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US considered 'suicide jet missions'
BBC ^ | August 29, 2002 | BBC

Posted on 08/29/2002 5:33:11 PM PDT by The Energizer

Thursday, 29 August, 2002, 21:09 GMT 22:09 UK US considered 'suicide jet missions'

US Air Force commanders considered crashing fighter jets into hijacked planes on 11 September because of a lack of armed planes, a BBC investigation reveals. In the immediate aftermath of the terror attacks US fighter planes took to the skies to defend America from any further attacks.

Their mission was to protect President George W Bush and to intercept any hijacked aircraft heading to other targets in the US.

But, as a new BBC programme Clear The Skies reveals, the threat of an attack from within America had been considered so small that the entire US mainland was being defended by only 14 planes.

As a result unarmed planes were diverted from training missions in a desperate bid to increase the number of fighter planes patrolling American airspace.

Colonel Robert Marr was Commander of the North East Defence Sector and remembers the words that came over the secure phone "we will take lives in the air to preserve lives on the ground".

US military unprepared

However, at the time of the attacks the US had just four fighter pilots on alert covering the north eastern United States.

Colonel Marr: Too few planes to defend the US

US pilots were forced to take to the skies without any weapons and might have had to deliberately crash into a hijacked plane to prevent casualties on the ground.

"I had determined, of course, that with only four aircraft we cannot defend the whole north eastern United States," he said.

"Some of them would have just gotten in the air possibly without any armament onboard.

"If you had to stop an aircraft sometimes the only way to stop an aircraft is with your own aircraft if you don't have any weapons.

"It was very possible that they [the pilots] would have been asked to give their lives themselves to try to prevent further attacks if need be."

Colonel Marr said: "That was the sense of frustration, of I don't have the forces available to do anything about this, we've got everything up that we can get up and still can't do anything."

Two of the pilots patrolling north east America told the programme how they struggled to get to New York as fast as possible after the first plane had hit the World Trade Center.

Pilots "Duff" and "Nasty" recalled they were only minutes away when the second plane hit the towers.

Pilot Duff said: "For a long time I wondered what would have happened if we had been scrambled in time.

"We've been over the flight a thousand times in our minds and I don't know what we could have done to get there any quicker."


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: military; preparedness; terrorism; unitedstates
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This is shocking . . .
1 posted on 08/29/2002 5:33:12 PM PDT by The Energizer
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To: The Energizer
Shocking indeed. Fourteen unarmed planes defending the entire eastern seaboard. Could this be possible?

I wonder if a fighter pilot would obey an order to crash his plane into an airliner. I just don't think suicide missions are in our culture.

2 posted on 08/29/2002 5:37:37 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: The Energizer
Colonel Robert Marr was Commander of the North East Defence Sector and remembers the words that came over the secure phone "we will take lives in the air to preserve lives on the ground".

Who supposedly said this?

3 posted on 08/29/2002 5:38:51 PM PDT by michigander
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To: The Energizer
>>the entire US mainland was being defended by only 14 planes.

This is the Shocker. Of course, we were fat, dumb and happy in our complacency.

Kamikaze by US pilots were a sign of desperateness, but would the pilots have obey an order like that or done it on their own initiative? Who knows. At least someone was thinking desperate measures for desperate times.
4 posted on 08/29/2002 5:39:08 PM PDT by swarthyguy
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To: The Energizer
No - it is not. God bless our soldiers.
5 posted on 08/29/2002 5:39:24 PM PDT by patton
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To: SamAdams76
This is true only if you discount the Air National Guard.
6 posted on 08/29/2002 5:40:23 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: SamAdams76
I wonder if a fighter pilot would obey an order to crash his plane into an airliner. I just don't think suicide missions are in our culture.

What about the two snipers in Somalia who gave their lives for the helicopter pilot? They had to ask three times to be allowed to go. Amongst our Medal of Honor winners you'll find many cases of self sacrifice from our culture.
7 posted on 08/29/2002 5:41:46 PM PDT by Arkinsaw
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To: The Energizer
Shocking looking back at it, yes, but we were a different country then.

The military changed this policy immediately. In the days after 9-11 when air-traffic finally resumed, I personally witnessed a couple of Navy F-18/As tailing a jumbo jet into SFO from the rear balcony of the building I work in that is literally on the shoreline of the bay off Foster City, CA.

Those Hornets were bristling with missiles. Every hardpoint was filled. Fully-loaded for bear.

The racetrack flight patterns they were running over the 'Bay lasted for at least a week.

