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ARE DEMOCRATS SOCIALISTS
Fiedor Report On the News #280 ^ | 7-28-02 | Doug Fiedor

Posted on 07/27/2002 11:27:25 AM PDT by forest

We, and others, have labeled the Democrats as a bunch of socialists. Some are, of course. But, that "some" does not necessarily define the whole of the group. So, maybe we should reconsider. That is, maybe we should label them more by what they do, rather than just by what they say.

Socialism, after all, implies outright nationalization of the means of production. Government would take ownership of all business. Sure, the Democrats have tried to have government take over segments of business from time to time, but never everything in the country. They have never even hinted at making everyone an employee of the state. Rather, Democrats just want to keep certain segments of society as dependent on government as possible so they can control them -- and count on those groups for their vote.

Democrats, as a whole, are into control. That is, instead of government ownership of our nation's agriculture, business and industry, the Democratic Party favors private ownership. The responsibility for operation is then placed in private hands, rather than governments.

Under the plan of the Democratic Party, government will only control, not own, the means of production in the United States. That started with Roosevelt's "New Deal." Therein, dozens of regulatory bureaucracies were formed with new (totally unconstitutional) powers to regulate all agriculture, business and industry in the country. Roosevelt claimed this was done to fight the depression. But, even when the depression was over, the bureaucracies increased in size and power.

The Johnson administration followed Roosevelt's lead with the "Great Society" war on poverty. That cost the American taxpayer's nearly three-trillion dollars and did nothing except steal more freedom. The poverty level is higher now than before the Great Society programs began. But, the bureaucracy expanded considerably as government extended its controlling tentacles into our private lives.

Then came the environmental movement. First, man was said to be causing another ice age. That proven false, they changed it to global warming. Whichever. EPA is one of the most obnoxious and best financed regulatory agencies today. They control some aspect of nearly everything we do.

Then came the multi-billion dollar war on drugs. Again, Americans saw freedoms evaporate and the police state greatly expand. Today, a citizen can be said, but need not proven, to be guilty of a drug offense and, through unconstitutional forfeiture laws, government can take any goods or money they wish. A trial is no longer necessary. Today, punishment comes before trial. And that punishment is at the discretion of government agents -- who then get to keep all the goods or money they take for the use of the people in their own department.

Of course, we are all familiar with today's style of free speech, commonly called "politically correct" speech. The Democrats have even usurped our language. Like Orwell's "Newspeak," today's speech is often very sanitized. In today's schools, such a tight rein is kept on the thoughts and speech of students that kids will actually be expelled for drawing a picture of a gun or even pointing a finger and saying "bang." Cursing, however, is politically correct -- as is the free distribution of birth control devices and/or the distribution of literature promoting deviant sexual behavior.

Little or none of this is socialism. Therefore, we should now quit calling the Democrats socialists. They are something else. But what?

Well, they caused vast unconstitutional government programs at taxpayer's expense. None of these programs promoted free market solutions. None were ever used to expand individual freedom. Just the opposite, in fact. Every single Democrat program greatly restricted the freedom of the American people.

The Democrats mutated the federal government into a system of government marked by centralization of authority. The Democrats' programs put forth stringent socioeconomic controls. Now, with their "politically correct" garbage, they are attempting to suppress all opposition through terror and censorship. They label anyone supporting the Constitution as a radical, call those with religious convictions kooks, and say that anyone who refuses to associate with the deviants of society are dangerous. They become belligerent to parents who demand their children actually learn useful skills in school rather than liberal indoctrination. And they are even trying to tell us that a garden variety owl or bug takes precedence over the land use of humans.

The Democrats have a simple concept, actually. The activities of the individual must be subjugated to the will of the state. The state, then, will be directed by leaders like them: Democrat-Fascists.  

 END


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: censorship; democrats; drugwarfailed; epaphony; fascists; fdrnewdeal; johnsongrtsociety; ownership; politicallycorrect; regbureaus; socialists; terror
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The Democrats have a simple concept, actually. The activities of the individual must be subjugated to the will of the state. The state, then, will be directed by leaders like them: Democrat-Fascists.  

