Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Why do Bush/Ashcroft continue anti-gun policies?
Keep and Bear Arms ^ | 28 August 2002 | Harry Schneider

Posted on 08/28/2002 5:16:11 PM PDT by 45Auto

The Bush administration is taking the most radical anti-gun position possible in the most important Supreme Court case in 60 years. The announced Bush position is that US Courts should not be allowed to even consider restoring the 2nd Amendment rights of Americans who lost those rights under the GCA 68 provision that says that your gun rights are forfeit if you were ever convicted of a felony or certain misdemeanors.

This includes domestic felonies like bringing a single round of hollow point pistol ammunition into New Jersey. The loss of gun rights is ex-post-facto and foreign felonies are included, this includes foreign felony convictions for the crime of smuggling bibles into Communist countries or teaching Christianity in certain Islamic countries.

It doesn't even take a felony like unknowingly entering Mexico with a box of ammunition (like Bean). You will also lose your gun rights if you were ever convicted of a state misdemeanor where you "could" have gotten more than two years. Until 1972 almost all Pennsylvania misdemeanors were ungraded and were punishable by up to three years. Thus almost every pre 72 Pennsylvania conviction for any misdemeanor such as a single DWI, drag racing or bastardy mandates the lifelong loss of gun rights even if no one was harmed and no jail times was involved. In Pennsylvania, with NRA support, they unsealed previously sealed juvenile records and took away the gun rights of people who were convicted of very minor offenses back in the 50's as 60's and have been model citizens ever since.

Since 1992 Congress has each year defunded the provision that allowed people to petition ATF to get their rights restored. This denial of due process caused some district courts to hear some appeals. Bush/Ashcroft/Olsen have announced an intention to argue before the Supreme Court that Unites States Courts should have no authority to even consider restoring gun rights in any case even if, like Bean the rights were taken for violating a foreign law that is no longer a felony in Mexico and is a Constitutionally protected right in the United States.

Bean is just one of the numerous anti-gun positions taken by the Bush Administration. Additional examples include disarming airline pilots, Emerson, and arguing that the total DC gun ban is a reasonable restriction on the 2nd Amendment.

Grass roots gun rights activists are aware of this and if Bush does not change soon, his anti-gun policies may harm the election chances of other establishment Republicans.

If the NRA gave Bush's actions the front page publicity that they deserve, the members would pressure Bush to get on track and he would have a better chance of being re-elected.

UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE FIFTH CIRCUIT

No. 00-40304

THOMAS LAMAR BEAN,

Petitioner-Appellee,

versus

BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS; UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

Respondents-Appellants.

Appeal from the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas, Beaumont

June 20, 2001

Before POLITZ, DeMOSS, and STEWART, Circuit Judges.

POLITZ, Circuit Judge:

The Government appeals the trial court's finding that it had jurisdiction to review the application of Thomas Lamar Bean for relief from the federal firearm disabilities resulting from a conviction in Mexico, as well as its grant of said relief therefrom.

We affirm.

BACKGROUND

The facts of this case illustrate in caps underscored why Congress added the relief provision to the Federal Firearms Act, giving certain convicted felons an avenue to regain the right to possess a firearm. They are set forth in great detail in the trial court's opinion; we merely summarize them here.

In March 1998, Bean, a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms licensed firearms dealer, was in Laredo, Texas, participating in a gun show. One evening he and three assistants decided to cross the border into Mexico for dinner. He directed his assistants to remove any firearms and ammunition from his vehicle, a Chevrolet Suburban, before crossing the border; however, a box of ammunition containing approximately 200 rounds inadvertently was left in the back. The box was in plain view and Mexican customs officers saw it when they sought to enter the Mexican Port of Entry at Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas, Mexico. At the time importing ammunition into Mexico was considered a felony.(1) The three assistants were subsequently released but Bean, as the owner of the Suburban and the ammunition, was charged and convicted of the felony of unlawfully importing ammunition.(2)

Bean was incarcerated in Mexico for approximately six months before being released to the custody of the United States under the International Prisoner Transfer Treaty. He thereafter spent another month in federal prison before being released under supervision. As a convicted felon, under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1) Bean lost all rights to possess firearms. Section 925(c) of the statute, however, provides a means for relief from the firearms disabilities. Upon completion of his period of supervision in July, 1999, Bean petitioned the BATF for such relief so that he might return to his business.

