Group of pilots disputes question official version of 9/11

The Portugal News ^ | 8/3/02 | The Portugal News

[Trust but Verify]

I threw one of my wife's friends out my house for spouting such anti-American, Leftist BS.

My God, that is funny! I'd LOVE to see something like that!

[alnick]

Pathetic, isn't it.

[semaj]

Garbaaage! In my best French accent.

[DrLiberty]

DEAD: "The highjackers that hit the first tower flew right down the Hudson River. It’s a nice big, visible-from-the-sky map that will take you right from upstate NY, directly to the southern tip of Manhattan. You just have to hold onto the controls and scream “Allah is great!” over and over again until you see the big buildings."

Wait a minute, I thought they used GPS, right? So you mean to tell me they flew out of their way and had a plan to go west until they hit "The Big River Hudson" and then follow it south.

You are too much of a moron to be declaring others morons, moron.

[DrLiberty]

"The reference to "electro-magnetic pulse" is PURE tinfoil hattism"

So youre saying that EMP's don't exist?

Wow, you guys just wrap that tin-foil label over everything, don't you? What a clever alternative to discussion.

[schmelvin]

Fellow FReepers have torn this bogus article and your illogical arguments to shreds, yet you still cling to this ridiculous conspiracy theory. Why? Do you really believe this nonsense, or do you just so desperately want to believe it? And again, Why? Do you think it's your patriotic duty to attempt to lump true patriots together with tin foil hat wearing, black helicopter sighting morons?

There's nothing wrong with questioning the actions and motives of our representatives in government. That's the American way. But, spouting wild conspiracy theories that verge on slander and that can be easily shot down is no way to do it. Who's going to listen to you come the day when you do have a valid argument after you've discredited yourself by supporting this garbage?

I suppose the Florida flight instructors who reported that the hi-jackers said they only wanted to learn how to fly a plane, but had no interest in bothering to learn how to take off or land are part of this grand conspiracy, too.

Pre-9/11, American intelligence agencies definitely had their heads up their posteriors. No doubt about that. Did they close their eyes and knowingly let 9/11 happen? I don't think so. They either had their eyes ripped out by a Clinton administration that crippled them, or were blindfolded and shackled by PC bullsh*t... or both. They're no longer crippled IMO, but still blindfolded and shackled. The PC gods still reign in America and hunger for human sacrifices, which they'll probably get when a terrorist, who was gleefully issued a visa or allowed to cross our border post-9/11, sets off a dirty nuke in a major American city or commits some other atrocity.

My reservations for certain aspects of the Patriot Act aside, if 9/11 is all some part of a grand conspiracy to pull America deeper into the UN and a New World Order, it isn't working very well. Americans are awake, disgusted with the UN and our foreign critics more than ever, we've been acting "in-your-face" unilaterally, and have told the ICC, the Kyoto weenies, and the disarmament freaks to go to h3ll. Plus, with each passing day our own Fifth Column looks more and more like the fools and traitors they are in the eyes of the average American.

We still have a lot of problems, our share of idiots, and some very bad policies to deal with. There are those who would use 9/11 as an excuse to restrict our freedoms, and we must remain vigilant now more than ever before. But, mindlessly swallowing bogus conspiracy theories is not vigilance, it's a distraction from the true battles we should be prepared to fight.

[DrLiberty]

If all the information and arguments contained in this article are so bogus, why are so many people, yourself included SO concerned with it, since its so OBVIOUSLY all untrue?

I'm not sure I ever said I supported everything the article states. I'm not aware that was ever a requirement for posting here. If it is, it will make thios a sterile, boring, useless forum. I posted it because the people behind this report seem to have some knowledge based on their alleged backgrounds to make a case. Also it was reported by a fairly substantial size publication, The Portugal News, one of the very few publications to inform its readers that the Bilderberg Conference was going to be held in Portugal 2 years ago and what it deals with. American newspapers lavish attention on the G-8 conferences and deliberately ignore the Bilderberg, even though its composed of some of the most influential and powerful leaders and newmakers in the world. I guess you would consider that to be not suitable for this forum either.

As to my "defense" of this "torn to shreds" article, I have attacked only some of the most illogical non-thinking kneejerk statements made.

1. I dont know if the planes were remote controlled, but the technology exists. It was tested over the Pacific Ocean.

2. Why are none of the hijackers listed on the passenger lists? No one has bothered answering this.

3. If you doubt that people in high positions of power aren't capable of being involved in this I have a few questions for you:

Was FDR aware of Pearl Harbor attack and did he let it go forward? Most historians would now say yes. Was it planned long in advance? Secretary of State Cordell Hull said as much.

Have we manipulated politics to cause wars in the past? Yes. Spanish-American War was with the sinkling of the Maine. Pearl Harbor. The communists were induced to attack by our governments statements, much like Hussain attacked Kuwait after April Glaspie said we wouldn't defend it.

Then there is Operation Northwoods. You can read the actual documents, the plan put together by the Joint Chiefs to set Cuba up to take the fall for an attack on America to be launched by the US Military, including blowing up and shooting down commercial airliners and blaming it on Cuba as a pretext to invade it! That's public record. JFK nixed it, thank God.

There is a lot of smoke to indicate a fire exists. Take all the record put options put on the airline and insurance stocks....just happened to be American and United airlines only. Gee, where'd that investigation go?

Look at the close connections of the Bush family and the Bin-Ladins. Look at the alleged hijackers. 15 of the 19 came from Saudi and none of them were particularly religious, they were all rich. just like Bin-Laden. A rich playboy who finds God. And hijackers who apparently didn't know the end result of their mission. And an administration already on Cipro the night of the attacks.

