The Meaning of Faith as portrayed in M. Night Shyamalan's Films

That is an assumption not in evidence. Are you saying an person of IQ 180 has some greater moral authority than a person of IQ 120? If no, then your linear scale is disproven and you have to seriously reconsider your belief system that God can torture whomsoever he pleases because of "property rights."

No, I'm saying that a species which has a greater degree of sentience has greater moral authority than a species which has a lesser degree of sentience. Particularly when the lesser species is the property of the greater species (Any exceptions do not disprove the rule, but rather prove it... you have the moral authority to grind a smart pig into spam, but not an infant or severly-retarded human).

If you do not believe this, then I must ask you again to answer my question (curiously unanswered... hmmm....):

God is considerably above us -- moreso than we are above, say, Bambi. Should the Human hunting of Animals, for enjoyment, be outlawed -- even on Private Property?

I loved this movie, but I found the alien angle completely implausible. But the more I think about it, I'm coming around to the idea that there is another level to this movie.
What if the invaders are not aliens, but are demons instead? We don't see any alien technology, just lights in the sky, occult symbols in cornfields, and creatures with hatred for man. If you accept that God exists, then you also have to accept that demons exist as well.
I think that modern man has an aversion to believing that this kind of evil exists, and would rather believe that aliens capable of developing star spanning technology would come millions of light years to our back-water planet for the sole purpose of killing humans.
Replace "aliens" with "demons", and the movie takes on a terrifying new light. Imagine that God gave everyone on earth signs to survive a demonic attack, and the only people that survived were those that listened/believed.

Imagine that God gave everyone on earth signs to survive a demonic attack, and the only people that survived were those that listened/believed.

That would be right out of the Old Testament -- when God killed people for the "sport" of testing them. Nice guy. If you met a guy with God's personality, you'd be trying to get him committed to a psychiatric institution for the criminally insane.

I'm saying that a species which has a greater degree of sentience

And "alien" from another planet would be a different species under either of these criteria, but whether it would "right" to enslave, torture, or kill it would depend upon its apparent acheivement of self-awareness and abstract thinking.

Dragging "property rights" into this discussion is simply foolish. Property rights are merely human rights in regards to the necessary monopolization of physical recources for surivial. We need "property" such as food, in order to survive. We establish joint agreements on mutual property respect in order to minimize property wars. "Property" is necessary for human survival. It has no meaning for an all powerful being who is allegedly NOT dependent upon the material world.

Your lawyerly view of religion is amusing, though.

"Species" is an arbitrary human classification. For extant creatures it merely applies to whether they can interbreed or not. For extinct creatures, it merely means they have significant morphological differences. And "alien" from another planet would be a different species under either of these criteria, but whether it would "right" to enslave, torture, or kill it would depend upon its apparent acheivement of self-awareness and abstract thinking. Dragging "property rights" into this discussion is simply foolish. Property rights are merely human rights in regards to the necessary monopolization of physical recources for surivial. We need "property" such as food, in order to survive. We establish joint agreements on mutual property respect in order to minimize property wars. "Property" is necessary for human survival. It has no meaning for an all powerful being who is allegedly NOT dependent upon the material world. Your lawyerly view of religion is amusing, though.

Now you're just grasping at straws. Sheesh -- this is like shooting fish in a barrel (hmm... is that immoral, do you suppose?).

When you've painted yourself hopelessly into a corner, jlogajan, the honest thing to do is to buck up and admit your defeat.

To wit -- Howzabout you answer the question (still unanswered on the third go-round... hmmm....):

God is considerably above us -- moreso than we are above, say, Bambi. Should the Human hunting of Animals, for enjoyment, be outlawed -- even on Private Property?

Be a good sport, J. When you've lost, you've lost.

Thank you for your post, Orthodoxpresbyterian!

My two cents: most people eventually wonder why they exist, what is the meaning of life - and that's when they are most likely to conclude that God is.

"The most beautiful and deepest experience a man can have is the sense of the mysterious. It is the underlying principle of religion as well as all serious endeavour in art and science. He who never had this experience seems to me, if not dead, then at least blind. To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is a something that our mind cannot grasp and whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly and as a feeble reflection, this is religiousness. In this sense I am religious. To me it suffices to wonder at these secrets and to attempt humbly to grasp with my mind a mere image of the lofty structure of all that there is." Einstein's speech 'My Credo' to the German League of Human Rights, Berlin, autumn 1932, Einstein: A Life in Science, Michael White and John Gribbin, page 262

In Einstein's book Relativity he speaks admiringly of Descartes with regard to his conclusions concerning space and time.

Descartes reasoned in Meditations on First Philosophy what the Bible already stated in Exd 3:14, that God is.

"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." Exd 3:14

Descartes also reasoned I think therefore I am. His conclusion, as I understand it, is that there are only two things which can be known absolutely, one that you exist because you think and the other, that God is. Everything else could be an illusion. It is my prayer and hope that anyone who has not yet meditated on the meaning of life and why they exist - will do so.

I agree,I thought the "aliens"were devils or demons and all "sin".Thats why the last one disappeared when the water washed over him.No?

Signs was just one sign after another and is defintely worth a second viewing.

You speak of believing and you are right but one message in the movie occured before they went down the basement.The last thing the TV or radio was saying was "and all over the world people are praying".The next morning the demons were leaving for some "mysterious" reason.It was a great message movie for those witheyes to see and ears to hear.BTW,the priest who reviews movies for the diocese and has them printed in the diocesan newspaper found the movie boring.He missed the entire meaning of the movie.I am not surprised,I have heard him talk.

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