At issue herein is the action and inaction of Congress since 1992. For this nigh decade, Congress has stated in its annual budget appropriation bill that "none of the funds appropriated herein shall be available to investigate or act upon applications for relief from Federal firearms disabilities under 18 U.S.C § 925(c)."(3) Because the BATF could not use any appropriated funds to fulfill its responsibilities under the statute, it sent Bean a notice that it would not act upon his request due to the congressional action. Bean then petitioned the district court, contending that the BATF's letter denied his petition and exhausted his administrative remedies.

The district court, in its detailed Memorandum Opinion, discussed the statute, congressional actions, the various circuit opinions on this issue, including our decision in United States v. McGill,(4) and determined that it did, in fact, have jurisdiction to hear Bean's appeal. In granting Bean's petition it further found that the facts of this case underscore why § 925(c) permitted not only judicial review, but judicial supplementation of the record to prevent a miscarriage of justice.

ANALYSIS

Jurisdiction

In McGill we noted that Congress, through its appropriations acts, had reflected an intent to suspend the relief provided to individuals by § 925(c). As a consequence we opined that we lacked subject matter jurisdiction. As the Government correctly notes, ordinarily an inferior court is not at liberty to disregard the mandate of a superior court.(5) But in the instance herein presented, we must examine carefully the reasons and analysis by the trial court, and our earlier decision in light of, notably, the intervening passage of time and its effect.

The trial court, as had the McGill panel, extensively detailed the legislative history of the relief provisions and reached a different conclusion, noting: "Ultimately, the Court recognizes that an advocate can find an abundance of legislative history to support his position."(6) We do not here parse the committee or floor commentary but, rather, examine congressional action/inaction and its continuing effect.

As noted in the trial court's opinion, Congress first amended the Federal Firearms Act in 1965 to provide the potential and mechanism for certain convicted felons to obtain relief from federal firearms disabilities by petitioning the Secretary of the Treasury. It amended the relief provision in 1986 to provide for judicial review of executive decisions in order to better ensure that relief was available for those felons whose convictions were based on technical or unintentional violations.

In large measure, as a result of newspaper editorials about the cost to taxpayers of performing the investigations necessary under the relief provision,(7) as well as a report published by the Violence Policy Center listing instances wherein convicted felons had their firearms privileges restored and committed violent crimes,(8) a senate bill entitled the Stop Arming Felons (SAFE) Act was introduced in 1992 to eliminate the relief provision.(9) That bill, however, was never reported out of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Although it obviously has the power, Congress has not enacted legislation eliminating or amending § 925(c). Rather, both the House and Senate Appropriations Committees proposed language for the Treasury, Postal Service, and General Government Appropriations Act for Fiscal Year 1993 that precluded the BATF from using any appropriated funds to investigate petitions for such relief.(10) That language was incorporated in the appropriations bill ultimately passed that year and has been included in each subsequent annual appropriations act relating to BATF funding.(11)

We observed in McGill that "Congress has the power to amend, suspend or repeal a statute by an appropriations bill, as long as it does so clearly."(12) We cited Robertson v. Seattle Audubon Soc.(13) as authority for that proposition. Robertson opined "[A]lthough repeals by implication are especially disfavored in the appropriations context . . . Congress nonetheless may amend substantive law in an appropriations statute, as long as it does so clearly."(14)

The "especially disfavored" language hales from the high court's opinion in Tennessee Valley Authority v. Hill, et al.,(15) wherein the Court stated that the doctrine disfavoring repeals by implication "applies with ever greater force when the claimed repeal rests solely on an Appropriations Act."(16) In the subsequent Will case, upon which the Robertson Court relied, it addressed Congress' failure to fund promised federal pay raises previously authorized by statute by refusing to appropriate funds for those raises in each year's Appropriation Act. In Will the Court found Congress' actions were clear and intentional, and thus effectively rescinded the authorized raise for each year.(17) That decision led to the Court's comments in Robertson, noted above, upon which the McGill panel relied.

