BOEING RESPONDS TO FBI REPORT

7/10/02 | John E. Fiorentino

[tpaine]

What do you mean when you say "a flash from above camera range".

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Above the field of view.
As I remember it was a very short tape, shot from a fixed position, maybe a tripod, FOV centered on the horizon.
Cocktail chatter at first, people moving about, then the missle track up from the sea, the flash above, then peoples reaction, rushing to the railing etc.
I saw the loop played a couple of different times late on the night of the incident. Millions of us must have, - as it was either CNN or a major network that played it. I'm surprized you've never heard of it, considering all the controversy surrounding eyewitness accounts from shore being ignored.

[Rokke]

OK, I've looked at your Exhibit 18A exhibit. I'm responding on this thread because it is a little more calm over here. As I have previously said, I only have access to what the NTSB has posted on the web, so I'll take your word on what was in the report dated 1/24/97. Any idea on why there is more than one date for the report? As you have indicated in other threads, it isn't wise to publish parts of an investigation or theory until you are done with it. Has anyone asked the NTSB or anyone in the Sequencing Study about the changes? Obviously, there were a lot more folks than just NTSB agents making up the Sequencing Study. Boeing is very proud of their involvement in the study, and said so in their submission dated April 28, 2000. You'd think they'd object to anything that wasn't accurate given three years to review the study. Instead they say "The Boeing Structures representatives agree that while there may be unexplained aspects with regard to certain observations, “the facts and data on the whole support the sequence documented” in the Sequence Group Report."

[JohnFiorentino]

A NEW THREAD ON TWA800 IS POSTED HERE.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/727052/posts

[JohnFiorentino]

A NEW ARTICLE ON FL800 IS POSTED HERE.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/727674/posts

[JohnFiorentino]

A New Article on TWA800 is posted here.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/729346/posts

[JohnFiorentino]

It's been brought to my attention by some that another of my articles dealing with TWA800 is just "too unbelievable" or "way-out" to be taken seriously. I have decided to post here and on other threads the source verification for that article. The article in question is here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/727674/posts

Below you will find verification:


THE NEW YORK STATE EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT OFFICE
AFTER ACTION REPORT
THE CRASH OF TWA FLIGHT 800
17 July 1996 OFF THE COAST OF LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK



EXECUTIVE SUMMARY........
(excerpts)

One of the missions the Guard accepted was controlling all flight operations at East Moriches as of 6:00 a.m. Sunday, July 21. Helicopter traffic grew heavier at the small Coast Guard station as the recovery operations at sea expanded. Divers were ferried out to the local-state-federal flotilla at sea and investigators, dignitaries and families were being transported to the Coast Guard station for briefings, etc. The need for tighter control over air operations became evident after it was learned that for the first 2 ½ days, a man claiming to be a U.S. Army Reserve lieutenant colonel bluffed his way onto the Coast Guard site -- wearing a U.S. Army Reserve green flight suit and flashing official-looking identification cards -- directed landings and takeoffs. It was later determined that he was an imposter. On Sunday, the Coast Guard requested, through SEMO, a grader to improve the landing strip. On Monday, July 22, a new asphalt landing strip was constructed by the Suffolk County Department of Public Works with assistance from equipment provided by the DMNA task force.

FULL TEXT HERE

http://www.nysemo.state.ny.us/TWA/SUMMARY.HTM

[timestax]

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[Poohbah]

SAM shrapnel is considerably larger than 5MM diameter, because something that small would bleed its kinetic energy away very quickly.

[eno_]

I believe you are correct. Moreover, exotic ceramics have little value as shrapnel. Steel will do fine.

If this stuff is from a missile, I think it is from the joints of a continuous rod warhead. However I have no source that indicates that such materials are used in continuous rod warheads. I'm still working on that (not very actively).

But, if this is a correct inference, it takes us away from MANPADs, which are too small to carry that type of warhead. This is something I long believed: If it was terrorists, they used a boat. If they used a boat, they were not limited to a MANPAD missile. So the whole Stinger thing seemed like a red herring. On the other hand, if it was a friendly-fire incident, it would, of course, be a high-tech warhad on a larger missile.

Also, a continuous rod warhead would cut or break a plane in two. A Stinger might fatally damage a 747, but I think it would be unlikely to cause it to fail so totally before a single word could be uttered by the crew as to what had happened. It would be a perfect shot with a Stinger at the limits of its range.

If terrorists could acquire a SAM with a continuous rod wardhead at the time of TWA800, I think that is the probable answer. If not, I'd be forced to look at a friendly-fire incident.

[Poohbah]

I think it is from the joints of a continuous rod warhead.

Probably not--it would cause bimetallic corrosion.

[eno_]

I USED to know a thing or two about solid state chemistry, but ceramics were never my main thing. I have, however, never heard of metals used in ceramics causing bimetallic corrosion. Such ceramics are used often enough as bearings (not, notably in any 747 of TWA800's vintage) to make such problems widely known if they exist.

The only things I can find on the topic indicate use of cermaic call bearings helps with corrosion control.

[Poohbah]

The titanium and aluminum would cause the bimetallic corrosion in the expanding rod warhead.

The rod joints are made of the same metal as the rest of the rod.

[dljordan]

Exactly. Kind of like a shotgun.

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[eno_]

While you may be correct that the joints of a continuous rod used in a SAM warhead are made of the same material as the rod ( I still don't have a good source on continuous rod design), it is not possible for atoms of metal (or any other element) used as an additive in a ceramic to cause bimetallic corrosion. This has to do with how ceramic additives work. To sum it up, once they are in the ceramic, they ain't going anywhere, and they ain't reacting with nuthin'.

I still think that if it is found that a SAM of the TWA800 vintage had a warhead that incorporated such ceramic balls - in a continuous rod or other component - there is the smoking gun in TWA800. The parts described would have been cutting edge technology at the time, and would probably uniquely identify the type or class of missile used.