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The one group of Jewish-Americans who endure more religious bigotry than any other group, are Jews who believe in Jesus as the Messiah. They are called Messianic Jews.

Liberal Christians are too cowardly and PC, to support the religious rights of this persecuted minority.

The New Testament calls on us to preach the Good News to all of the world. If the gospel of Christ is good enough to be preached to Hindus, Moslems and Buddhists, why not to our Jewish friends and neighbors?

The attempts to frustrate missionaries who preach the holy message of Christ, is nothing more than religious bigotry.

1 posted on 09/15/2002 5:20:46 PM PDT by jstone78
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To: jstone78
Disclaimer, I'm an atheist.

The Torah speaks nowhere about a 'second coming'. The Messiah is supposed to do his work as soon as he comes. It's been 2000 years, and no messayaroony miracles in sight... You can see why the Judeans are sceptical.

2 posted on 09/15/2002 5:32:09 PM PDT by CanadianFella
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To: jstone78
So, the Catholic church, which seems to be recognizing the validity of Judaism and is pointing away from proselytizing Jews is therefore guilty of anti-Christian bigotry? Wow.
3 posted on 09/15/2002 5:32:51 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: jstone78
There have been dozens of these threads on FR over the years.

The extreme vast majority of Jews, like most people, just want to be left alone, thank you.

There are dozens of historical examples where proselytizing begat pogroms. These episodes and that pattern are a part of Jewish history that leads many Jews to fear such activity.

Now, I am NOT repeat NOT accusing these folks of doing anything other than carrying out the Lord's will as they see it.

But please have some sympathy for a people who've seen this all before (many times) and simply want to be left alone.

4 posted on 09/15/2002 5:35:52 PM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: jstone78
The attempts to frustrate missionaries who preach the holy message of Christ, is nothing more than religious bigotry.

Maybe they feel like many do about Jehova's Witnesses pestering them all the time.

5 posted on 09/15/2002 5:41:04 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: jstone78
Let me put this another way.

How would you like it, if the homosexual community made it a practice to gather in large numbers in your neighborhood, and handed out pro gay literature to everyone they saw? Since this would undoubtedly go against your beliefs, you might not like this.

Well, the Jews, just might view the 'Jews for Jesus' crowd in the same light. Understand now?

7 posted on 09/15/2002 5:46:08 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: jstone78
Believers need to fervently intercede for this event that many will coming to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus.

Maranatha!
10 posted on 09/15/2002 5:52:38 PM PDT by ru4liberty
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To: jstone78
You have to wonder how pissed off certain rabbis would get if someone coined the phrase Jesus Evangelical Worship Society. You know, J.E.W.S. The members could even be Jesus Evangelical Worshipers, so when someone asks they would be a J.E.W.

I think that would piss them off or make a bunch of people laugh.

11 posted on 09/15/2002 5:54:14 PM PDT by Centurion2000
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To: jstone78
Most people don't care much for "in your face" behavior, no matter who the source of it is.
12 posted on 09/15/2002 5:54:28 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty
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To: jstone78
Saying that Jews must accept Jesus now or go to hell is also religious bigotry and totally against what the bible says about it.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Whip out your Strong's concordance and look it up. There are many more scriptures to prove my point.

19 posted on 09/15/2002 6:03:28 PM PDT by mfulstone
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To: jstone78
One God. One morality. Decency toward others. Deed more than creed.
24 posted on 09/15/2002 6:09:47 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: jstone78; All
I do apologize, but I think the entire point is being missed. Israel and America are in a fight against Terrorism. My support for Israel or Jews isn't a political one, but of the Christian background from which I was raised. Jews for Jesus has the right to exist. However, they don't have the right to force their beliefs on anyone. I'm not stating that they are, but those opposed to their "preaching" can always close the door or ignore them. We still have that right in America.

I pray for the Jewish community during these days and I pray that God will protect them as well as Israel. May God protect America and keep all her citizens free from tyranny.

Please remember what unites us.

32 posted on 09/15/2002 6:21:43 PM PDT by MoJo2001
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To: jstone78
Wonder what they fear? Seems like an all out war. Jews and others can continue to reject Jesus but they do it at their own peril. If they don't want to listen to truth, then don't listen.
40 posted on 09/15/2002 6:32:45 PM PDT by nmh
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To: jstone78
"Jews for Jesus have had some success in recent years. Davidson cited figures that show the group has grown from a mere seven U.S. congregations in 1975 to 478 today. There already are at least five so-called messianic congregations in Portland, according to the Web site www.missionportland.org, although Davidson identifies only three messianic congregations here."

"Davidson added that in 1973 there were an estimated 10,000 born Jews in the United States who were practicing Christians. Today, 29 years later, he put that figure at about 250,000."

My hat goes off to the Baptists. They are the ones making the most progress with the Jews.