We find the facts at bar readily distinguishable from Will, and thus distinguishable from Robertson. Will involved authorized salary increases, a purely financial right, that Congress refused to fund. When it passed the Executive Salary Cost-of-Living Adjustment Act (18) in 1975 Congress promised certain federal employees annual cost-of-living salary increases, based upon certain financial criteria. It then changed its mind and rescinded that year's increase in each of the four years beginning in 1977.(19)

In the case at bar, Congress is not merely promising money then changing its mind and not making it available. Nor is it directly suspending a statutory provision. In enacting § 925(c) Congress granted certain persons administrative and judicial rights. The SAFE Act proposed to withdraw those rights, but Congress did not adopt that withdrawal. The Government insists, however, that Congress indirectly has abrogated those rights by necessarily recognizing same but declining expenditure of any funds for their enforcement. We find that action clearly distinguishable from the facts in the cited precedential cases and inimical to our constitutional system of justice.

In its early review of this conundrum, the McGill panel relied on Robertson. In addition to the noted factual differences of Robertson, Will, and Dickerson, we have a critical additional factor, the intervening passage of time and the resulting reality of the effective non-temporary "suspension" of statutorily created rights. We must conclude that Congress seeks to abrogate administrative and judicial rights it created, by using funding bills, after declining to address actual amendments to or revocation of the creating statute. Section 925(c) was enacted for apparently valid reasons, and citizens like Bean are entitled to the rights therein created and authorized unless and until Congress determines to change same. We must now conclude that merely refusing to allow the agency responsible for facilitating those rights to use appropriated funds to do its job under the statute is not the requisite direct and definite suspension or repeal of the subject rights. We further hold that when the BATF notified Bean that it would not act on his petition, his administrative remedies de facto were exhausted.(20) Accordingly, the trial court had jurisdiction to entertain this appeal.

The Merits

The Government cites as error the trial court's grant of relief, contending without citing any authority that when reviewing the actions of an administrative agency the court "stands in the shoes" of that agency and is bound by the applicable federal regulations. Here the Government contends 27 C.F.R. § 178.144(d) precludes relief where the petitioner is prohibited from possessing all types of firearms in the state in which he resides. It asserts that because Bean resides in Texas and under Texas law a convicted felon cannot possess firearms for five years after being released from confinement or supervised release,(21) it could not have granted his petition for relief in any event; therefore, the district court erred as a matter of law in doing so.

At the threshold we unqualifiedly reject the suggestion that a court stands in the shoes of an agency and is bound by all of its implementing regulations. Substantive federal regulations carry the force and effect of federal law; however, interpretive regulations serve merely to guide a court in applying a statute.(22) Generally, where a regulation "appears supported by the plain language of the statute and is adopted pursuant to the explicit grant of rulemaking authority," that regulation is considered as having legislative effect and accorded more than mere deference.(23) We find nothing in 27 C.F.R. § 178.144(d) that would come under such a definition. Nothing in § 925(c) authorizes the Secretary to restrict relief only to those cases where relief is available at the state level; indeed, nothing in the statute pertaining to relief even refers to the states. Section 925(c) pertains strictly to federal firearms disabilities and to relief from those federal disabilities. Absent any statutory language tying federal disabilities to state disabilities, or authorizing the Secretary to do so, we must hold that 27 C.F.R. § 178.144(d) is merely an interpretive regulation and does not bind the district court in its determination.(24) Concluding that the trial court did not err as a matter of law in granting the relief requested, we need not and do not address its determination that Bean's foreign conviction was not a predicate offense triggering the provisions of 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1).

CONCLUSION

We are mindful of the serious concerns articulated about convicted felons regaining the right to possess firearms, and of the need for congressional review and enhancement of the safeguards and procedures for appropriately accomplishing this apparently worthy goal, but we are faced herein with the almost incredible plight of Thomas Bean who, at most, was negligent in not ensuring that his associates completely performed the simple task directed, and who served months in Mexican and U.S. prisons for a simple oversight. We do not believe that any reasonable observer is persuaded that his offense creates a likelihood he represents a threat to the public's well-being, and it is beyond peradventure to believe that Congress, or those seeking to rescind § 925(c), intended for someone like Bean to lose his livelihood on the basis of the facts such as are before us. Neither equity nor the law require such an injustice.

