Oregon fire covers 460 square miles, nears power lines

Seattle Post Intelligencer ^ | August 12, 2002 | ASSOCIATED PRESS

[Robert357]

Oregon's largest wildfire in more than a century threatened power lines feeding several Northern California towns yesterday as crews tried to stop a slow creep along its southeastern flank.

Hand crews had created three or four fire lines in front of the advancing flames west of O'Brien, but said they would have to ask Pacific Power to shut down the power lines if the wildfire got too close.

When carbon-rich smoke thickens around the cables, it can cause the electricity from the lines to arc, endangering firefighters. Turning off the power would put the California towns of Gasquet, Hiouchi and Crescent City in the dark, said Leah Rosin, an Oregon Department of Forestry spokeswoman.

---snip---

"It's going to be days (before it's stopped) and it keeps chunking along," Rosin said of the fire. "It's not rushing anywhere, it's just creeping along."

----snip----

Full containment for the portion of the fire south of the California border is expected by Thursday, Rosin said. The rest of the fire is only about 25 percent contained.

Meanwhile, humid conditions and a wind from the northeast overnight helped firefighters working on the fire's northern flank, near the tiny community of Agness, said Nigel Baker, a Forest Service spokesman. Crews set burnout fires -- used to rob the main blaze of its fuel -- until midnight, taking advantage of the favorable winds, he said.

On the fire's eastern side, weather conditions were less favorable, with hot, dry weather predicted.

[Robert357]

You might want to check on how close the fire gets to the power lines as time progresses.

Also note that the California ISO has issued a Maintenance Dont' touch alert for today.

Could be an interesting day in California, depending on what the happens or has happened in Southern Oregon.

Good Luck!

[Robert357]

You might want to keep an eye on today's fire conditions and the power situation.

[Dog Gone]

I didn't realize that the smoke from a fire can cause the lines to arc. I think I've read where the heat causes the wires to be less efficient and can effectively shut down the transmission line.

Thanks for the ping. It's something to watch.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

I'll put this on the list for readers of -

Calpowercrisis:

To find all articles tagged or indexed using Calpowercrisis, click below:
	click here >>>	Calpowercrisis	<<< click here
(To view all FR Bump Lists, click here)

[Grampa Dave]

Thanks for posting this.

Here is today's link to this fire which is the largest fire in the past century in Oregon: (Oregon is still burning)

[Grampa Dave]

Would you please explain to the Freepers following this, how the heavy smoke can cause the danger that is referred to in this thread.

Thanks, a lot of people are not aware of this potential problem in a heavy smoke fire situation.

[Robert357]

When carbon-rich smoke thickens around the cables, it can cause the electricity from the lines to arc, endangering firefighters.

In your home, when you use a power cord, it is wire surrounded by plastic "insulation." The insulation is there to keep the two voltages separate (i.e. 120 Volts and ground or zero volts). Actually on a typical home power cord, you have a current wire at voltage, a neutral wire at zero volts, and an equipmen ground wire, but that is more than most people want to know.

For a large three-phase transmission line one normally has three conductors (one for each phase connected "delta." --some transmission lines also have a small 4th wire or static wire for lightning protection on the very top---Distribution lines in your neighborhood are usually 3 phase wires and a neutral connected "wye." but again, more that most people want to know). These three conductors on the transmission line are separated by air.

Under most conditions air is a pretty good insulating material. It is inexpensive. However, there are a couple of problems with smoke. As the article points out smoke is mostly small carbon particles, carbon is a conductor. Carbon arc lights pass electricity through carbon as do carbon brushes on motors. The carbon in the air means that the good insulating material becomes a so-so insulating material. Unfortunately there are two problems with smoke.

The first is that the folks who designed the transmission line separated the phase conductors an appropriate distance for air insullation and not for a mixture of air and carbon. That means that an arch can flash from one phase to another.

The second problem with smoke is that the insullators at transmission towers or pole structures can be dusted with carbon powder (soot) from the smoke. When this happens you will get a phase to ground flashover at the tower.

Once an arc occurs, then the air gets ionizde (ozone). The ionized air is a much worse conductor than normal air. When that happens an arch can go just about anywhere as well.

[Grampa Dave]

Thanks for this explanation.

On this last sentence, did you mean to say this "The ionized air is a much worse conductor, or that the ionized air is a much better and predictable conductor?

My coffee level is not up to what it should be.

[Robert357]

My coffee level is not up to what it should be.

Obviously, neither was my coffee, caffine level up to where it should have been.

Ionized are is a better conductor or poorer insulator than regular air.

One of the interesting things in high voltage power equipment is what are called "air break" switches. These are switches that just open in air (sort of an old fashioned knife switch), but have what are called horns (large rods that extend up form one end). The purpose of the horn is to "draw the arc" as the switch is opened and allow the arch to be positioned in a way that helps extinquish the arc. The problem is that without the horns, the arc, once it is established will keep flashing across the open switch until it burns up or melts. Very messy.

[SierraWasp]

Here's where it all comes together... Enviro/roadless fires, plus fire produced power outages for CA, political damage for Dimbulb Davis around 90 days before the election... BINGO!!! SIMON LANDSLIDE!!!

Well? I can dream, can't I?

[Grampa Dave]

We had about a 40 minute black out here in one of the 50 zones where we aren't supposed to have blackouts.

I have no idea what caused it.

What was funny, I was trying to post a reply to Ernest and Robert and copy you re what you posted.

[SierraWasp]

"black out here in one of the 50 zones where we aren't supposed to have blackouts."

Not to get too technical, but you and I are in zones that aren't supposed to have the "ROTATING" blackouts because we have a hospital, fire or police station, etc. in our zone. Remember?

We can still have a blackout that they can't control and of course if the whole grid goes down is "lights out" for the Facisto Governor... end of story!!! I could live with that, couldn't you?

[Robert357]

Doesn't look like a big outage today. We will see what the future brings.

[Grampa Dave]

I know that we are in both supposedly no black out zones and that stuff can still happen. So something happened for close to an hour.

I would would put up with 100 degree heat for days if it meant the end of Davis.

It would be better if it happened in late September or October during our long and hot Indian Summer.

The half life memories of the average Kali ain't very long. If it happens now, most would blame it on Ronald Reagan or the first President Bush. Or they wouldn't remember it. Very few can remember the blackouts last May and in Jan/Feb..

[Robert357]

Well, according to Rough & Tumble, it looks like the LA Times has thought it worthy to pick up this article a day late! I wonder how much of the LA Times articles are really sourced at FreeRepublic. Maybe Free Republic should file a lawsuit against the LA Times.......Nah, freedom of speech!