No I'm not out of line to ask questions with stories that have a million holes in them, like the official version.

Why not just release the recording or transcript of the flight recorder flight 93? Because their arrogant and they know people like you will just buy anything rather than be labelled a kook.

I'm reminded of Thoreau when confronted at jail by his friend Ralph Waldo Emerson. "What are you doing in there, Henry?" "No, Ralph the question is, what you doing out there?".

[DrLiberty]

"The communists were induced to attack by our governments statements, much like Hussain attacked Kuwait after April Glaspie said we wouldn't defend it."

Should read "The communists were induced to attack in Korea by our government's statements, much like Hussain attacked Kuwait after April Glaspie said we wouldn't defend it."

[dead]

I never made any claim that they used GPS, you drooling halfwit.

I said the plane that hit the first tower flew down the Hudson River. Which it did, moron.

I know you think the evil Jews in AWACs were controlling the planes, but the fact of the matter is that the evil Jews (or David Rockefeller, the Bush family, and the Queen of England - whatever) wouldn't have needed to do that.

If you had two brain cells to rub together, it would be completely obvious to you that your evil little Jew conspiracy plan is so balls-ass ludicrous, you would be embarrassed to even suggest it.

But lacking those necessities, you think you've stumbled onto some nugget of brilliant information that will prove, once and for all, that you were right to hate the Jews all along, and everybody should give you credit.

How long before you shoot up a van load of yarmulke-wearing devils?

[bootless]

This lad has the wrong trousers on.

"Good Lord! It's you!"

[bootless]

"West of the Rockies, you're on the air!"

[bootless]

Wasn't there some guy caught/found in one of those hotels with a GPS receiver in the hotel safe?

Nope ... that was a handheld transceiver - it picks up aircraft frequencies, and has a push-to-talk button for transmitting as well.

[bootless]

It came from the room of an American pilot, and the guard was apparently trying to look like a big hero and planted the radio in the Arab's safe. Seems he'd been booted off of the Newark Police before becoming a hotel rent-a-cop.

No kidding - I hadn't heard that. Although I know quite a few pilots who have left their handhelds plugged in to charge, and then forget the darn thing when they check out of the hotel.

I hate fake heroes (ref.: Show Low Fire, Colorado Fire)

[general_re]

Yes, and a 737 has nowhere near the range to get from Edwards (Los Angeles area) to South Australia...

Exactly - I see I wasn't the only one for whom this bit stuck out. The latest model 737, according to this page from Boeing, has a maximum range of 3383 statute miles. This handy air distance calculator (LAX to MEL, if you feel the need to try it yourself) tells me that the distance from Los Angeles to Melbourne is 7923 statute miles.

Not that mere facts are usually enough to trip up proponents of theories like this, of course...

[DrLiberty]

DEAD: "I never made any claim that they used GPS, you drooling halfwit."

Did I say that? No, but your fellow pilers on here have. Read more carefully.

DEAD: "I said the plane that hit the first tower flew down the Hudson River. Which it did, moron."

No, you said they used it as a navigation device, there's a difference. Can you back that claim up, or is it just more supposition on your part? I guess any supposition is ok if it doesn't threaten the status quo, eh Dead?

DEAD: "I know you think the evil Jews in AWACs were controlling the planes, but the fact of the matter is that the evil Jews (or David Rockefeller, the Bush family, and the Queen of England - whatever) wouldn't have needed to do that...."

"How long before you shoot up a van load of yarmulke-wearing devils?"

Those are very hateful statements that make me not want to even finish this post, because its disgusting to even think about conversing with you. I've never suggested any Jewish conspiracy, mentioned Jews or Isreal ONCE in this thread, and you have the AUDACITY to spew this bile all over this thread, which is what is truly offensive here. I guess its not enough to just argue my points, you have to invent wild and racist copy that you imagine I think or feel. Its also very dangerous, because people will automatically think I in some way agree with those statements and that can get you in a lot of trouble these days. Clean up your mind and your mouth, Dead. You're obviously sick and twisted. And you're frothing at the mouth because I'm suggesting things you aren't comfortable with and that threatens you. That is a sign of weakness and lack of clarity.

[BluH2o]

This is nothing more than fabricated clap-trap ... total nonsense. Anybody can write anything and post it on the internet, or, for that matter, find some idiot editor who will allow it to run in some so called accredited publication.

[bootless]

Wait a minute, I thought they used GPS, right? So you mean to tell me they flew out of their way and had a plan to go west until they hit "The Big River Hudson" and then follow it south. You are too much of a moron to be declaring others morons, moron.

OK, hold on a minute here! If you knew anything about aviation - and I doubt you do - pilots (even the hijackin' kind) use GPS and other navigational instruments to get the plane pointed in the right direction, and visual reference to find the destination with precision ... and to avoid hitting stuff on the way there.

So, just cut out the name-calling. Once more, and I'm hitting the Abuse button on you. Given the ludicrousness of the theory, you don't have a lot of wiggle room by launching personal attacks. Unless that's what you're after. Yawn.

[bootless]

2. Why are none of the hijackers listed on the passenger lists? No one has bothered answering this.

They were. They were on the passenger manifests. One flight attendant identified them while talking to her airline base. They used credit cards.

[DrLiberty]

Bootless "So, just cut out the name-calling. Once more, and I'm hitting the Abuse button on you."

So attack and report me, after he called me the same thing FIRST. Oh, I see how it is, get me to fight back and then slam me as a way to get me and my "kook" views off the forum. Very clever. Yeah I'm sure you're going to report the others who have abused me. I'm sure you'll get right on that.

[Shooter 2.5]

We started the war by shooting at the little submarine that was filled with Japanese tourists on vacation to Hawaii. < sarcasm >