The judgment appealed is AFFIRMED.

1. Purportedly because of the publicity arising from this case the offense has been reduced to a misdemeanor.

2. The record reflects the difficulties experienced by Bean during his arrest and initial incarceration, primarily based upon procedural issues which were compounded by his unfamiliarity with the Spanish language. Bean and the trial court both refer to these difficulties as raising constitutional concerns. Our disposition of this appeal does not rely thereon.

3. See Treasury, Postal Service and General Government Appropriations Act, 1993, Pub. L. No. 102-393, 106 Stat. 1729, 1732 (1992). The first year Congress denied the BATF funds to investigate any convicted felon. Beginning in Fiscal Year 1994, and in all subsequent appropriation acts applying to the BATF, a provision was added allowing funds to be used to investigate convicted corporate felons. See infra note 11.

4. 74 F.3d 64 (5th Cir. 1996)(finding that federal courts have no jurisdiction to hear appeals from individuals).

5. See e.g., Gegenheimer v. Galan, 920 F.2d 307 (5th Cir. 1991).

6. Bean v. United States, 89 F. Supp. 2d 828, 835 (E.D. Tex. 2000).

7. See, e.g., Why Are We Rearming Felons?, Washington Post, Sept. 25, 1991, at A24 (describing the relief provision as a "loophole"); and Felon Gun Program Should Be Disabled, Chicago Sun-Times, July 1, 1992, at 31.

8. Josh Sugarman, Putting Guns Back Into The Hands Of Felons: 100 Case Studies of Felons Granted Relief From Disability Under Federal Firearms Laws, Violence Policy Center (1992). The Center is a Washington, D.C. based gun-control advocacy group.

9. See 138 Cong. Rec. S2674-04, S2675 (daily ed. March 3, 1992)(floor comments on S. 2304 by its co-sponsor, Sen. Lautenberg (D-N.J.)). We note with particular irony that according to Sen. Lautenberg the original relief provision was enacted specifically to rescue the Winchester Firearms Co., whose parent corporation Olin Winchester had pleaded guilty to felony counts on a kickback scheme and whose very existence was threatened by the subsequent denial of its ability to possess and sell firearms. As previously noted, beginning in 1993 Congress amended its appropriations language to permit the BATF to process petitions for relief made by corporations. In the case at bar we are presented with a situation that is virtually indistinguishable from that used to justify those actions, i.e., absent the ability to possess and sell firearms Bean will lose his business. Bean is his "corporation," and the inequities of the situation are readily apparent. To the suggestion that a corporation, unlike an individual, cannot be a physical threat to use firearms to harm the public we note that the record is replete with testimony from legislators, law enforcement officers and BATF agents as to Bean's lawful character.

10. See H.R. Rep. 102-618 (1992); S. Rep. 102-353 (1992).

11. Treasury, Postal Service, and General Government Appropriations Act, 1994, Pub. L. No. 103-123, 107 Stat. 1226, 1228 (1993); Treasury, Postal Service, and General Government Appropriations Act, 1995, Pub. L. No. 103-329, 108 Stat. 2382,2385 (1994); Treasury, Postal Service, and General Government Appropriations Act, 1996, Pub. L. No. 104-52, 109 Stat. 468, 471 (1995); Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act, 1997, Pub. L. No. 104-208, 110 Stat. 3009-319 (1996); Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 1998, Pub. L. No. 105-61, 111 Stat. 1272, 1277 (1997); Omnibus Consolidated and Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act, 1999, Pub. L. No. 105-277, 112 Stat. 2681-485 (1998); Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2000, Pub. L. No. 106-58, 113 Stat. 430, 434 (1999); and Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2001, Pub. L. No. 106-554, 114 Stat. 2763, 2763A-129, (2000).

12. McGill, 74 F.3d at 66.

13. 503 U.S. 429 (1992).

14. Robertson, 503 U.S. at 440 (citing United States v. Will, et al., 437 U.S. 153 (1978)).

15. 437 U.S. 153 (1977).

16. Id. at 190 (emphasis in original).

17. With the exception of federal judges for two of the four years in question, where the Appropriation Act violated the Compensation Clause.