Socialism, after all, implies outright nationalization of the means of production. Government would take ownership of all business.

Democrats, as a whole, are into control. That is, instead of government ownership of our nation's agriculture, business and industry, the Democratic Party favors private ownership. The responsibility for operation is then placed in private hands, rather than governments.

The Democrats mutated the federal government into a system of government marked by centralization of authority. The Democrats' programs put forth stringent socioeconomic controls. Now, with their "politically correct" garbage, they are attempting to suppress all opposition through terror and censorship.

1 posted on 07/27/2002 11:27:25 AM PDT by forest
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To: forest
Nazi's then!
2 posted on 07/27/2002 11:33:33 AM PDT by Free_at_last_-2001
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To: forest
ARE DEMOCRATS SOCIALISTS

It's called a "question mark". Here's what it looks like:

?

I first learned about it in the second or third grade of elementary school.

3 posted on 07/27/2002 11:35:00 AM PDT by handk
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To: forest
Socialism, after all, implies outright nationalization of the means of production.

No, the communists tried that. It crashes too quickly.

Modern Socialist nationalizes the *results* of production. Income taxes, Social Security, Capital Gains, Auto Taxes, Death Taxes, Sin Taxes, Sale Taxes, Gas Taxes, etc.

Now what is the difference between subsidizing steel and subsidizing medical care?

4 posted on 07/27/2002 11:40:36 AM PDT by AdamSelene235
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To: forest
Yep great post I would like to add something else Democracy and Representive government always leads to socialism( taxes went up after the American revolution a monarchy is a better form of government).
5 posted on 07/27/2002 11:46:50 AM PDT by weikel
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To: forest
If you have absolute control of something...you pretty much own it, don't you?
6 posted on 07/27/2002 11:49:12 AM PDT by JessicaDragonet
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To: Free_at_last_-2001
I agree, call them nazis
7 posted on 07/27/2002 11:51:14 AM PDT by stumpy
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To: forest
Democratic Party favors private ownership

Not really, it's the lawyers, almost all Democrats, that favor private ownership, else they're out of their cash cow.

You could call Democrats fascists, however that implies they have a vested interest in private industry making a profit. That is not the case with today's Democrats, they have a profit envy problem. Socialism more closely describes them. And we must be hitting close to home because it really bothers them. The label doesn't matter too much though. A stinking rose still stinks by any name.

8 posted on 07/27/2002 11:54:29 AM PDT by Reeses
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To: stumpy
I wish someone with stones during a debate would say.... "I think that Mr. Kennedy/ Franks/Daschle etc..from the National Democratic Socialist Party would blah blah blah.." It would be priceless to hear the howls of protest since that is the monicker given to Republicans..
9 posted on 07/27/2002 11:56:19 AM PDT by Dick Vomer
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To: stumpy
They're certainly closer to fascists than communists. After all, it was the fascists who rejected the idea of the public ownership of the means of production in favor of control and regulation. Their logic was that the actual ownership of the means of production was unimportant; what counted, in their view, was the issue of control itself.

Of course, good luck convincing liberals of this unassailable fact of history. They're far too stupid to apply the Nazi label to their own fascist schemes.

10 posted on 07/27/2002 11:57:00 AM PDT by Reactionary
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To: forest
In a word, YES!
11 posted on 07/27/2002 11:58:13 AM PDT by reillyoburbank
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To: Dick Vomer
the National Democratic Socialist Party

The Nazi party still lives in Germany today though they have taken a new name, that exact name you just mentioned. They are Germany's Democrats, the main difference being they are socialists that are also patriotic of their home country.

12 posted on 07/27/2002 12:02:07 PM PDT by Reeses
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To: forest
Central planners have forever failed. The thing that made the USA different was its early implicit trust in the individual to make the right choices, to live his or her life as they deemed fit. Democrats have in recent decades wanted to substitute government choice for individual choice because they believe that some significant subset of the population is incapable of making good choices. This elitist attitude is at the root of nearly all our present problems. Half of our population are convinced that Uncle Sugar can make better decisions for them than they can for themselves. In a nutshell, that is what is wrong with our country.
13 posted on 07/27/2002 12:06:48 PM PDT by Movemout
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To: forest
Socialists? Why give socialists such a bad name? The Democrats are simply a group of garden-variety gangsters who have learned that demagogery is more potent than the tommy gun.