8 posted on 08/29/2002 5:42:54 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: Arkinsaw
I guess I was too hasty in making that statement. Yes, our soldiers have indeed gone on "suicide" missions to save their fellow soldiers and countrymen as you point out. I didn't think that statement out very carefully.

Certainly a Medal of Honor would have been in order had a fighter pilot been able to make it to one of those planes in time.

9 posted on 08/29/2002 5:45:10 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: SamAdams76
Hey Sam, I usually like your posts, but you have missed the target on this one.

I don't have to think any further than the firemen and police who died on 9/11 trying to evacuate as many people as possible out of the towers. Then of course I can't ignore the group that took the plane down over PA.

Our history is filled with people who have sacrificed their lives for others. Sacrificing your life to save others is a far different culture than sacrificing your life to destry something.

There is no comparision between the two acts.
10 posted on 08/29/2002 5:46:52 PM PDT by Freeper 007
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To: SamAdams76
Fourteen unarmed planes defending the entire eastern seaboard.

Rather, 14 armed planes over the whole mainland, 4 over the northeastern part. (Peraps not including Air National Guard).

the entire US mainland was being defended by only 14 planes.

at the time of the attacks the US had just four fighter pilots on alert covering the north eastern United States.


11 posted on 08/29/2002 5:46:55 PM PDT by Looking for Diogenes
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To: SamAdams76
I wonder if a fighter pilot would obey an order to crash his plane into an airliner. I just don't think suicide missions are in our culture.

If you mean PLANNED missions where superiors actually tell subordinates that they are going to kill themselves to acheive an objective, no. But if you mean an individual purposely giving his life for the life of another (falling on a grenade, or the snipers in Somalia), it is a common thread woven into the fabric of the American fighting man.

12 posted on 08/29/2002 5:47:31 PM PDT by TomB
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To: SamAdams76
Nevermind, I just saw your last post.
13 posted on 08/29/2002 5:47:58 PM PDT by Freeper 007
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To: SamAdams76
I wonder if a fighter pilot would obey an order to crash his plane into an airliner. I just don't think suicide missions are in our culture.

Towards the end of WWII, Hitler turned down proposals for suicide weapons, and he had people willing to volunteer for suicide missions. That even Hitler would not consider suicide weapons says something about Western attitudes; I highly doubt that anyone on 9/11 seriously considered ordering American pilots on suicide missions. This sounds like either made up rubbish, or idle talk which has been exaggerate to sound like a serious proposal.

14 posted on 08/29/2002 5:48:54 PM PDT by Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
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To: Non-Sequitur
This is true only if you discount the Air National Guard.

Thank you. But this wouldn't be a scoop for the BBC if they counted the National Guard.

15 posted on 08/29/2002 5:51:06 PM PDT by Jean S
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To: The Energizer
This is shocking . . .

It's also Bullshit!

There were at least 4 F-16s on alert at VTANG before and after 9/11

16 posted on 08/29/2002 5:51:39 PM PDT by JimVT
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To: The Energizer
If any Freepers can receive the BBC Two broadcasts, they will air a program on this.

Here are the details:

Clear the Skies - presented by the BBC's special correspondent Gavin Hewitt - will be broadcast on BBC Two on Sunday 1 September at 2100 BST.
17 posted on 08/29/2002 5:53:30 PM PDT by The Energizer
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To: SamAdams76
(...Shocking indeed. Fourteen unarmed planes defending the entire eastern seaboard. Could this be possible?...)

If US politicians assign higher priority to defending South Korea, Kuwait, Kosovo, Bosnia, Germany, and other overseas territories, what else would one expect on the domestic front? The US military is stretched thin all over the world.

Some of those planes in Saudi Arabia and in the no-fly zones of Iraq, should be brought back home, to protect the home turf.
18 posted on 08/29/2002 6:00:02 PM PDT by jstone78
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To: The Energizer
Just a thought too but I bet the pilot would have tried to eject somehow just before his plane collided. Plus, there might be other ways of doing it- I'm certainly not a pilot but couldn't the fighter get under the airliner's wingtip and give it nudge to destabilize it's flight somehow- maybe try to break on of the tail stabilizers or something? Probably raw speculation on my part but I'll stand by the ejection seat bit.
19 posted on 08/29/2002 6:01:59 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: swarthyguy
A pilot could probably set up a collision trajectory and eject just before impact.
20 posted on 08/29/2002 6:08:06 PM PDT by Prince Caspian
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