Florence, Sour Biscuit Fires Merge in SW Oregon

Sounds like those Klamath/Wood/Williamson Bows are hungry. I'm surprised that so many big ones are still in the lake and not upriver in the Wood or Williamson.

The Rogue is a little narrow just upstream from the Illinois River in the Agness area. It would be very easy to jump if the winds come out of the East, SE or South.

What is saving them is the wind has been consistantly from the North and NW.

This is starting to get confusing. This report says that the two fires have not merged. Yet other reports say that the fires have merged.

So who is Bravo Sierraing us?

Thanks for your on the spot updates!

Even if they havn't merged - I heard they did, they are treating the eastern flank as one. A single fire line.

Several trout summer in the springs on the west side of the lake. Man do they pay for it though. Pretty beat up with parasites/lampreys etc.. Was disapointed, I actually saw another boat within 500 yards of my fishing area.

Was counting on the smoke to keep the sun off the water, as it did two weeks ago. I had a banner day, best one yet on the lake than. Today's smoke was only on the horizon & the sun hit the water about 0730 - fishing was over. Got in two and a half decent hours. Nothing to write home about.

Good morning, Gentlemen. I'm freep mailing you a document that I would appreciate you looking at. It is the 2001 update of the 1995 rules and instructions for fire fighting and an activist friend is convinced this instructs fire fighters to NOT put these fires out, especially "naturally occuring" fires. Interestingly, the group "contracted" with the government to impose these rules is The National Academy of Public Administration which has some interesting members and "fellows". I'm wondering if this isn't a covert enviro group. Their list of clients is worthy of note:

Center for the Economy and the Environment Clients

A list of agencies and other organizations that have sponsored studies by the Academy's Center for the Economy and the Environment or have been the subject of CEE work.

Department of Agriculture, Department of Energy, Economic Development Administration, Environmental Protection Agency, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Occupational Safety and Health Administration, Congress, Appalachian Regional Commission, Mississippi Department of Environmental Quality, Annie E. Casey Foundation, Joyce Foundation, Aspen Institute, National Academy of Sciences, Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, Pew Charitable Trusts,

Here is their statement, from their home page on the Forest fire study. I had not heard of this outfit, but they may be old news to you.

The National Academy of Public Administration is the preeminent organization dedicated to improving the performance of governance systems-the network of public institutions, nonprofit organizations, and private companies that now share in the implementation of public policy. As an independent, nonprofit organization chartered by Congress, the Academy responds to specific requests from public agencies and non-government organizations. The Academy also promotes discourse on emerging trends in governance through its Standing Panels and with external funding. ACADEMY NEWS

Academy Panel Recommends Ways to Enhance Wildland Fire Management

December 2001--An Academy Panel has recommended an organizational structure and other management tools for enhancing the federal land management agencies' capacity for managing wildland fire. Strong leadership and coordination already exist for operational firefighting activities, but the Panel found that ecosystem health, fire hazard reduction, and community safety goals contained in the agencies' fire management policy must be addressed immediately in a more consistent and accountable manner by all of such agencies. Otherwise, the threat of unnaturally severe wildfires will continue to grow, putting both communities and ecosystems at increasing risk.

The study, Managing Wildland Fire: Enhancing Capacity to Implement the Federal Interagency Policy, offers recommendations that are consistent with the President's Management Agenda, which directs federal agencies to face the urgent management challenges confronting them.

http://www.napawash.org/about_academy/annual_report.html.

All their documents, contributors are PDF...which I can't do!!

I am confined with things I must do, but will try to study it when I get a chance.

Latest AP story on the fire:

Nation's largest active wildfire threatens outback communiites

By JEFF BARNARD
The Associated Press
8/8/02 2:57 PM

GRANTS PASS, Ore. (AP) -- The Florence and Sour Biscuit fires merged Thursday, giving firefighters a stronger defense for the Illinois Valley against the biggest active wildfire in the nation while testing lines protecting outback communities on other flanks.

The Florence Fire stood at 296,000 acres of the Siskiyou National Forest and adjoining lands in southwestern Oregon and northern California.

U.S. Forest Service Chief Dale Bosworth and other Bush administration officials planned to fly over the fire and visit a fire camp in Selma for a briefing and to visit with firefighters.

