Freepers - Need help (Tort Reform)

me | 8-21-02 | Dan from MI

[Dan from Michigan]

I need some here. I'm looking for links on tort reform. Speficic newsstories, policy analysis stories(Cato, Mackinac, etc), and news stories with specific facts presented are what is preferred.

This is for a political project, and could be used in campaigns, so you can be making a difference here.

Thanks a lot.

[Stultis]

Tort reform? Well, I've toyed with the idea of licenses, seasons, and maybe even tags, but in the end I think a straight bounty would be best. Say $800 a head for tort lawyers in general, and $1200 if they are shot while prosecuting medical or environmental lawsuits.

[rwfromkansas]

What is a tort lawyer. I have heard this before but have never learned what they do.

[Dan from Michigan]

Civil lawyers I think.

You know those personal injury commercial out there. In Michigan, there are a ton of "Sam Bernstein, Lee Steinberg, Abood Law Firm, Greywall and Associates", and similar ads out there, mostly personal injury, medical, and the like. Those are tort lawyers.

[Dan from Michigan]

LAWSUIT ABUSE is another common term for this.

[Bella_Bru]

ping ping

[End The Hypocrisy]

I'm a big time conservative but I'm also scared of hospitals because of facts I've found such as the following:


http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/07/20/deadly.infections.ap/index.html

Report: Thousands die needlessly from hospital infections
July 22, 2002 Posted: 1:30 PM EDT (1730 GMT)


Meanwhile, a few months ago even the AMA admitted that over 100,000 Americans died last year due to medical malpractice.

If you're going to get tort reform passed, it's important to have compelling counters prepared regarding points like the following. Please feel free to post your objections here so I can learn if I'm missing part of the picture or not:


http://www.atla.org/medmal/notcause.pdf


Lawsuits are NOT the Cause of Rising Medical Malpractice Insurance Rates. Insurance companies that sell medical malpractice coverage to doctors are hiking their prices again. They say it's due to out-of-control lawsuits -
and that rising medical malpractice costs are forcing doctors to stop practicing medicine. But multiple studies and reports prove that's just not true. Here's proof that lawyers are not the reason insurance companies are
hiking medical malpractice rates:

Medical Malpractice Insurers are Making a Profit. And that Profit is Almost Double that of the Property/Casualty Insurance Industry Average. In 1999, the most recent year for which data is available, malpractice lines garnered
14.2% profit, while property/casualty lines made 8.2%. National Association of Insurance Commissioners, Profitability By Line By State in 1999 (Published 2001).

There are Far Fewer Lawsuits Than There Could Be. A study done by the Harvard Medical Practice Study Group determined that for every 8 instances of medical malpractice, only 1 claim was actually filed.

Harvard Medical Practice Study Group, Patients, Doctors, and Lawyers:
Medical Injury, Malpractice Litigation, and Patient Compensation in New York (Harvard University, 1990). And these lawsuits are the most difficult to
win: the Bureau of Justice Statistics reports in a study published August 2000 that only 26% of malpractice cases tried result in an award for the plaintiff. That's the lowest "win" rate of any tort or personal injury
claim, and that "win" rate has fallen since the Bureau of Justice Statistics last issued a study on the subject in 1996. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Tort Trials and Verdicts in Large Counties, 1996
(Published Aug. 2000.)

Doctors Don't Leave States Because of Medical Malpractice Insurance Rates. Recent investigations prove doctors don't leave for this reason - even in states like Pennsylvania and West Virginia, where insurance lobbyists told
legislatures and doctors that physicians were leaving those states because of liability and insurance problems, they were not. Josh Goldstein, "Recent Census of Doctors Show No Flight from Pennsylvania," Philadelphia Inquirer,
Oct. 2, 2001; Martha Leonard, "State Has Seen Sharp Increase in Number of Doctors," Sunday Gazette-Mail, Feb. 25, 2001.

There are Sensible Ways to Reduce the Number of Medical Malpractice Claims. A study published in the December 1999 issue of the Annals of Internal Medicine found that when a Veteran's Administration hospital promptly and
fully disclosed all errors to patients - and then offered fair compensation to them - litigation costs went down. Risk Management: Extreme Honesty May Be the Best Policy (Annals of Internal Medicine Vol.131, Number 12, Dec. 21,
1999).