18. Pub. L. No. 94-82, 89 Stat. 419 (1975).

19. The Supreme Court considered and rejected the contention that the authorized increase remained outstanding but unfunded, concluding t


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: banglist; copernicus; rkba
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 181-200201-220221-240 ... 261-270 next last
To: jwalsh07; Noumenon; wardaddy; Shooter 2.5; Squantos; harpseal; archy
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well then, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

~~Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

The US Code containing all Federal statutes consisted in 1999 of 56,117 single spaced pages, consisting of 47 volumes taking up nine feet of shelf space. That's not counting state, county and municipal laws, going back to 30 year old nonviolent misdemeanors, any one of which may be applied to disarm a citizen.

201 posted on 08/29/2002 7:42:19 AM PDT by Travis McGee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: 45Auto
I guess a summary of the "Bean" opinion and a link to the original would have been too difficult to do?

Regarding the Bush Administration being anti-gun: who did you think we were electing, Neal Knox?
President Bush has other things on his plate in addition to gun laws; the war in Afghanistan, for example. He's not going to squander his political capital on tossing out bad gun laws.
It's the responsibility of the Congress to write, re-write, or delete laws. It's your responsibility to understand the process, and to write your Congresscritter and convince him to do the right thing.
202 posted on 08/29/2002 7:42:42 AM PDT by Redbob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AAABEST
Usually I just scroll past the statist jack boot lickers the way I step over a dog turd on the sidewalk.
203 posted on 08/29/2002 7:45:19 AM PDT by Travis McGee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: Noumenon
Read the article again; you'll see that it's not the Bushies that are the problem.
Here, I'll quote the part you missed the first time:

"Since 1992 Congress has each year defunded the provision that allowed people to petition ATF to get their rights restored."

204 posted on 08/29/2002 7:45:21 AM PDT by Redbob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: ExSoldier
If the INS was run like the BATF, every illegal alien in America would be arrested, deported, shot or burned alive in one month.

If the BATF was run like the INS, you could keep howitzers in your backyard and fire them across town morning noon and night.

(I just want a list of which laws "really count", and which laws I can ignore.)

205 posted on 08/29/2002 7:49:38 AM PDT by Travis McGee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: takenoprisoner
Here's tip for the new millieum folks. Drive a junker, keep the papers current, and claim to be an outta work junkie and you'll do fine.

Forget the papers. Claim to be an "undocumented immigrant", local police will hold you a few hours and release you when the INS tells them to.

206 posted on 08/29/2002 7:52:12 AM PDT by Travis McGee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 100 | View Replies]

To: Eaker
"smoke 'em if you got 'em"

And if you don't have them borrow them from your buddy.

207 posted on 08/29/2002 8:50:59 AM PDT by Recon by Fire
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
You don't know what the hell you're talking about. What gun rights have you lost under Bush?Please be so kind as to inform me what usurped gun rights have been restored under the Bush adminitration.

Thank you in advance

208 posted on 08/29/2002 8:53:35 AM PDT by harpseal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: 45Auto
Because the folks in Washington D.C. veiw those of us not in the govt.service as the Pratorian guard of the political class are basicly expendable peasants on a good day on a bad day we are expendable SERFS
209 posted on 08/29/2002 9:36:22 AM PDT by Nebr FAL owner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nopardons
Big deal. This is only important if you think there is something SPECIAL about Texas. There isn't.
210 posted on 08/29/2002 9:53:10 AM PDT by Scarlet Pimpernel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 135 | View Replies]

To: Redbob
It's your responsibility to understand the process, and to write your Congresscritter and convince him to do the right thing.

I live in a political district with Senatrixes Babs Boxer and Dianne Feinstein, Rep. Pete Stark, State Assemblymen John Dutra and State Senatrix Liz Figueroa. On top of that, my governor is Dufus Davis and the AG is Bill (I Hate Your Guns) Lockyer. These people have a lock on political power. I have worked tirelessly for over ten years against these miscreants; contributed mightily to PACs and conservative (such as they are) candidates. My solution is to leave this area as soon as I retire.

