Question to Freepers

Vanity | Self

[Swordmaker]

I have a serious situation that is developing for a friend.

My friend is the single mother of an 11 year old boy in a California public school. I will call him Johnny. This youngster is quite normal. Like all boys he tends to daydream a bit. He does well in things he likes and interest him and not so well in things that don't. Johnny is polite, well spoken, and can hold very intelligent conversations.

The school told Johnny's mother they were concerned about Johnny reading ability in school. They told her that they wanted to send him to the school psychologist for "evaluation" and testing. Apparently, they believe he needs TWELVE visits with the school Psychologist to accomplish this.

Johnny's mother is afraid they are looking for a pretext to diagnose Johnny as ADHD or ADD and put him on psychoactive drugs.

His mother objected, pointing out that her son has no psychological problems, reads at home quite well (he has read all four of the Harry Potter books) and does not need medical or psychological intervention. The school insisted that he "needs" to be seen. She said "No, he doesn't need a psychologist." The school said they wanted send him anyway. They will not tell her why they want him to go to the psychologist.

While arguing with the school officials about this, being whipsawed back and forth by a couple of administrators, Johnny's mother heard one of the administrator say "He needs to address things concerning his father."

Johnny's father either was murdered or killed himself shortly after Johnny was born. He disappeared after walking out of the house one evening and his body was found a week later floating in a local waterway. Johnny never knew his father and does not know anything about the manner of his death... he just knows he died when he was little.

The mother stated that if he was to be seen by any professional, she wanted to be in the room with him, and that she intended to tape-record the entire session. They told her that was not permitted: she could not be present and tape-recorders were not allowed. She said that was "bulls**t". They said they would speak to the district's attorney about it.

A couple days later they told her she could be present... but she could NOT record anything. She would be allowed to "take notes." She also could not say anything or to raise any objection.

The school has scheduled some kind of "hearing" in just a few days.

Now, the legal questions that I hope some Freepers with legal background can answer... or perhaps some parents who have had experience with this kind of thing.

Does the school have the authority to send a student to a psychologist? Can they do so without parent assent? Can they prevent the parent from being present? Can they legally prevent the mother from recording the session?

What exactly are her rights?

I know some of you will say she needs to home school him or put him in a private school... for financial reasons neither is an option for them.

[Swordmaker]

This young mother is just barely keeping the rent paid with the social security survivors benefits and a part time job while going to college. She cannot afford an attorney. She needs to know what her and her son's rights are and how she can protect him from these busybodies.

[BlackVeil]

I cannot advise, for do not know anything about the US legal system - but I am appalled by this case. I will pray for this mother, that her rights may be respected. I don't believe in all of this ADD stuff, and putting children on drugs.

[kcordell]

Without an attorney the best she can do is refuse to have the child evaluated. Make the system present it's case for having the child tested. These people aren't used to someone standing up to them. This mother must be prepared for the retribution she and her child might be subjected to by the school system. Once these things get started they're like a snowball rolling downhill.

[Sparticus]

She might try calling the Rutherford Institute. They are a conservative civial rights organisation and often represent parents trying to protecting their children from public school officials in the courts.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't live in California so I won't hazard a guess as to what legal steps she should take.

[I still care]

Are there any parent advocates? In NY, when we had a IEP meeting, a parent advocate had to be present. Also, perhaps they would accept her taking him to their own psychologist, although maybe not, and I don't know if she could afford it.

For the record, I went through the same thing. I ended up homeschooling, and I couldn't afford it either (my husband is disabled). I bent to the pressure simply because I had the feeling I couldn't fight them. (They wanted him hospitalized.) While that went on, I got my ducks in a row, joined Home School Legal Defense, and pulled him out as soon as I legally could. They were very upset but once he was out of the school they had little power.

For the record, when I brought him in for his testing next year they were amazed at his progress, and never gave me a problem after that, which I respect.

I have a girlfriend who has worked part time for years, has several children all with learning disabilites, and homeschools. She lives on a knife's edge. Somehow she gets through day to day. I wouldn't recommend her lifestyle to anyone but it CAN be done if absolutely necessary.

I hope someone can give you more practical advice, it should probably be someone familiar with CA, in every state the laws are different.

[Auntie Mame]

If it were me, I'd simply refuse to send my child to their psychologist. She's opening up a can of worms if she lets her son into their clutches. This is a bizarre situation and I think she needs an advocate. Since I'm sure she doesn't have money for a lawyer, does she have a mother or father close by who could speak on her behalf?

It sounds like they think they've got some weak-willed single mom they can steamroll. They have no legal basis to force a parent to send their child to a psychologist. Period. If they say they're going to get their attorney to force her, tell her to tell them to go right ahead. And while they're at it, make sure their attorney cites the relevant laws and code sections that gives them the right to force students to be sent to psychologists. Hey, if she plays her cards right, she'll be able to sue them and possibly end up with some serious pocket money for all the pain, suffering and mental anguish they put her and her son through.

Also remind her, there are religious exemptions. She can spring that one on them when she's exhausted all her other remedies.

And one last thing. Have her note every single person who speaks to her about this. She needs to pull out a notebook and write down their names, have them spell their names, have them give her their titles, and their phone numbers and the address they can be reached. I suggest she be very obvious about this but very firm, whether she is speaking to them in person or on the telephone. From now on, everything is documented.

I'd tell you my school horror stories but I'm sure you don't want to hear them. Needless to say, they quit trying to pull their crap on me real fast. But you have to call their bluff and you have to be fearless.

Good luck dear lady, wherever you are. You can do it. Remember, you're a mother, a tigress, and nobody and nothing is going to come between you and your precious little boy.

[ikka]

She has the right to tape record the conversation. Even though she is not homeschooling, you might have her contact the Homeschool Legal Defense Assoc., or Focus on the Family (which offers their services via 800 numbers, and has licensed psychologists etc.). I believe either org. would be sympathetic to her and would be able to suggest a wise course of action.

HSLDA.org and Family.org are the URLs.

[Sparticus]

Here's a link with contact information for the Rutherford Institute.

[RLK]

Johnny's mother heard one of the administrator say "He needs to address things concerning his father."

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This may in fact be true. However, I would like to know how they came to this conclusion, and an answer should be demanded to this question. Was it concluded through crackpot amateur conjecture and speculation, or is there solid basis for it. I would also demand a resume of the background and qualifications of the psychologist. Schools and kids are used to train inexperienced grad students and give them opportunity to do clinical work-ups. I was sent around to schools as a graduate student. I'm not thrilled about what I'm reading here.

[Spirited]

When faced with this I pulled the child out of school,put her into a Montessori school where a man was one of the teachers and told her mother to prepare herself to homeschool because the public school system would destroy her first and never apologize.

Her classmroom "sin" was talking in third grade. Their own tests showed she aced the reading assessments, which said, therefore that they didn't know how much above 11th grade level she was reading. Yet her teacher had her "reading" third grade books aloud because she had to tend to the immigrants in class. She qualified for "gifted" but because her scores would pull up the scores of the rest of the class, guess why the teacher would not allow her to do that?

That homeschooled child finally came back to take joy in learning and started at NCState at age 16 for lab courses, Latin and math courses, maintaining a roughly 3.9 average.

As a master teacher I well knew that once they labeled her in the public school system for whatever they wanted to she would not get a chance anywhere. She had too strong a moral belief for them, etc. etc. etc. Even saying she needed psych would be damaging. I advised no-one of what I was doing, I pulled her out strait-way.

There is a website for a curriculum put together and well tested by one of the more intelligent men in the nation. It is SELF-taught. Read about it at:
http://www.robinsoncurriculum.com/

[Brytani]

Hannity had on Neil Bush tonight, discussing the over-prescription of Ridalin and diagnosis of ADD etc. Bush became involved in this project when his own son was diagnosed, incorrectly, with ADD. To make a long story short, Neil Bush has a website dealing with this problem, maybe they can offer assistance with this problem.


http://www.ignitelearning.com/home.htm

[Spirited]

P.S. The fact that I had graduate degree in Psychology did not faze that Fairfax Co., VA crowd. My credentials were better than that of the "Psychologist". They just needed another child for their numbers to justify the need for a psychologist.

[fellowpatriot]

I used to work with a woman who went throught this very same thing. Her son, who was ten at the time, made the following comment in class one day: "I wish I was dead" due to some petty problem he was having. This prompted the school to insist that my friend leave work immediately and come to a meeting with the teacher, principal and a social worker.

She was then instructed to take her son to a child psychiatrist that evening or they would call CPS and have all of her children (she has four) removed from the home. (She and her husband are from Taiwan so you can imagine their fear.)

CPS got involved when the first doctor found nothing wrong with the boy. After the first four evaluations (each with a different doctor, costing my friend roughly $400 each) they finally found a doctor that was willing to give a negative evaluation.

A court date was set and she was told that she would probably lose custody of her children. At this point, my friend, thru some contacts she had, was able to get her congressman involved. On the morning of the hearing, she received a phone call from CPS saying that the case had been put on hold - later it was dropped.

I told her that if I was in her shoes, I'd pull my kids out of that school system so fast it would make their heads spin.

She and her husband are two of the most loving and hardworking people I've ever met. Their children all excelled in school as well as many other activities that they were involved in.

I was stunned at the way they were treated. I guess the school felt that they were easy prey since they were from another country.

The irony in this is that at the same time, a little boy in Detroit was murdered by his mother because CPS wouldn't do their job. They yanked him away from a foster family that was trying to adopt him and returned him to the abusive home that he came from.

[fire_eye]

They will not tell her why they want him to go to the psychologist.

Then, she can go to the district attorney and file a formal complaint accusing them of practicing medicine without a license.

Their attempt to muzzle her can also be construed to be kidnapping, of which she can accuse them legally even if she doesn't expect the charges to stick.

The best defense is a good offense. Once the little Nazis realize that this woman is going to cause them more trouble than it's worth, they'll "Move On" to easier targets.

If she can get any pro bono help at all from a civil liberties lawyer (and I wouldn't be above challenging the local ACLU on this, asking them why they won't defend parents' rights against a Nazi school system), a lawyer can get the necessary complaints filed with very little effort - and that's probably all it would take to send the cockroaches scurrying for cover.

[DoughtyOne]

I would like to know how the subject of this boy's father came up. Did the child raise the issue, or did some idiot at the school raise the issue to "help out"? IMO these schools have a bunch of busy-bodies running around with about the same qualifications as the house psychologist in the "Mircale on 34th Street".

I'd have the child removed from the room and demand to know what the hell is going on? Tell them that you overheard a comment about the child needing to deal with issues about the dad. If the kid had never ever brought up the issue of the dad with the mom, I'd pin them down to ask who brought up the issue to screw with the kid's head.

It generally takes a psychologist wanna be about five minutes to blame every problem in a person's life on their parents. I'm betting the family farm some ding dong brought up the issue of this boy's father out of the blue with no mention from the child. Now the child may indeed have issues.

When my wife's first marriage broke up, she went to a counselor. She needed to cope with her husbands infidelity and the loss. Incredibly the counselor determined in her own mind that my wife's folks were the problem with the marriage because they never argued in front of my wife when she was growing up. Thus conflict resolution was never taught to my wife. The problem was, there wasn't an issue of conflict resolution. My wife didn't fight with her first husband. Out of the blue she found out that he'd been seeing someone else.

No matter what my wife tried to explain to the psychologist, the psychologist refused to believe that her parents weren't the problem. My wife left and never went back.

A similar thing happened to me. I've talked to others who had something similar happen to them.

Maybe this boy was depressed one day and some ding dong tried to find out why, opening up a can of worms.

Place these idiots on the defensive by finding out who brought up the issue, and if they were qualified to do so or not. The mom has a right to know all the facts before determining a course of action. I would inform the staff that if she finds out they are withholding information, she will seek legal recourse.

If the kid has already seen the campus psychologist, I'd go for the family jewels.

[piasa]

They told her that they wanted to send him to the school psychologist for "evaluation" and testing. Apparently, they believe he needs TWELVE visits with the school Psychologist to accomplish this.

This was ALWAYS the pretext in the school district in Illinois to put kids on Ritalin. Remarkably, kids determined to be good candidates for Ritalin (I know of not a single case when the 'psychologists' at the local hospital ruled otherwise) turned out to be perfectly normal once their parents went ballistic and put the kids in private school It's worth the expense and in many cases, even poor parents can make deals with some schools, particularly parochial ones, to exchange weekend work, kids and all, for education.

Amazingly, in my time we had all kids graduate from school without once seeing a psychologist or being medicated in any way- yet now in some school districts the number of kids on Ritalin and related drugs exceed the number on none.

Poor families in particular are targetted because they are the most vulnerable, more likely to be intimidated into allowing it, and least likely to object. Some very brilliant kids were suckered into this in Illinois by the offer of special ed busses to parents, who liked the idea of a bus picking up little Johnnie directly from their doorstep rather than the idea of having to accompany the kid to the bus stop in the morning to get on a regular bus. In this way many poor welfare parents, or low income single parents, were conned. Their kids pay dearly for their parent's laziness or fear.

The school districts do this because they receive more money for special ed and ADD kids from federal and state coffers than they do for normal kids. The district also receives substantial bus funding from this. It got so bad in my district that there were more special ed busses than regular ones.

And no, it wasn't Palm Beach County chad-plucking country, although it was democrat country.

If you don't think money has something to do with how your kids are treated just watch what happens when the weather is really bad. You may notice your public schools are the last to call in for cancellations (unless the locale is very hilly and slippery) while private schools are more prone to cancel. You will also notice that the school will sometimes hold half-days... keeping the kids just long enough in bad weather to collect the government cash for each kid's attendance and then sending them home. This of course isn't that obvious because cancellations aren't a daily thing, and in warm parts of the country they never happen. But in northern areas it is very noticeable.

In some cases bus drivers (illegally) warned parents about it and they were able to withdraw their kids and put them in Catholic or other private schools. The public school district raised bloddy heck but couldn't do anything once the kids were enrolled. The kids turned out to be fine professionals and ended up with better educations than they would obtain in 'ecstacy land junior high.'

It IS a racket.

[RLK]

I would like to know how the subject of this boy's father came up. Did the child raise the issue, or did some idiot at the school raise the issue to "help out"? IMO these schools have a bunch of busy-bodies running around...

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That's the same question I'm asking.

[piasa]

These schools frequently require students to keep a 'journal' and to fill out very nosey questionairs.

Students should be warned by their parents to NEVER fill out questionaires if the school is unwilling to let the parents look at those questionairs first. They were bad years ago I can only imagine how intrusive the things are now.

[RLK]

No matter what my wife tried to explain to the psychologist, the psychologist refused to believe that her parents weren't the problem. My wife left and never went back.

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Your wife made the right decision. Half the psychological/social profession is in their own nutty ruts with axes to grind or trying to apply something out of a book that is inappropriate. I'm suspicious of any of them.

[glorygirl]

a ping and a suggestion that your friend get the kid tested on her own for dyslexia. That could very well be the source of problem. Then she might be able to convince them to forget the tests if he turns out to have it.

Another suggestion --and I'm very serious about this:

Tell the mother to get to the closest Catholic school and talk with a priest or nun who is affiliated with it.

They will on occasion allow kids to enroll without paying full tuition, especially in emergency situations. This may not be the ideal solution in her mind but it would solve the immediate problem.