42 posted on 09/15/2002 6:34:31 PM PDT by nmh
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To: jstone78
I'm speaking as an Agnostic Jew here, and speaking only for myself, although I've got a cousin who's a messianic Jew.

I believe that if you've accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you ARE a Christian. It seems that is the #1 requirement for being a Christian. You might be a Christian with a Jewish Heritage, but let's call a spade a spade.

Since one of the main tenants of the Jewish religion is believing that the Messiah hasn't arrived yet, I don't really see how these diverging requirements can co-exist.

On the other hand, if someone wants to paint themselves blue and call themselves a blueberry, who am I to tell them what they can and can't do?

Next, the question, what's wrong with "Jews for Jesus." Well, if you believe in "truth in advertising," see my first paragraph. Historically, as bad as every calamity that befell Jews were, the greatest danger to the continuation of the Jewish faith is intermarriage and integration into "secular society" (there's a word for it, but I just can't come up with it right now). This is a major point that is mentioned in the Bible (which the white supremecists use for decrying interracial marriage).

The fact is, that in deeply religious Jewish communities, you'll find that there's no problem with it. It's in communities where there is far less belief in their religion, and when people attemtp to get others to convert, it's taken as a direct assault on their religion.

Mark

50 posted on 09/15/2002 6:55:55 PM PDT by MarkL
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To: jstone78
prepare for the assault.

Hyperbole of the left...hardly an "assault"...but this makes it sound so much more threatening and their bigoted response more legit

54 posted on 09/15/2002 7:01:22 PM PDT by joesnuffy
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To: jstone78
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! "For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!'" Matthew 23:37-39
61 posted on 09/15/2002 7:16:24 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: jstone78; Prodigal Daughter; Thinkin' Gal; Jeremiah Jr; babylonian; Crazymonarch; f.Christian; ...
Jews for Jesus™  is not a true messianic organization.  Further it tried to trademark the name of G~d which is stinking fruit and is about filthy lucre!  The doctrine of Replacement Theology (that Christians REPLACED Jews) is false.  All holding it are boasting against the branches (Rom 11:18) and should read Romans Ch. 11 carefully and repent of it otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.  Rom. 11:22.  The oracles were given to the Jews, not to the gentiles.   Rom 3:2.

The church is awash in false doctrines and needs to repent and gets its act together and not try to "convert" the Jews to Christian apostacy.  Yeshua Ha Mashiach (the Lord Jesus Christ) is big enough to say what He wants to any Jews any day without Jews for Jesus™ and has been putting in personal appearances to them for years.  For Jews to resists Jews for Jesus™ is not anti-Christian bigotry.  It is wisdom.

This is from a Messianic homepage:  What Is Messianic Judaism -- Isn't It Just Christianity?

Messianic Judaism is Biblical Judaism with Yeshua as the Messiah. We believe that Yeshua (Jesus) was the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53. Messianic Judaism has more in common with other branches of Judaism than with Christianity in spite of sharing the belief that Yeshua was Messiah. Messianics see Yeshua as a Jewish rabbi who taught His disciples the Torah, even commissioning them to take His Torah teachings to the rest of the world. Christianity sees Jesus as one who 'did away with Torah (law)' and 'freed us' from needing to obey G-d's Word. G-d never changes nor does His Word. I believe any doctrine *not* based on a solid Torah foundation will be faulty and lead many astray. Torahlessness (lawlessness) is that old religion of hasatan, the fallen one who has tried to lure man away from G-d's instructions from day one. Hasatan has succeeded not only in drawing the  church away from Torah but also in making lawlessness even seem the godlier choice. Lawlessness is a scary deception and is a major reason why many Messianics have attempted to separate themselves from the mainstream church.

Without a solid foundation built on G-d's TaNaKh (sadly referred to as "old testament' within the church), many in the mainstream Christian churches have been teaching that the church replaces Israel in G-d's plan; many teach that the promised earthly messianic kingdom has been replaced with a spiritual kingdom for the church; most believe that obeying G-d's Holy Torah (law) is somehow useless or irrelevant in our lives -- even likening Torah obedience to "earning" the free gift of salvation. These beliefs result from interpreting the Brit Chadasha (new testament) apart from it's TaNaKh foundation. Sadly the church seems to believe it can exist apart from its TaNaKh foundation and Jewish roots. Such church teachings reflect a non-Jewish mindset and are not considered part of Messianic Judaism.

But Aren't Messianic Jews And Hebrew Christians The Same Thing?

Sadly, Hebrew Christians are Jewish brethren who have been assimilated into the mainstream church. Some may observe the Holy Days --- but their basic belief system remains that of Christianity. A Messianic Jew is one who practices Messianic Judaism -- his beliefs rest on a solid foundation of Torah. Interestingly, the two labels themselves (Messianic Jew & Hebrew Christian) show each's differing emphasis: a Messianic Jew emphasizes personal lineage: a Messianic Jew is a certain type of Jew (a Jew who happens to believe in Yeshua). Whereas Hebrew Christian emphasizes the belief system: a Hebrew Christian is a certain type of Christian (a Christian who happens to be Jewish).  Gentiles who practice Messianic Judaism refer to themselves in more vague terms, such as "Messianics" or "Messianic Believers" (terms which fit both Jewish and gentiles believers).