211 posted on 08/29/2002 10:22:45 AM PDT by 45Auto
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 202 | View Replies]

To: harpseal
Do you own any guns? What can you NOT do now that you COULD do before Bush became President? What is it you think you should be able to do that you can't do? I don't want a bunch of rhetoric about what might happen to someone. I'm talking specifically about you and how you are and have been affected.
212 posted on 08/29/2002 10:27:18 AM PDT by MEGoody
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 208 | View Replies]

To: Mo1
I guess if I ever want to move to Texas I need to learn the secret hand shake huh??

Here's a little tidbit that I learned accidently. I travel to a High Power Rifle Match every month that's near the Oklahoma border. We always stop at a gas station that has a snack corner that reminds me of a old country store. We're there at 8:00 AM and the ranchers are in there having coffee already after checking their stock. Right after the Lewinsky affair, I heard a 75+ year old rancher lamenting on the scandal. He mentioned that no one in his family had voted anything other than democrat since before the Civil War and he wasn't sure if he should start voting Republican. Here is an old time TEXAN. Rifle rack in the pickup truck. Probably never bought anything other than a Colt or a Winchester in his life and he's part of the Schumer, Boxer, Kennedy, and Feinstein group. Some of these old TEXANS should wake up and start smelling that coffee they've been drinking. By the way, I'm not a TEXAN. I'm AMERICAN.

213 posted on 08/29/2002 1:51:20 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 153 | View Replies]

To: tahiti
Putting a felon in jail abridges his liberty Tahiti. Executing a felon would certainly qualify as abridgng his right to life. Why do you have a problem understanding these things?
214 posted on 08/29/2002 3:51:41 PM PDT by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 194 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee
BTTT!
215 posted on 08/29/2002 5:36:56 PM PDT by wardaddy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 205 | View Replies]

To: nopardons
Don't talk to me about speaking volumes when you didn't answer my question. And you can stuff all that other BS you said about me.

If our elected morons continuely break the one thing they sworn in to uphold is the Constitution. Bush and most of the others in elected positions have repeatedly broke this oath. Therefore I say that anybody who knowingly goes against the Constitution is ADVANCING THE LIBERAL AGENDA.
That includes your King Bush.
216 posted on 08/29/2002 5:58:54 PM PDT by jwh_Denver
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 142 | View Replies]

To: jwalsh07
Bush/Ashcroft have made it quite clear that the RTKABA is an INDIVIDUAL right.

If you bothered to read the position of the RINO Bush gun rights position espoused by Ted Olson, you would know that the position of this administration is that the Second Amendment is a right, so long as the federal government can impose "reasonable restrictions" on it. Who defines reasonable? Why, whatever federal government is in power at the time. If Bush really supported the Second Amendment, pilots would be armed in the cockpits today. If Bush really supported the Second Amendment, he would refuse to sign the renewal for the Assault Weapon ban... something he has yet to sign, of course, but a law which he has promised to renew when it crosses his desk.

The Bush support of the Second Amendment is riddled with loopholes and excuses to impose more government control. But I see the water temperature is being raised to the boiling point comfortably enough for you.

When the government doesn't have enough criminals, it makes them. The people who think that all felonies are created equal are ignorant. Felonies can be created at the stroke of a pen, heedless of their intent, societal harm, or rational. Anyone who believes that they are in compliance with every law on the federal books is nuts. Hell, I had a boat sink once and the Coast Guard was there, ready to charge me with felony pollution from gasoline leaking into the water.

Those of you who think all felons should lose all rights in this day and age of federal tyranny are nuts.

217 posted on 08/29/2002 6:20:12 PM PDT by Jesse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Jesse
Its obvious either you haven't read my posts here or you didn't understand them. I've made myself clear. If you're interested in my position read it, or not.
218 posted on 08/29/2002 6:22:51 PM PDT by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 217 | View Replies]

To: jwalsh07
I read this post, on this forum. Your position seems clear enough to me.
219 posted on 08/29/2002 7:01:27 PM PDT by Jesse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 218 | View Replies]

To: jwalsh07
Suppose felons were to be prohibited, as part of their sentence, from criticizing the government, or from attending Catholic Mass. Would that be constitutionally kosher in your view? And is the second amendment any less sacrosanct than the first?
220 posted on 08/29/2002 7:09:38 PM PDT by inquest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 181-200201-220221-240 ... 261-270 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson