Posted on 07/27/2002 11:27:25 AM PDT by forest
Being of humble origins, I failed to see an iota of analysis or conclusion, merely the derision of others.
You wouldn't have a cake in the oven, would you?
As one of the "fringe", I thank you for the compliment! To have gov't grow 6% a year (lib dem) or 5.5% a yr (lib repub) or 5.0% a yr ('conservative' dem) or 4.5% a yr ('right-wing' repub) ain't any different to me.
Ain't it a shame that the political party that wants to reduce the size of fed gov't drastically, as well as restore the constitutional republic with it's 50 states charting their own paths of representative government, is considered a 'fringe' party?
Vote Libertarian! be one with the fringe.
I don't understand how you came to feel that I don't support a social safety net, because I do. The problem is, the method of providing such a system is unworkable (long term) as it is currently being practised. You must have personal responsibility and accountability, as well as a strong, ingrained work ethic, for such a system to work. Gov't social programs at all levels, as practised today, discourages all these things.
Before all fedgov welfare programs and most state welfare programs came about, we had a little economic downturn called the "Great Depression". You may have heard of it. Nobody starved, few went homeless. The feds enacted many social programs in response to it, and just about all economists agree that those programs prolonged the depression right up to WWII. Churches, charity hospitals, well-to-do individuals and city and county welfare offices helped everyone in need who showed that their need was due to misfortune and that they were willing to help themselves. The lazy, shiftless bums content with living off others learned quick that there was no handout for them.
Before the "great society" social programs of the '60's destroyed the black family structure, the inner cities, and began the destruction of medical care in the US, nobody in genuine need, due to misfortune, was turned away from those charities or local welfare offices, nobody starved, went without shelter or health care. Because your 'social safety net' hadn't yet siphoned off so much of a paycheck's buying power, most households could have one adult working to financially support the family, while the other maintained the home and raised the children to become moral and responsible additions to the community. Routine health care was affordable out-of-pocket to just about anybody with a job (doctors even made house calls!) and affordable insurance, or the now-extinct charity hospitals covered major health problems.
That brings us to today. Thanks to the republicrat social safety net, getting pregnant means a pay raise for a welfare queen that's never had a job, getting a gov't handout is as simple as mailing off a form (no face-to-face meeting to show genuine need or effort to gain employment), nearly a million people a year pour over the border and most of them go straight to the gov't teat, gov't health programs have so-inflated demand for medical care to the point that even routine health care is not affordable without insurance, taxes have risen to the point that responsible couples put off having kids, or leave the kids moral development to others, so both can work, old people get 'warehoused' in cruel, heartless institutions because everbody responsible enough to care for them is off at work, and an entry-level job doesn't provide as good a living as your 'social safety net' and is frowned on by those job-seeker's peers, generations raised on the public dole.
I applaude your good intentions, your desire for a utopian world of "from each according to ability, to each according to need", But it doesn't work! Good intentions are responsible for as much pain and suffering as any evil inflicted on man. We're an imperfect species. If you shelter people from their bad choices, laziness and desire to get something for nothing, you do nothing but breed dependancy.
Yes, I too believe in the social safety net. Mine is multi-layered. There's me, and then my family, and then my friends. After that, my community. God help me if my needs go beyond that, because then I would be humbly asking strangers for help in competition with millions raised to believe that a handout is their right!
Sorry to preach, I'm suffering from insomnia and freepin' is something to do. If you are across the pond, look around and tell me the multi-cultural social-welfare state is workable in the long run. Don't make that judgement based on the homogenous, hard-working Britain of the past. Interpolate from where England was in the '50's to where it is now, and tell me that it will be improved in the future & maybe I'll dust off my old books on Marx and give him another read.
The Marshall Plan and the TVA come to mind as absolute refutation of this bit of hyperbole.
As far as the title...Some Democrats are way over to the left and are clearly Marxists. I can think of a dozen off the top of my head...almost all of whom are associated with the Black Caucus. There are some Democrats who are certainly more conserv ative than many Republicans.
There are no absolutes and no future in constantly poking each other with sticks. We are all Americans and with very few exceptions, we are loyal to our country and fellow man.
Really? And what if the Dems had the Presidency and over 60 in the Senate and 300 in the House like they did under Roosevelt and Johnson? You dont think ther would be an ENORMOUS expansion of Gov't then? Nationalized medicine , Universal child care entitlement, college entitlements, etc? Would it matter to them that we stand at a high percentage of govt intervention already?
I think none of that would matter.I suppose theres a point at which they would go no further, but we're not near that yet; look at much of Europe as a guide. They are dangerous if given too much power, even if only for 2 yrs. Thats all they need, IMO
And yet the Democrats and the Left are the true incarnation of greed. Their entire philosophy is based on stealing wealth and property from those who have actually earned it. Their appeal is to those who envy the wealth and accomplishments of others. They buy votes by promising something for nothing, something that they will forcibly take from those who have legitimately acquired it, usually through foresight and hard work.
If that's not greed, I don't know what is. I do know what is not greed, what is not greed is working hard to make something of yourself, and thereby also benefitting society as a whole.
That's an eery parallel. I'd noticed it before, but hadn't thought of it yet in such chilling terms.
What are you getting at the gun store?
Agreed. 'Course, some laws they'v gotten passed are not constitutional.
Yeah, parasite is the right word. Socialism is nothing but a parasite that feeds on capitalism. By itself, it starves.
Torie's not pompous or anything is he? Though I agreed with one of his points.
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