Then Why Do People Say Messianic Judaism Is Christianity?

Ignorance? Broad generalization? A refusal to let Messianic Judaism define itself? It is confusing when other branches of Judaism (as well as some within the church) call all believers in Yeshua "Christians" regardless of their view on Torah. More recently I have been bothered that some Christians are deciding to call themselves Messianics even though their belief system remains unchanged from that of Christianity. I only hope as more people study the Messianic Mov't, they will learn the many differences between these two very different belief systems. Messianic Judaism should the best of both worlds: True Biblical Judaism *with* Messiah -- exactly as G-d intended!

This is from the same messianic website:  We are NOT Jews for Jesus
Shalom Chaverim,  Let me begin by stating that this site is not affiliated with Jews For Jesus. We probably need to define what we mean by "Messianic" since many consider Jews For Jesus a Messianic organization. I consider Jews For Jesus a Christian organization. Moishe Rosen, founder of Jews For Jesus, is a Christian missionary, schooled in a standard bible college and not trained as a rabbi. The Jews For Jesus organization has worked diligently teaching Jesus to the non-believing Jewish people, but it is Christianity being taught and not Messianic Judaism (in spite of JFJ efforts to make the two terms synonymous). I would like to see evangelism to the Jewish people which includes teaching Torah observance.

I see the Messianic Mov't as a return to Biblical Judaism, removing 2000 years of non-biblical teachings and restoring Torah observance to the body of believers. It seems too much effort is going into trying to bring down the Messianic Mov't and turn into just another Christian denomination, I find that sad. And those who protest this Christianization are called divisive. If you remove the elements that set Messianics apart from Christianity, you lose what drew people to the truth of Messianic Judaism in the first place.

I think Christianity is threatened by our return to Torah truths and by our refusal to tolerate the pagan influences that have become a part of Christian doctrine. The Messianic emphasis on Torah is taken as somehow undermining the work of Yeshua. And our rejection of pagan influences is taken as judgemental, as causing strife within the body of Messiah. But Scripture tells us to "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Sha'ul did not teach us tolerate false doctrines --- yet Christianity asks that for the sake of "unity" Messianics should overlook these differences and be a 'team player. That's not what we are called to do.

 Would Your Church Allow You To Be Like Jesus? -- [MUST READ!]
63 posted on 09/15/2002 7:19:36 PM PDT by 2sheep
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To: jstone78
Give me a break.

The defining difference between a Jew and a Christian is that the Jew does not believe Jesus was the Messiah. The Christian does.

Calling oneself a "Jew for Jesus" is similar to calling oneself a "Christian against Jesus." Or perhaps, to illustrate the point a with a more appropriately offensive concept, imagine a sect calling themselves "Christians for Satan."

If "Christians for Satan" were a real but small group and they were proseletyzing in your community how would that make you feel? Revolted? That's pretty much how the Jews for Jesus make the Jews feel.
87 posted on 09/15/2002 9:27:57 PM PDT by ReadMyMind
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To: jstone78
I'm not sure how I feel about this proselytizing. It is the duty of Christians to share the Gospel with others. But I loathe "in your face" proselytizing by anyone at all, and do not consider it Christian at all.

But, if the Jews approached are Jews who've pretty much left the practice of Judaism......perhaps the proselytizers are doing Judaism a favor by encouraging rabbis to reach out to these who've fallen away from their faith.

Considering the assault on Christians that is going on around the world, and always has gone on, I do think it a bit much to say to Christians "but you just have to understand our history of persecution." Christians are persecuted everywhere all the time in this world, including the U.S., thank you.

Having said all that, I think that Christians proselytize more effectively by the way they live their lives than by preaching at non-Christians. I'm reading just now a book called Islam Unveiled (or Unveiling Islam), by two former Muslim brothers. They were converted to Christianity by Christian friends who proselytized by example their Christian beliefs....no "in your face" preaching. This, I think, is what Christ asks of us.

But when someone says "no", "leave me alone", then have the courtesy and humanity to do so.
91 posted on 09/15/2002 10:54:56 PM PDT by WaterDragon
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To: jstone78
hmmm, I wonder if the Jews who believed Jesus was the Messiah way back before his crucifiction were referrred to as Jews for Jesus? I suspect they got some pretty rough treatment. By the time Christianity was made the State Religion by Constantine they had stopped being persecuted and called things like Jews for Jesus and became Christians. Now they are back to Jews for Jesus. Nothing like reinventing the wheel over and over and over.
118 posted on 09/16/2002 2:56:20 AM PDT by wingnuts'nbolts
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