This is why they are so vitriolic against O'Reilly - because they can't stand the contrast presented by that rarest of all birds, the "honest liberal".

If the US was Russia back at the turn of the last century, the Democrats are the ones who would be nuzzling up to Stalin's sphincter!

14 posted on 07/27/2002 12:07:53 PM PDT by The Duke
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To: reillyoburbank
Maybe a better question would be:

Are the republicans socialists too?

15 posted on 07/27/2002 12:09:01 PM PDT by tcostell
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To: forest; Grampa Dave
Great article on a timely topic since we have a Governor in California that is totally into CONTROL but has botched the job!
16 posted on 07/27/2002 12:09:03 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: handk
The question mark was considered. Titles seem to be exceptions. There is much more to consider in this intellectual post.
17 posted on 07/27/2002 12:09:35 PM PDT by forest
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To: forest
"ARE DEMOCRATS SOCIALISTS?"

Hey, does the Pope wear a funny hat?

18 posted on 07/27/2002 12:11:03 PM PDT by Tacis
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To: AdamSelene235
It's the crash that leads to totalinarianism and dictatorship, which is their goal, IMHO.
19 posted on 07/27/2002 12:13:11 PM PDT by forest
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To: Movemout
This elitist attitude is at the root of nearly all our present problems.

I agree. And the root of their elitism is narcissism. How can they love themselves if they aren’t better than you? Helping the helpless affirms their superiority, is the much needed fuel to continue their love for themselves.

20 posted on 07/27/2002 12:14:30 PM PDT by Reeses
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To: Tacis
"ARE DEMOCRATS SOCIALISTS?"
Hey, does the Pope wear a funny hat?

Is the Pope Catholic?

21 posted on 07/27/2002 12:15:17 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: weikel
Our representative government would not be Socialistic if our leaders would simple respect the Constitution with the original intent of our Founding Fathers.
22 posted on 07/27/2002 12:15:35 PM PDT by forest
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To: forest
No constitution is so perfectly designed that socialist can't ignore it.
23 posted on 07/27/2002 12:17:53 PM PDT by weikel
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To: SuziQ
"ARE DEMOCRATS SOCIALISTS?"
"Hey, does the Pope wear a funny hat?"
"Is the Pope Catholic?"

Does al gore loose elections?

24 posted on 07/27/2002 12:19:03 PM PDT by ChadGore
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To: The Duke
I am reminded of the dims' vitriolic reponse to Reagan's "Tear down this wall" speech. He knew what was right and what was wrong. He stood up for right and the dims wanted to talk about diplomacy and statesmanship. I wish that GWB would make a stand and stick with it. His speech after the terrorist attacks was a beaut. It has been downhill ever since.
25 posted on 07/27/2002 12:25:37 PM PDT by Movemout
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To: JessicaDragonet
If you have absolute control of something...you pretty much own it, don't you?

Yes you own it without the expense of buying it.

26 posted on 07/27/2002 12:26:36 PM PDT by c-b 1
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To: forest
Democrats may or may not be socialists, but the Democrat Party has been usurped by Socialists. It is a party dominated by political oxymorons: organized anarchists.
27 posted on 07/27/2002 12:26:44 PM PDT by Consort
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To: Reeses
"Socialism more closely describes them. "

I agree. The Democrats may not be "pure" socialists, but their ideals are certainly leftist, that is to say, inspired by socialism. So you might as well call them socialists, since that's where there philosophy comes from.

Though I think any of the other names they are called in this article are accurate. For that matter, the Nazis were socialists and fascism also derives it's very similar ideals from the same roots as does socialism.

28 posted on 07/27/2002 12:30:02 PM PDT by Sam Cree
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To: forest
"Sure, the Democrats have tried to have government take over segments of business from time to time, but never everything in the country."

Au contraire, my friend. In the late fifties there was a proposal in the house of representatives to do just that. I don't remember the creep's name who proposed it, but he was a democRAT. The democRAT party identified strongly with the communists of the twenties and thirties and have never really distanced themselves form them since.