The Problem With Medical Malpractice Insurance is Medical Malpractice. According to the Institute of Medicine's report To Err is Human, up to 98,000 patients die in hospitals per year - victims of preventable medical
errors. That's 268 per day. The best way to reduce the number of medical malpractice claims made in this country is to fix the cause of those claims,
not to eliminate people's rights. Institute of Medicine, To Err is Human: Building a Safer Health System (National Academy Press, 1999).

Relatively few doctors are responsible for a disproportionately large number of lawsuits. According to an investigation by the West Virginia Sunday
Gazette-Mail, just forty doctors account for more than one-fourth of the nearly 2,300 cases of medical malpractice claims reported to the West Virginia Board of Medicine since 1993. Lawrence Messina, "Malpractice Claims
Have Decreased: Study's Findings Run Counter to Medical Association Allegations," Sunday Gazette Mail, Feb. 25, 2001.


Well, where's the truth and where's the lying in this debate? I don't have all the answers but I sure am afraid of hospitals right now...and I'd be even moreso if reform goes too far. You wouldn't be?

[End The Hypocrisy]

Here's what that CNN article USED to say before they erased it:


Report: Thousands die needlessly from hospital infections
July 22, 2002 Posted: 1:30 PM EDT (1730 GMT)

CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- About 103,000 deaths were linked to hospital infections in 2000 -- a figure 14 percent higher than government estimates -- and nearly 75 percent of the deaths were preventable, the Chicago Tribune reported.

The national Centers for Disease Control and Prevention last year calculated 90,000 deaths in 2000 were linked to hospital infections, the fourth leading cause of death in the United States behind heart disease, cancer and strokes.

Many of the deaths were caused by unsanitary facilities, germ-laden instruments and unwashed hands, the newspaper said in early Sunday editions distributed Saturday.

According to the report, infection rates are soaring nationally, exacerbated by hospital cutbacks and carelessness by doctors and nurses, and serious violations of infection-control standards have been found in the majority of hospitals.

Since 1995, more than 75 percent of all hospitals have been cited for serious cleanliness and sanitation violations.

Hospitals are not required to disclose infection rates, and most do not. Doctors are not required to tell patients about risk or exposure to hospital germs.

To document the rising rate of infection-related deaths, the newspaper analyzed records from 75 federal and state agencies, as well as internal hospital files, patient databases and court cases around the country.

CDC officials said they believe most hospital infections are preventable, but the agency has not arrived at a precise number.

The American Hospital Association said the last decade of unprecedented cost-cutting and financial instability has impacted all areas of hospital care.


Eunice Babcock needs husband Keith's help to walk after she was left weakened by a 1997 infection contracted during cardiac surgery at Bridgeport Hospital.
"It's had an effect on infection control and it's had an effect on our ability to recruit and retain workers. It's had an effect on our ability to invest in new and updated equipment as much as we would like to," said Rick Wade, spokesman for the AHA.

"It's also a question in front of society. How much do you want to invest in high-quality, safe medical care?"

Among recent incidents in which hospital-linked infections were cited, the newspaper noted a 1998 case in which eight children died at a Chicago pediatric medical center; a 1997 Detroit case in which four babies died in 1997; and an infection at a West Palm Beach, Florida, hospital where 13 people cardiac patients died in the late 1990s.

Copyright 2002 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed

[Stultis]

American Tort Reform Association

ATRA's Links Page (well selected list with Citizens for a Sound Economy, Overlawyered, The Federalist Society, etc)

Terrorism & Tort Reform (Compost Editorial)

Joint Economic Committe - Tort Reform Reports (House of Reps, Jim Saxton, R-NJ, Chairman)

Search Results on "Tort Reform" from The Cato Institute

The Doctors Company - Tort Reform Page

(Ralph) Nader2000's Tort Reform Report (Mega Barf Alert! Nader's idea of "tort reform" is more and larger lawsuits.)

[Dan from Michigan]

Thanks. That Saxton one is a gold mine, especially with the auto reference(It's a Michigan conservative group that this is for)

[Stultis]

Lawsuits are NOT the Cause of Rising Medical Malpractice Insurance Rates.

LOL! So says the American Trial Lawyer's Association.

Smoking doesn't cause lung cancer either. Just ask the tobacco institute.

