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'Arlington Springs Woman', 13,000 Years Old Human Skeleton, California Island
Newsday.com ^ | 9-3-2002 | Bryn Nelson

Posted on 09/03/2002 4:41:32 PM PDT by blam

A Second Look

Armed with better technology, archaeologists return to the resting place of North America’s oldest known inhabitant

Revisiting the past is never easy, and revisiting an old excavation site on a canyon wall makes for a particularly dicey trip.

Especially when it no longer exists.

Yet a recent return by scientists to the final resting place of Arlington Springs Woman, the oldest known inhabitant of North America, has provided a striking demonstration of new technology's power to restore the past and preserve it well into the future.

SNIP ( click here for entire article)

So far, he's obtained 16 dates from bone fragments, sediment, and charcoal samples. With a little help then, Arlington Springs Woman has been firmly bracketed between 10,850 and 11,200 radiocarbon years, meaning her ripe old calibrated age of 13,000 calendar years is increasingly secure. (Is this a yes?)

(Excerpt) Read more at newsday.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 000; 13; archaeology; arlington; california; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; island; springs; woman
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I did not post the entire article because the FR software would not let me. I guess it's something legal to do with Newsday?

The next oldest dated human skeleton in all the Americas is Luzia in Brazil at 11,500 years old.

1 posted on 09/03/2002 4:41:33 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Next oldest.......... Helen Thomas?
2 posted on 09/03/2002 4:44:44 PM PDT by umgud
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To: blam

Luzia, died at the age of 24, 11,500 years ago in Brazil.

3 posted on 09/03/2002 4:45:03 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Spirit Cave Man, died in his mid-40's, 9,400 years ago in Nevada.

4 posted on 09/03/2002 4:47:53 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Newsday did that to one of my posts also.

Can they tell much from a kneecap besides age and species?

5 posted on 09/03/2002 4:50:34 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: blam
Isn't anything that gets dug up that is more than 50 years old automatically considered to be a Sacred Indian Sacred Object (SISO) and ordered by the highest ranking local democrat left wing, extremist liberal politician to immediately be turned over to the appropriate Sacred Indian Sacred Oject caretaker? I sure hope these guys are not violating some Sacred Indian Sacred tribal mumbo-jumbo by their actions.

BTW, aren't our friends in Mumbai offended that these savages continue to call themselves "Indians" and profess to be offended by "Indian" knick names.

6 posted on 09/03/2002 4:50:57 PM PDT by Tacis
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To: RightWhale
"Can they tell much from a kneecap besides age and species?"

Apparently gender too. Don't expect to see a facial reconstruction of this one. lol

I read that George Carter claims to have found evidence of dwarf rhinos that were roasted in a camp fire on this island that are dated at 100,000 years old. No-one would listen to him. This info is contained in his book, Older Than You Think.

7 posted on 09/03/2002 5:00:19 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
A long time ago I saw a book that claimed that modern man originated in California, 200,000 years ago, and migrated west to the various places around the world where he is now found, including Africa. It's not a popular idea, but finding old bones out there doesn't seem so surprising in light of that.
8 posted on 09/03/2002 5:08:14 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: Pharmboy; libertynews; Congressman Billybob; firebrand; aculeus; mewzilla
PING.
9 posted on 09/03/2002 5:08:37 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Whereas conventional dating methods likely would have required the destruction of both thigh bone fragments from Arlington Springs Woman, new techniques required less than 1,000 times as much carbon, . . .

This is an good example of a pet peeve of mine that seems to be cropping up more and more. Have you ever noticed people seem to be using phrases like "3 times less" or "10 times less" when describing a positive quantity that is less than a quantity they have just described? Of course, "one times less" the original quantity is enough to drive the quantity to zero. What people who do this really mean to say is something like "1/3rd as much," or "2/3rd's less" or "one-tenth," etc. but instead they prefer to appear mathematically challenged ("innumerate").

My peeve here does not begin to address the other mathematical ambiguity from this article that says "less than 1,000 times as much" carbon; namely, do they mean they used 1/1000th as much carbon as before, or something like 995 times as much carbon?