29 posted on 07/27/2002 12:47:32 PM PDT by nightdriver
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To: c-b 1
Yes you own it without the expense of buying it.

In my neck of the woods...we call that stealing.

30 posted on 07/27/2002 12:51:27 PM PDT by JessicaDragonet
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To: forest
i hate it when even conservative commentators get taken in by the democratic rhetoric. democrats are socialists, and they would like nothing better than to nationalize as many industries as possible.

democrats are certainly anti-capitalists. 'capitalists and the greedy' are their favorite terms to alienate people from the conservative ranks and make the democrats seem more compassionate and fair. the accumulation of capital to put people to work and forward the economy is not what the democrats are all about. they despise the wealthy and tax them as much as they can -- so they have much less wealth (capital) to utilize.

democrats are control freaks and try to control the popular news medium -- same as communists and socialists. free speech is out, debate is out. control is in.

democrats want to nationalize as many industries as possible. the most recent has been airport security. but they long for the days of government owned utilities. the democrats simply do it one at a time because it is more palatable to the american public.

the democratic philosophy of fairness, like marxist theory, is based on a biblically flawed ideology. remember the parable of the talents -- and i can give more.

democrats pass laws to have people check up on us. every beaurocracy in place has people checking something, be it the safety of cars, emissions from factories, looking into our lives, etc. the socialists do this to, with an explicit reason to keep power.

yes the democrats are socialists. they are willing to overthrow the government slowly, one at a time, through evolution, instead of through revolution as marxist predicted.

31 posted on 07/27/2002 12:52:15 PM PDT by mlocher
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To: forest
socialists...commies...marxist....scum of the earth
32 posted on 07/27/2002 12:55:04 PM PDT by arly
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To: tcostell
The Italian dictator Mousolini said fascism was a misnomer, it would more correctly be called corporatism. I would consider the democrats socialist/marxist, the neoconservatives fascist.
33 posted on 07/27/2002 1:03:33 PM PDT by steve50
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To: forest
Idiotism? Idiotists?
34 posted on 07/27/2002 1:37:32 PM PDT by VaBthang4
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To: Reeses
>> Not really, it's the lawyers, almost all Democrats, that favor
>>private ownership, else they're out of their cash
>> cow

When you look at the RICO forfeiture 'regulations' (for which we can thank dear old Rudy, hero of 911 lest anyone forget), the class action lawsuit nightmare, and the confiscatory taxation it's obvious that the attack on private ownership is well under way.

Given the propensity for the use of race and class divisions to gain power, the use of force to terrorize or 'send a message' so characteristic of the Reno Justice department at Waco, Ruby Ridge, and with poor little Elian, and the party control of the propaganda organs, I have little trouble seeing the democratic party as a National Socialist or Nazi party bent on total control.

And we, my largely caucasian conservative, christian friends, are the 'jews' in this scenario. Look at the way they talk about us. Like we steal from the poor, take unfair advantage, have all the money, all the luck, keep everybody else down.

I've had a feeling we've been heading for political violence in this country for over a decade, but it just seemed so darned unlikely. Well it doesn't seem so unlikely anymore. A couple more destabilizing blasts from al-Qaeda and I believe that it'll be on. And that WILL be a victory for them because it's wwhat they've wanted all along.

OK, gotta go to the gun store while I still can. Fortunately we can still resist and I live in a citizen carry state.
35 posted on 07/27/2002 2:01:24 PM PDT by johnb838
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To: steve50
The renowned Economist Frederich Hayek said that Fascism is what happens when you realize that socialism will never work without force. Once you begin to use force, you abandon socialism's ideals for fascism's practicalities.

A better source than a failed italian dictator I think.

The closest thing we have to fascists in this country right now are on the left, and promoting the idea of "thought crimes" (hate crimes). They believe in free speach, so long as it's an opinion that they agree with. Otherwise, they brand it as "hate speech" and try deperately to supress it.

