:01 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: BOBTHENAILER; Grampa Dave; CedarDave; Free the USA; DLfromthedesert; Fish out of Water; backhoe; ...
This is from a post Last July by ATOMIC PUNK.

Environmentalists Organizations Exposed

Mr. Hansen has been championing this issue and has been attacked again and again by these groups. In January this year he announced he will retire. I hope these hearings bring him some results, after years of speaking out.

What is truly shocking is the amount of money these groups are raising and
spending, and they are beginning to hit the big-time contributions, millions of
dollars at a time, disappointingly, from such previously venerable entities as
the Pew Charitable Trust. This is how they can pay for millions of dollars in
slick brochures, calendars, videos, radio and television advertisements, all
designed to shock and stimulate individuals to reach into their pocketbooks. 

Like any other pitchmen hawking their wares, they use sensational pictures
and distortion of facts in order to grab attention, as some unscrupulous
marketers are prone to do. They take advantage of many hard-working
Americans who are too busy earning a living and paying taxes and raising
their families, who do not have the time to investigate the claims themselves.
These groups take advantage of people's natural goodwill and desire to
protect green spaces and clean water by asserting that their tax-deductible
$10, $20, $50, or $100 donated to them, for example, will keep those
blankety-blank, nasty Republicans or other Congresspersons from raping
and pillaging the environment. 

As it was for me as a young college student to be influenced by their
solicitation, so it remains today with many of us. Only there is so much more
media influence by those groups than in the 1960s. They have a very loud
and a very strident voice. 

When I hear the completely overblown rhetoric they put out about many of my
colleagues who are working hard, honestly motivated by wanting to do the
right thing by the environment and by finding a balanced approach, it can be
very disheartening. Some days it is tempting to ask why do we keep trying? 

Despite years of trying to reach out to these groups, to enter into a
constructive dialogue to come up with legislative solutions to vexing
environmental problems, all I have received is the hammer to the head. At
least to this point they have not shown an interest in doing what Isaiah
counseled in the Old Testament, ``Come now, let us reason together.'' I am
still waiting for the phrase to be uttered, ``Mr. Chairman, we would like to
work with you on that proposal.'' I have been here 21 years and still have not
heard it. Indeed, all we get is the fire hose approach of heated and hostile
rhetoric. 

31 posted on 07/04/2002 10:11:03 AM PDT by madfly
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How do we get Carry_Okie to these hearings????
32 posted on 07/04/2002 10:12:49 AM PDT by madfly
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To: madfly
AND...the obligatory chant...in unison with ALL my Freeping buddies, "We Told you So."
33 posted on 07/04/2002 10:13:36 AM PDT by Maelstrom
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To: HAMMERDOWN
Are Eastern Forests Next?

No. Liberals use the wood.
34 posted on 07/04/2002 10:14:58 AM PDT by Maelstrom
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To: backhoe
We need a list of email addresses of all the republican's on this committee. I call for a mass mailing of Carry_Okie's latest essay to these guys before the hearing, on the 11th. Calling backhoe!
35 posted on 07/04/2002 10:18:50 AM PDT by madfly
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To: madfly
BTTT!!!!!
36 posted on 07/04/2002 10:31:46 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: madfly
Bump!
37 posted on 07/04/2002 10:55:09 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Of course, you are hopefully aware that there are many people in the oil patch who are beginning to question the theory you espouse about how oil and gas are created?

You might want to do a little research as many of us are now convinced that the theory about dinsauor's and plant growth is false.

38 posted on 07/04/2002 11:24:37 AM PDT by rollin
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To: nothingnew
"...Don't ya wanna just slap the crap out of some of these people?"

I'd buy a front row ticket to watch that!

39 posted on 07/04/2002 11:43:54 AM PDT by AuntB
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To: Grampa Dave
Tie them behind some big caterpillars with chains and use the Forest Guardians as dust control devices behind the cats as they thin out the forest. Be sure to drag them about 5 miles before starting the real work to break them in.

Save your rope. One of the tactics these fools use is to chain themselves to heavy equipment in the woods.

40 posted on 07/04/2002 11:50:19 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Tijeras_Slim
bump for Forest Hearing July 11th
41 posted on 07/04/2002 11:56:25 AM PDT by madfly
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To: Tijeras_Slim
Good when they chain themselves up, start the equipment to thin out the forest. Nice of them to provide chains!
42 posted on 07/04/2002 12:07:26 PM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: rollin
Thats why my ol pappy always told me to drain my motor oil into the storm drain....He was ahead of his time. I will always be a recycler :)
43 posted on 07/04/2002 2:00:12 PM PDT by MP5SD
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To: madfly
Excellent information. Jeff Flake is from AZ, and I have heard all good things about him.
44 posted on 07/04/2002 3:07:50 PM PDT by Angelique
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To: madfly; All; Jim Robinson
Reply #31 is very telling. I am wondering if we should ask Jim Robinson to temporarily re-open the bump list to add a "firestorm!" ( or similar semantically-loaded keyword ) for a category for these stories so reporters, commentators, and researchers can locate them easily?

Speaking as an old-time citizen-activist, I believe the "forest mismanagement issue" has great potential to undermine both the Left in general and the more radical environmentalists in particular.

All living things fear and abhor wildfire--
It is easy to frame in terms favorable to our side ( sensible management of parks, woods, and forests... jobs for working Americans... public access to publically-purchased lands, etc. )--
And more generally just "doing the right thing"--

45 posted on 07/04/2002 4:11:28 PM PDT by backhoe
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To: madfly
Hi, I've been out for a while and am working my way up the chain of missed replies to me. You know my general list:

Ignorance Making You Ill? Cure It!

and while it may take some research to find committee members, it should be do-able.

46 posted on 07/04/2002 4:15:01 PM PDT by backhoe
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To: madfly
BTTT
47 posted on 07/04/2002 4:51:47 PM PDT by Jackie222
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To: madfly
thanks for the pings
48 posted on 07/04/2002 5:04:42 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: uglybiker
My strategy: Counter-sue the enviros! Make sure that every one of their law suits is countered with a massive class action suit brought by all the people that have lost jobs, lost their homes, lost everything, thanks to the fires the enviros are responsible for.
49 posted on 07/04/2002 5:14:08 PM PDT by Paulus Invictus
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To: madfly
bttt
50 posted on 07/04/2002 5:17:28 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP
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