Sorry about the rant . . . (interesting article, though).

10 posted on 09/03/2002 5:09:10 PM PDT by stayout
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To: RightWhale
Calico: A 200,000-Year Old Site In The Americas?

George Carter says some of the oldest human archaeological sites in the Americas are under the campus of U/C-San Diego and the Naval Observatory in the same area. (He could not stop them from covering them over)

11 posted on 09/03/2002 5:15:04 PM PDT by blam
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To: RightWhale
Can they tell much from a kneecap besides age and species?

Of course they can, such things as if they played soccer and what position ;-)

12 posted on 09/03/2002 5:20:07 PM PDT by varon
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To: stayout
"Sorry about the rant . . . "

I had a Czech engineering technician who would go ballistic anytime I would say something like, "I need a 110% effort on this project."
Vojteck, is that you?

13 posted on 09/03/2002 5:21:56 PM PDT by blam
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To: stayout
It is ten times easier to adopt what one cannot change.
14 posted on 09/03/2002 5:22:21 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: blam
Bones off coast may date back 13,000 years

The finding on an island off California supports the notion that the first humans in America came by boat

Monday, July 5, 1999
By Richard L. Hill of The Oregonian staff

Three human bones found 40 years ago off the Southern California coast may rewrite the history of the Americas.

Recent radiocarbon dates indicate they are about 13,000 years old. If confirmed, that would make them the oldest remains ever found in North America.

The bones -- two thigh bones and a kneecap -- were found in 1959, buried 30 feet deep in the side wall of Arlington Canyon on Santa Rosa Island in the Channel Islands off Santa Barbara. Phil C. Orr, who was curator of anthropology and paleontology at the Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History, discovered them.

The finding adds support to the theory that at least some of the first humans who came to the New World may have arrived by boat rather than by a land route.

John R. Johnson, current curator of anthropology at the Santa Barbara Museum, where the bones are stored, said Orr was interested in the pygmy mammoths that had become extinct on the Channel Islands at the end of the last ice age.

"Phil was trying to prove that their extinction was no accident -- that humans were out there hunting the mammoth and roasting them in pits," Johnson said.

Orr, who died in 1991, was surveying mammoth bones on the island when he saw a human thigh bone poking out from the side of the canyon. A closer examination revealed the other two bones.

Johnson said Orr, who called his discovery "Arlington Springs Man," obtained a radiocarbon date of 10,000 years from charcoal in the same soil layer that contained the bones. But because of questions about the date's accuracy, he removed the block of earth that contained the bones, wrapped it in plaster and placed it in a museum storage room.

"Phil realized what a stupendous find it was," Johnson said, "so he did the smart thing by archiving that block of earth with the remains for that future time when dating techniques would improve."

Johnson and Don P. Morris, an archaeologist with Channel Islands National Park, recently sent a minute bone fragment to Thomas W. Stafford, a research geochemist who runs the Stafford Research Laboratories in Boulder, Colo., who came up with the 13,000-year-old date.

The researchers also determined that Arlington Springs Man actually is Arlington Springs Woman. They estimated from the length of one thigh bone that the woman was about 5 feet 1 inch tall.

Johnson said field work at the discovery site might provide more information. "Once there is a series of radiocarbon dates obtained in the strata above Arlington Springs Woman, it'll give us more confidence in the dates we have," he said.

Discoveries of such ancient remains are rare. The oldest previous skeletal remains found in North America were those of "Buhla." They were found in 1989 in a gravel quarry near Buhl in south-central Idaho. Only about half of her was recovered, as her pelvis and other lower-limb bones apparently were lost in a rock crusher. Radiocarbon dating put the remains at 10,675 years old.

The oldest remains found in Washington or Oregon are those of Kennewick Man, a virtually complete skeleton found in July 1996 on the banks of the Columbia River in Kennewick, Wash. A radiocarbon date determined the remains to be about 9,300 years old; further testing is planned.

(If the 13,000 year old date holds up, this would be the oldest human skeleton found anywhere in the Americas, North and South. Luzia is dated at 11,500 years old.)