36 posted on 07/27/2002 2:01:48 PM PDT by tcostell
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To: Reeses
The more I learn about this modern 'progressive' democracy the less I'm convinced there is any difference at all between it and socialism.
37 posted on 07/27/2002 2:03:21 PM PDT by johnb838
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To: tcostell
My apologies for my horrible spelling.
38 posted on 07/27/2002 2:03:51 PM PDT by tcostell
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To: tcostell
Join the crowd of lousy spellers!

My spelling mind quits functioning as I type at the computer keyboard.

39 posted on 07/27/2002 2:18:39 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: forest
Socialism, after all, implies outright nationalization of the means of production. Government would take ownership of all business.

I would use a more fundamental definition: Socialism is the dilution of individual personal strife, a risk management system, akin to a marriage.

Liberty is the idea that the individual belongs to himself and the earth first, and cannot be 'born into' such a marriage.

A free nation is one that acknowleges there need be no other impetus to an individual other than his local investment in the earth (property) and the love of his neighbor to insure the commitment of his very life, his grand asset, in defense of these.

These free people, sovereign men, create a mechanism to protect that 'way of life', to manage the overlay of civil functions so that these functions themselves remain congruent with the ideal of liberty.

Such a government does not 'force', the overlay provides the system of justice and law where the individual is supreme. That is all.

40 posted on 07/27/2002 2:25:26 PM PDT by mindprism.com
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To: forest
Political Thought

The Project Gutenberg EText home page gives information on how to access electronic texts in the Gutenberg Project. There is also a page describing other etext archives.
The ETEXT Archives.
The Seventh Seal has extensive links to ideologically oriented sites, including anarchy, communism, conservatism, libertarianisn, liberalism, nazism, and social democracy.


41 posted on 07/27/2002 2:31:32 PM PDT by vannrox
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To: johnb838

English pages

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>


42 posted on 07/27/2002 2:37:02 PM PDT by vannrox
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To: mlocher
Humboldt Library Site Search Catalyst Subject Guides Databases

POLITICAL SCIENCE RESOURCES ON THE WEB

----------------------------------------------------------------

Humboldt State Resources
General Sources
Thoughts and Theories
Issues, Opinions and Reflections


Humboldt State Resources

General Sources

Thoughts and Theories

Internet Archive (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/) ***********

Issues, Opinions and Reflections


43 posted on 07/27/2002 2:41:31 PM PDT by vannrox
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To: ChadGore

Political Stuff


44 posted on 07/27/2002 2:43:18 PM PDT by vannrox
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To: The Duke
If the US was Russia back at the turn of the last century, the Democrats are the ones who would be nuzzling up to Stalin's sphincter!

I thought they did. I also heard rumors (not sure, however) that one reason many Demon Cats wanted to enter World War 2, was to help the Soviets. Have you ever heard anything similar to that?

45 posted on 07/27/2002 2:52:03 PM PDT by Mark17
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To: Mark17
actually the war on drugs was a republican instituted public policy program.. I seem to remember Nancy Reagan with the JUST SAY NO!
46 posted on 07/27/2002 3:07:15 PM PDT by medzork
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To: medzork
But how does that relate to what I said? My thought, is that the Demon Cats wanted to help the Soviets beat the Germans because they liked the communists in Russia. I do not see what Nancy Reagan has to do with that.
47 posted on 07/27/2002 3:32:08 PM PDT by Mark17
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To: forest
Everyone shares the same philosophy: Everyone just wants the government to do what they want the government to do, and nothing else.
48 posted on 07/27/2002 3:38:14 PM PDT by ned
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To: forest
Oh my, what a silly post/article. The fringe elements on FR have it right; on the big economic and redistributionist issues, the two parties are not all that different, which is understandable since they compete for the same swing voters. Both parties are on the 45 yard line on opposite sides of the 50 yard line maybe. Other than abortion, most of the emotionalism we see here and elsewhere is over symbolic issues and personalities.
49 posted on 07/27/2002 3:43:23 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Tacis; SuziQ; ChadGore
"ARE DEMOCRATS SOCIALISTS?"
"Hey, does the Pope wear a funny hat?"
"Is the Pope Catholic?"
"Does al gore loose elections?"

Does a bear relieve himself in a densely wooded area?

50 posted on 07/27/2002 4:34:31 PM PDT by Still Thinking
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