Because of its size, extreme volatility, and threat to people, the Florence Fire has been the top priority in the nation for scarce firefighting resources for the past week. The fire is only 15 percent contained and has 5,168 people fighting it.

Fire commanders hope to keep the fire away from the Rogue River Canyon community of Agness on its north flank, but the blaze still has the potential to break out to the west toward the coastal town of Brookings.

Wind gusts of 40 mph out of the northeast were predicted to test fire lines. The threat to the 17,000 people of the Illinois Valley on the east flank continued to ease.

"It kind of looks like a war zone up here," said Serene Ireland, owner of the Agness RV Park near the confluence of the Rogue and Illinois Rivers about 25 miles east of Gold Beach. "We've got military trucks, Red Cross vans, all kinds of earth mover equipment, big fire trucks. It's not quiet little Agness right now."

Vern Smithson and his wife had just finished unpacking after retiring from the Burlington Northern Railroad in Everett, Wash., to their dream home on the outskirts of Agness, when they had to pack up again to be ready to flee if the fire gets closer.

"I'm not really too nervous," he said. "We've had plenty of time to start moving stuff out. I'm concerned, of course. I've got a lot money invested in this place. I don't want the trees burned down around here."

Smithson said firefighters had cleared brush and layed out hoses around homes against the possibility the fire could jump containment lines standing against the fire two to three miles away.

The fires were brought together west of O'Brien by burnout operations that have consolidated and strengthened containment lines, particularly on the eastern flank where the Florence Fire has threatened the communities around Cave Junction, said fire spokesman Mike Ferris.

"That is a good thing," Ferris said. "That means we have a pretty solid containment line from north of Selma to the California border."

Weather forecasts called for a warming and drying trend to continue into the weekend, with winds out of the northeast, gusting on the southern end of the fire up to 40 mph. That was good news for the Illinois Valley, but bad news for the Wilderness Retreat subdivision on the Chetco River, where the fire was burning just 5 miles to the west.

About 70 Agness residents met Wednesday night with Incident Commander Kim Martin, who told them containment lines have about a 50 percent chance of keeping the fire from their homes.

"A fair amount of that line is in, and now it's a matter of getting it wider," said spokesman Mark Wurdeman.

Some residents expressed frustration that more firefighters were not sent earlier, but Martin said resources have been stretched around the nation, and now that the blaze is the country's top priority, help is flowing in, Wurdeman said.

After eight years of the lying Clintoons and the mediots spinning stuff, I have developed some fair parsing skills.

This is "Parsed from this story, and it does not sound good for Brookings and the Chetco Valley people:

"Fire commanders hope to keep the fire away from the Rogue River Canyon community of Agness on its north flank, but the blaze still has the potential to break out to the west toward the coastal town of Brookings."

"Weather forecasts called for a warming and drying trend to continue into the weekend, with winds out of the northeast, gusting on the southern end of the fire up to 40 mph. That was good news for the Illinois Valley, but bad news for the Wilderness Retreat subdivision on the Chetco River, where the fire was burning just 5 miles to the west."

If this big mother of a fire decides to go nuclear and head to the SW and West, it might not stop until it hits the ocean. The people along the Chetco River, in Brookings/Harbor need to keep a sharp eye on this current situation.

Granof8, you stay alert and safe for us!

I'm out of here for awhile.

Take care and please post any real news.

The Florence and Biscuit merged yesterday when I posted the report from KURY. The FS info was from 8:30 last night, should be something out for today before long.

Other than the Illinois which runs into the Rogue, I have heard nothing of the Florence fire in the Rogue drainage - yet.

First at risk are Curry County's Oak Flat community on the Illinois and the portion of the Agness community on the south and east side of the Rogue. Also the Wilderness Retreat area up the Chetco.

There are any number of places the fire could jump the Rogue. In the introduction to "Illahe The Story of Settlement in the Rogue River Canyon," author Kay Atwood writes "Illahe explores the isolated world of the Rogue River which runs through narrow canyons and crashes over rapids between Grave Creek and the mouth of the Illinois River in Southwestern Oregon. The major portion of this forty mile stretch of the Rogue River and surrounding country is accessible only by trail, water, and a few unimproved roads. The canyon remains an uninhabited, wild place." Opportunities for the fire downstream from Agness too.