27 posted on 12/17/01 10:26 PM Central by blam

15 posted on 09/03/2002 5:34:37 PM PDT by blam
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To: tet68; Ditter; vannrox; Citizen Tom Paine; DreamWeaver; Bahbah; Alas Babylon!
PING.
16 posted on 09/03/2002 5:37:12 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
This is great...blam,you have been on a roll...keep it up!
17 posted on 09/03/2002 5:49:03 PM PDT by ruoflaw
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To: RightWhale
"A long time ago I saw a book that claimed that modern man originated in California, 200,000 years ago"

Hahahahahahahaha!

18 posted on 09/03/2002 5:52:29 PM PDT by BlessingInDisguise
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To: blam
Great stuff. Thanks for the ping.
19 posted on 09/03/2002 6:10:21 PM PDT by Pharmboy
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To: blam
Thank you for the ping!
20 posted on 09/03/2002 6:12:26 PM PDT by vannrox
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To: BlessingInDisguise
Oh, them, yeah....they were the Lemurians. They lived and Actually came from the continent of Lemuria, a counter part to Atlantis (Numenor?)only in the Pacific.
The decendants now live under Mt. Shasta.

21 posted on 09/03/2002 6:14:02 PM PDT by muleskinner
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To: blam
"The oldest remains found in Washington or Oregon are those of Kennewick Man, a virtually complete skeleton found in July 1996 on the banks of the Columbia River in Kennewick, Wash. A radiocarbon date determined the remains to be about 9,300 years old; further testing is planned."

I believe that testing also conjectured that Kennewick man was a Caucasian. I ftrue, this theory would seriously compound all thought on the origin of man in this hemisphere.

22 posted on 09/03/2002 6:14:53 PM PDT by yooper
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: BlessingInDisguise
Earlier Than You Think. Dr George F. Carter
24 posted on 09/03/2002 6:21:56 PM PDT by blam
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To: RadioAstronomer; longshadow; PatrickHenry
Ping!
25 posted on 09/03/2002 6:23:57 PM PDT by Aracelis
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To: blam
Remember the STNG episode where Jean Luc was trapped in the past and they found his skeleton in the future?

That sure looks like him.
26 posted on 09/03/2002 6:30:31 PM PDT by chaosagent
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To: yooper
"I believe that testing also conjectured that Kennewick man was a Caucasian. I ftrue, this theory would seriously compound all thought on the origin of man in this hemisphere."

Kennewick Man (Related to the Ainu/Jomon, 10,000 Ainu reside in Japan today)

27 posted on 09/03/2002 6:32:56 PM PDT by blam
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To: JudyB1938; crystalk; LostTribe; #3Fan; d4now; ValerieUSA
PING.
28 posted on 09/03/2002 6:40:22 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
a bump for blam
29 posted on 09/03/2002 6:40:49 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: carenot; Alkhin; bok; yoe; Junior; wasfree; DensaMensa; stumpy; arthurus; Ernest_at_the_Beach; ...
Comments?
30 posted on 09/03/2002 7:17:23 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Strange. I don't remember hearing of George Carter. Rather amusing that they wouldn't listen to him, but gave all ears to Leakey, when they were offering the same type of evidence.
31 posted on 09/03/2002 10:54:00 PM PDT by JudyB1938
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To: RightWhale
A long time ago I saw a book that claimed that modern man originated in California, 200,000 years ago.

There was a time when all new fads started in California.

32 posted on 09/03/2002 11:10:22 PM PDT by #3Fan
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To: blam
I had a Czech engineering technician who would go ballistic anytime I would say something like, "I need a 110% effort on this project."

I have to admit that that is a peeve of mine too. :^)

33 posted on 09/03/2002 11:12:19 PM PDT by #3Fan
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To: blam
What we need to do is send a spacecraft through a wormhole to a distance 13,000 light years from the earth with a really good telephoto lens to take a detailed picture of the earth as it appeared 13,000 years ago, and then send it back throught the wormhole to see who was where. :^)
34 posted on 09/03/2002 11:17:22 PM PDT by #3Fan
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To: blam
Thanks for the heads up...Fascinating article, as usual from you...thanks.