[Stultis]

You're welcome. All those came from the first page or two of Google results on "tort reform," although it was one of the JEC reports that turned up. In that and a couple other cases I backed you up to the relevant index or search page.

[bigeasy_70118]

1) Why is it bad when liberals whine about much CEOs make but conservatives can whine all they want about fees for plaintiff lawyers?

2)Why are conservatives for states rights, yet most favor some federal legislation on tort reform?

3)The Insurance industry has been badly managed since about 1990, and have not had enough reserves to pay claims. That's why rates are so high.

4)Keep in mind one thing: At the end of a lawsuit, the insurance company is going to be in business the next day, regardless of whether it wins or loses and the size of the verdict. The plaintiff, on the other hand, may never work again, may never see their loved one again and the plaintiff's lawyer may be facing bankruptcy if it loses. See the end result in the movie A Civil Action.

[End The Hypocrisy]

LOL is fine as a response, but it's more helpful to the analysis if it's coupled with a persuasive analysis of the facts that the trial lawyers folks have presented. Otherwise we conservatives seem like we're merely trying to enable special interests to be above the law, in exchange for campaign contributions and the like.

[Dan from Michigan]

1) Why is it bad when liberals whine about much CEOs make but conservatives can whine all they want about fees for plaintiff lawyers?

I don't whine about the fees. I whine when congress doesn't tell them to screw off or when tax money is used for their fees. In fact, my bigger beef is with these state attorney generals doing these suits. 2)Why are conservatives for states rights, yet most favor some federal legislation on tort reform?

Federal tort reform for federal courts.

3)The Insurance industry has been badly managed since about 1990, and have not had enough reserves to pay claims. That's why rates are so high.

These lawsuits aren't helping anything.

4)Keep in mind one thing: At the end of a lawsuit, the insurance company is going to be in business the next day, regardless of whether it wins or loses and the size of the verdict. The plaintiff, on the other hand, may never work again, may never see their loved one again and the plaintiff's lawyer may be facing bankruptcy if it loses. See the end result in the movie A Civil Action.

I'm not defending the insurance companies so much here. I have problems with them as well, especially when they become nannies. My problem is these lawyers suing businesses out of business. McDonalds lawsuit of coffee, gun manufacuters, fast food, junk food, tobacco, etc. That's wrong. There is a proper way - legislation. Not litigation, and that's why these jerks need to be stopped.

[End The Hypocrisy]

>>>My problem is these lawyers suing businesses out of business.<<<<

We're a capitalistic society, so we haven't socialized the provision of plaintiffs' legal services like we have criminal defense. Otherwise there'd be little if any worthwhile service to those who are genuinely harmed and deserving of compensation. Have you ever complained to the Federal Trade Commission or the FBI and regretted how they make no promises to get back to you, or even pursue your case unless plenty others appear like it? Who's going to look out for the little guy like you and me though? I'm not saying the system's perfect by any means, but attempts to reform it need to be well-crafted or they'll get laughed at and ignored (perhaps with good reason). Like you I'm a conservative but I've also had some painfully eye-opening experiences with why things are the way they are.


>>>>McDonalds lawsuit of coffee, gun manufacuters, fast food, junk food, tobacco, etc. That's wrong. There is a proper way - legislation. Not litigation, and that's why these jerks need to be stopped.<<<<<


Legislative reform often gets thwarted by special interests; you know that. Courts give some power back to the people though. Otherwise, how are we different from much of Latin America where consumer rights are comparatively a joke?

[Stultis]

LOL is fine as a response, but it's more helpful to the analysis if it's coupled with a persuasive analysis of the facts that the trial lawyers folks have presented.

How about the facts they IGNORE. For instance that, even though lawsuits allegedly don't cause high costs for malpractice insurance (sorry, still laughing) rates are highest in the states with the least restraints on torts. Try this. Michigan passed tort reform in 1993, largely because medical specialists were streaming out of the state and citizens were having major difficulities getting speciality care. My prediction: You will find that malpractice insurance rates plummetted in Michigan after 1993 (and probably have been slowly rising since as trial lawyers have picked away at the new law). What is your prediction. Remember lawsuits don't cause high insurance rates! LOL!

[YadaYada]

Try www.overlawyered.com