August 8 morning FS reports from the east and west sides of the Florence fire.

WEST FLORENCE FIRE
Thursday August 08, 2002 0800 hours
Fire Information: 541-247-2486 or 541-247-2590 or 541-247-2620
The Florence Fire and the Sour Biscuit Fire have burned together to form one fire encompassing 296,000 acres. The fire perimeter is approximately three air miles southeast of Oak Flat (Curry County) on the Rogue River and five air miles east of the Wilderness Retreat area in the Chetco drainage northeast of Brookings.
Today’s resources: 20 Type I crews, 56 Type II crews, 16 helicopters, 113 engines, 864 Overhead, 56 Dozers, and 38 Watertenders. In addition, 130 fire support personnel from Canada are assisting with the fire and 116 Oregon National Guard personnel are staffing road closure points and will provide security support should evacuations become necessary.
WEST FLORENCE FIRE (The following report is for the western half of the Florence Fire.)
At Risk: Private residences in Oak Flat (Curry Co.), Agness, Illahe on the Rogue, and Wilderness Retreat on the Chetco River.
Boat Traffic: Currently there are no restrictions on tour boat, fishing or rafting traffic on the Rogue River. The Quosantana Boat Ramp is closed. Lobster Creek and Foster Bar Boat Ramps are open.
Closures: The entire Siskiyou National Forest is under a fire closure. All open campfires are prohibited. Most Forest Service roads and trails south of the Agness Road (#33) are closed to public access and the Upper Rogue River Trail is closed. Bear Camp Road (#23) road closure is now in effect; travel is limited to emergency fire traffic only.
Fire Weather Status: RED FLAG WARNING THROUGH FRIDAY
Sunny, windy and dry today. Smoke will be drifting toward the coast today. The fire is expected to spread to the south/southwest. Highs 86-90 valleys, 76-80 ridges. Winds from 12-16 gusting to 27mph in the valleys with 17-25mph winds gusting to 40 on the ridges. These weather conditions are associated with increased fire activity.
Agness and Oak Flat
The fire continues to be active in and around the Fish Hook Peak area. The fire continues to back down- slope to the west side. Handcrews and dozers continue construction of a fire line on the ridge east of Oak Flat. Handcrews continue to make progress on the line inaccessible by dozers. The fireline will run north from Indian Flat and tie in with the existing road system in preparation for a potential burnout operation. Structures will continue to be prepped in the Agness area today. The Curry County Sheriff has issued a pre-evacuation notice for Agness, Illahe, and Oak Flat (Curry County) residents to be prepared to evacuate.
Brookings, Gardner Ridge, and Carpenterville
Crews and dozers continue to build a fire line in the area east of Wilderness Retreat near the South Fork confluence of the Chetco River. Progress is slow due to extremely difficult terrain. Structure preparation continues in the Wilderness Retreat area.
Today’s Objective:
To continue protection of private land, residences and adjacent communities along the Illinois River, Agness, and Chetco Rivers, and Brookings.
Establish line to keep the fire east of the ridge running from Lawson Creek to Sugarloaf Mtn, Snow Camp Mtn, Quail Prairie Mtn, Pollywog Butte, Snaketooth Butte then tie to Sourdough.
Great Basin National Incident Management Team
Kim Martin, Incident Commander

Fire Information Update
Florence Fire
Thursday, August 8, 2002 11:00 am
Fire Information Center: (541) 592-1029
Overview
Florence Fire (all zones) 296,133 acres 5,168 personnel
What’s New: Overnight, crews on the north flank of the Florence Fire burned out fire lines between Indian Flat and Fish Hook Peak, and no problems were reported. Burnout operations on the north end will continue over the next few days, weather permitting, in a clockwise direction beginning on Forest Road # 2308.
Burnout operations also went well west of the community of O’Brien, which is approximately three miles from the fire line around the east flank of the fire. A spotfire was found across the fire line in this area, but crews were able to redirect the fire line and contain the spotfire.
Two minor injuries occurred on Wednesday. One firefighter injured a knee, and another sustained a lower back injury. Overall, the safety record on the Florence Fire is very good. However, many hazards exist - snags, black bears, rattlesnakes, rolling material, poison oak, narrow roads and extreme fire behavior.
A red flag warning continues today for strong northeast-north winds along ridgetops. Poor relatively humidity and higher temperatures will help fires to burn hotter and faster.
Yesterday, the Florence and Sour Biscuit fires were merged as a common fire line and burnout operation now contain both fires on the east side. The entire area is now called the Florence Fire. It has a 202-mile perimeter, and has three administrative zones in Oregon and one in California.
Pacific Northwest National Incident Management Team 2
Mike Lohrey, Incident Commander

Re the critters in that area.

There are probably more mountain lions in that area than any other area in Oregon or the West Coast. I went 50 some years with never seeing a cougar. Then 10 years ago in the upper Chetco I saw my first one and several sightings afterwards around the areas of where the fire is now burning.

Or I would go upstream on a trail or a river and coming back see cougar tracks over my hiking or wading boot tracks. Those that went the same direction as I was headed had a lot of impact on me. So I stopped fishing until about dark or to sunset in those areas. I made sure that I headed back out, way before it got dark even the best fishing happened right before and after sunset.

Some of the bears on the north end from Graves Creek to Paradise Lodge are very territorial. Most of the time you just see the real end of the bears as they try to get away from you. Those bears during black berry season which is now, would just look at you and go on eating black berries.

4 deer seasons ago, two young hunters up north in the Elk River area shot a deer. They went back to their truck to get gear to butcher it and carry it out. A bear attacked and mauled them as they came back to the area where their deer was. I talked to one of their fathers a few months after the attack, and he was still shook up. This was just a plain old Oregon brown/black bear. He had been seen near the area in the black berry bushes, and he too did not leave when fishers or loggers came up to his area. He decided to claim the dead deer as his prize.

Here is a photo taken by Freeperette Wanderin: The burn out still going on at Selma along the I99 approx 9p.m. 8/7/02...

Here are two more photos by Wanderin:

Taken 8/7/02 from the Lake Selmac Command post at approx noon, firefighters tents with the fire in the back ground...

The same scene at 7 at the Command Post at 8/7/02 at 7 p.m...

THANKS WANDERIN!

Only on Free Republic do we get the news from the regular sources, we get pictures and reality comments/observations from our Freepers near the scene or close to it.

Time to post your enviral stickers and how to get them.

How many have been ordered from you?

Some of you may remember the posts by Aunt B and yours truly about the interview/discussion with Lars Larson and the owner of the helicopter service, hired to supposedly battle the forest fires in Oregon.

Here is more of this from Sierra Times in an oped by J.J. Johnson

Oregon: Time to Fight Fire With Fire
By J.J. Johnson, Published 08. 4. 02 at 20:26 Sierra Time

We have received numerous postings from readers of the transcripted interview with an Helicopter Wildfire Fighter on the Lars Larson Show back on August 1.

There have also been requests that The Sierra Times review and expand on a previous challenge we made to all local communities concerning firefighting out west. With the recent legislative action by Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, Sierra Times believes that pointing fingers and calling congressmen is unproductive. More direct measures should be taken to fire the Timber Rock and other fires in the West.

In the interview, it was reported that the Carson Helicopter has a contract with the United States Forestry Service (USFS) to carry water via 9 aircraft flying on the Toolbox fire, Timbered Rock, and the Southbisquit Fire.

With the cooperation of the Oregon State Department of Forestry, a dry pond was found within striking distance of the fires, and water was being supply by an armada of water trucks. ".

We were just on the other side of the US Forest Service line and we were within their boundaries", said Mark Lindamood of Carson Helicopter. "So they came up [August 1] and shut the pond down and they gated it and prohibited trucks from coming in", he said. The apparent reason was lack of a permission request and the fact that what is called a "Dip Site Manager" was not on site.

This and other bureaucratic regulations and red tape from the USFS have damaged the ability to fight the fires effectively, threatening property, communities and even lives. As a result, Oregonians are being asked to contact their congressmen and complaint. Instead, we submit the following actions take place:

1) The Carson Helicopter company should immediately suspend any and all service for the United States Forestry Service. They should make it known their services will be available to any state or local agency dedicated to fire fighting.

2) All counties affected by the fires should declare a state of emergency, if they have not done so already. The emergency should include the power of the local authorities to use all means at its disposal to protect life and property in the area, and for the county's district attorneys to enforce such measures.

3) Oregon State Police, the State Department of Forestry and the Local county officers should immediately remove the fence installed by the USFS and provide protection for water trucks to the pond.

4) Helicopter transportation of water should resume, but under the jurisdiction of the Oregon State Department of Forestry. Any attempts to prevent the lawful duty of country officials should result in those people being taken into custody. Suspects can be held for at least 48 hours - while firefighting continues.

5) In the event of USFS not allowing flights, pilots should adhere to the FAA pilot regulations and file an injunction against the USFS to complain that their policies are placing lives in danger. County District Attorneys should be compelled to file injunctions against any attempt to prevent fighting wildfires by any other entity during a fire emergency. This would at least slow down the USFS long enough to let you get a hand on the fire.

6) Media should work covertly in order to review the work of federal fire-fighters. Sierra Times readers should volunteer their help, and water to the firefighters if and when needed in order to gain access and to ensure adequate fire fighting is in effect.

It seems the problem lies in the public 'giving' authority to federal folks to put out the forest fires under a myth this is actually the priority of the Forestry Service. Their goal is to maintain the bureaucracy.

In both Arizona and Colorado it has been shown that local authorities taking matters into their own hands is the best solution to fighting wildfires. County and state governments must take this matter seriously. When lives and property are at stake, there is not only a duty, but a responsibility to take action - against federal authority if necessary.

Nor should anti-logging or the Endangered Species Act (ESA) prohibit local residents, county governments, or state governments from taken action when needed. The South Dakota exemption proves that these types of regulations are hazardous to forests, wildlife and property. Quoting a letter from the Sierra Club and the Wilderness society on the matter of the Daschle amendment, ".The amendment would help to reduce hazardous fuel loads in a manner that protects communities and the benefits of recreation, clean water and fish and wildlife habitat on the Black Hills National Forest.". Needless to say this would work for other areas as well. So why wait for federal permission?

There will be some that will call these proposals extreme and even illegal. We are dealing with dangerous situations that demand immediate attention. Simply calling on Congressmen to take action requires a host of calls just to get attention (they're on summer break as well). The actions listed above are immediate and would put immediate attention on the situation. We are at a point where we believe federal forest agents do not want to push the envelope with local authorities. In this fire season alone, they have already been roundly criticized by governors and congressmen, there are two USFS employees currently in custody for being responsible for much of the burn acreage this year. Most important, we feel that no federal agency wants a standoff with others for wanting to fight a forest fire - not in this political season.

In closing, we would like to thank Lars Larson of KXL News Radio 750 AM in Portland and Carson Helicopter for bringing light to a grave situation. But the solution requires action be taken on the ground immediately. Simply complaining will not work. The western fires have reached a point where areas not ablaze are suffering from the impact of this fire season with increased ash and smoke in the atmosphere, and loss of revenue.

We cannot make this statement more clear: We are well beyond the time where we can depend on the federal government to battle the disasters out west. There are people, homes, and communities in peril. The time for action is now. If we allow federal regulations to prevent firefighting causing destruction of live and property, we will only have ourselves, and not the federal government to blame.

____________________________________________________________
I will be posting more from Aunt B re official US Floristry Circus anti fire fighing policies made into law during the last administration.

The more you peel back the ugly layers of the bs coming from the Floristry Circus, the more it becomes apparent that they love these large out of control fires as part of their ecological. Then they have written policies to insure the so called natural events of fires.

OK, here it is.

Click on Picure to order your sticker!!! Let them know that we know and that we aint gonna let them get away with it!!!

G'Pa..I've got orders for 100 even and paid orders for 72. I'm gonna take a few of the leftovers and send them off to various politicians and media types.

EBUCK

Will the new fire be called the Flour Biscuit Fire?

Knowing how the Floristry Circus Clowns have liked to use names that have nothing to do with the fact that the Kalmiopsis Wildernesses is close to burning up.

They will probably call it the N. Dallas Florence Nightingdale Biscuit Fire and blame it on Ronald Reagan and GW. Or for short, "When Did GW know about this fire?".

Here is another update from Oregon Live/The Oregonian on the Kalmiopsis Wilderness is burnt up fire.

Some of the danger levels to Agness are lower.

However, what they have been keeping from the rest of the world and you have been hearing about it here:

Brookings could be in peril as this fire may decide to move West.

Winds shift to west and slow Florence wildfire's steady march toward Agness

08/08/02, WENDY OWEN, JEFF MANNING and R. GREGORY NOKES

AGNESS: Vernon and Marilyn Smithson sat Wednesday in the living room of their retirement dream home, completed less than a year ago, and watched helicopters ferry buckets of water toward smoke about three miles to the south.

Flames from the huge Florence wildfire crept down the heavily forested ridge visible through the picture windows of their home in the Oak Flat subdivision south of Agness, a resort town of 150. Residents are on 24-hour evacuation notice.

"I'm not panicking," said Smithson, voicing confidence that firefighters could save their new home. But just in case, they'd rented a moving truck and hauled antiques and other valuables to a storage unit in Gold Beach.

The Smithsons and their neighbors in the 23-home subdivision received better news in the afternoon when dangerous eastern winds predicted for the area shifted to the west, blowing the fire back on itself and slowing its creep toward town.

Farther south, however, the Chetco River drainage east of Brookings emerged as a major concern. Wednesday afternoon helicopter crews spotted fires within two to three miles of Wilderness Retreat, a small community of about 20 homes east of Brookings. The fire had begun the day five miles from the town.

Fire officials issued a red flag alert for low humidity, temperatures in the 70s and winds gusting to 22 mph, conditions ideal for fueling an intense, fast-moving fire. The conditions are expected to last at least through Friday.

Fire lookouts in the mountains east of Gold Beach and Brookings reported east winds were blowing in the morning hours, said Mark Wurdeman, a fire spokesman.

Reflecting concern about the potential threat to the Brookings area, much of the leadership of the West Florence firefighting team, including Kim Martin, the incident commander, plan to move from Gold Beach to Brookings in the next two days.

A new team of Oregon and California firefighters will take over leadership of the Florence fire's northwest front.

The change was made in part because of the difficulty crews are encountering establishing the fire line in the southwest quadrant of the fire. While crews used existing Forest Service roads as the foundation for fire lines in the northwest, such roads are uncommon in the southwest. "It's just tough country," said Dick Fleishman, fire information officer. "Those slopes go on forever."

Brookings' approximately 5,400 residents have been waking up for several days to skies darkened by smoke and ash.

"It's been bad, and it's getting worse," said Randy Ullom, a Curry County sheriff's deputy. "I've had a lot of concerned phone calls, people wondering what to do about their pets and things like that in case of evacuation. All in all, they've been calm and collected."

The massive Florence fire, now in its fourth week, had burned over 243,836 acres by Wednesday afternoon, an area more than twice the size of the city of Portland.

In the Agness area, about 400 firefighters and 26 bulldozers continued to dig a fire line on a ridge east of Oak Flat.

The fire had moved within a mile of Lawson Creek, a trigger point for evacuating the Agness area.

If it continued north, the fire likely would reach Oak Flat first. The Smithson home overlooks the Illinois River across from Agness, which is at the confluence of the Illinois and Rogue rivers.

On the Illinois Valley side, crews ignited burnouts aimed at joining the fire lines on the east side of the Florence fire and the lines around the 41,897-acre Sour Biscuit blaze straddling the Oregon-California border.

Fire spokesman Tom Valluzzi said the resurgence of gusty winds later Wednesday forced crews to curtail the burnouts, but said the fires soon would burn together anyway, which would help crews.

"It makes it somewhat easier to fight the fire as one fire," Valluzzi said. "Logistic-wise, you think of it as one fire instead of spreading your forces out. You also don't have to worry about trapping people between the two fires."

Valluzzi said the fire lines protecting the Illinois Valley to the east had held. He said high winds expected from the northwest Tuesday night did not develop, so the fire lines hadn't yet been seriously tested.

But he said the burnout has consumed fuel along a 50 mile stretch inside the fire lines would make it difficult for the fire to cross.

So are Brookings and Gold Beach new places for the less than 100 people who care about this fire to be concerned about.

Are the people in the Illinois River Valley safe for now?

Thanks, again, madfly. It's much appreciated.

KURY radio announced about 2 p.m. that a pre-evacuation notice had gone out from the Sheriff's office to the Wilderness Retreat area residents. No evacuation yet.