Will read later in day...

35 posted on 09/04/2002 5:21:05 AM PDT by DreamWeaver
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To: blam

36 posted on 09/04/2002 5:51:45 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: blam
Alas, no. But it is nice to know there are kindred spirits out there.
37 posted on 09/04/2002 6:56:32 AM PDT by stayout
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To: blam

Sprit Space Man, in syndication.
38 posted on 09/04/2002 7:01:35 AM PDT by steveo
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To: steveo
Re: your post #38

Spirit Space Man is, without a doubt, related to Kennewick man. Strong family resemblance!

39 posted on 09/04/2002 7:18:31 AM PDT by steve in DC
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To: blam

Mmmmmmm... roasted dwarf rhino

40 posted on 09/04/2002 7:37:24 AM PDT by GraniteStateConservative
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To: blam
Apparently gender too. Don't expect to see a facial reconstruction of this one. lol

But she probably had a killer tan.

41 posted on 09/04/2002 8:02:18 AM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: blam
I would sincerely be interested in what lies under the ocean all along the West and East coasts. During the last glaciation, sea levels were almost 300 feet lower than today. If people were moving down the coasts, it seems that most of their campsites were close to the beach, and now, therefore, underwater.

I heard about a dredging in British Columbia that picked up some stone axes, etc, from the bottom of a channel/sound. What more goodies lie beneath?

42 posted on 09/04/2002 7:13:19 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Alas Babylon!
"During the last glaciation, sea levels were almost 300 feet lower than today."

300-500Ft, most accept 400ft.

"I heard about a dredging in British Columbia that picked up some stone axes, etc, from the bottom of a channel/sound. "

Yup. That was something. They calculated where human settlement would most likely have been during the Ice Age and went dredging there. Amazingly, they found human artifacts.

I have some 7,000 year old wood dredged from Santa Rosa Sound in Florida that was once part of a coastal forest.

43 posted on 09/04/2002 8:17:16 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
i think the los angeles times owns newsday.
44 posted on 06/22/2003 12:16:11 PM PDT by liberalnot (what democrats fear the most is real democracy. /s)
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To: blam
i never did understand the clinton administration's bulldozing this site.
45 posted on 06/22/2003 12:17:47 PM PDT by liberalnot (what democrats fear the most is real democracy. /s)
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To: stayout
A good read on innumeracy...

200% of nothing

46 posted on 06/22/2003 12:29:54 PM PDT by Axenolith (<This space for rent>)
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To: liberalnot
"i never did understand the clinton administration's bulldozing this site."

It was the PC thing to do. Wouldn't want any more evidence supporting this Caucasian looking guy. Makes the natives mad.

47 posted on 06/22/2003 12:55:53 PM PDT by blam
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To: Alas Babylon!
"I heard about a dredging in British Columbia that picked up some stone axes, etc, from the bottom of a channel/sound. What more goodies lie beneath?"

Yup. I read about that too. They picked what seemed would be a good human occupation site and then went dredging. Bingo!

48 posted on 06/22/2003 12:59:36 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Spirit Cave man...
Looks very much like Jean-Luke Picard, (as does Kennewick
man).


What may be the oldest pre-Clovis site, Cactus Hill in Virginia, has many tools, few bones. ~15,000 yrs old.
49 posted on 08/29/2003 3:49:16 PM PDT by edwin hubble
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To: blam
sea level 300-500 ft. lower.

The continential shelf off the mid-Atlantic states today runs 60 miles out to sea. Much of it is the submerged coastal plain, the '20 fathom flats' off Virginia. The 'edge' near Norfolk Canyon would have been ocean-front property 20,000 years ago.

The Chesapeake Bay was then a shallow valley of the Susquehanna river, running another 60 miles out to the ocean through the forests. Incidentally, some of these forests (stumps) are uncovered by storms along the shore.
50 posted on 08/29/2003 3:55:28 PM PDT by edwin hubble
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